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"Made For This" intentionally broken to keep things 'fresh'?
The more I play this game the more and more intentionally broken survivor perks are left in the game.
After the balancing from years of DH which of course is still being used in high tier I have come to the conclusion that this game isn't balanced, perks and addons are modified to keep things 'fresh'.
Due to gen speeds killers relied on gen regression perks just to be able to have time to have a chase/a game.
Now survivors rightly stay injuried with perks that make them stronger than being at full health to rush gens and get out... well, you know... tbag at exit gates.
Do I use this perk? Hell yes, it is as broken AF!
Will BHVR actually attempt to balance this game and address the unbalanced SWFs using communications? Nope, they haven't touched them once in the name of 'balance'.
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2 words: tunneling and camping. The Devs have shown they give zero F's about that. This game is whatever the heck they want sided.
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- I'd like to mention that the dev team is trying to balance the game. All things considered they are doing a decent job if both sides can win consistently. As for broken perk introductions, sometimes its better to ask for forgiveness than permission. If something is completely broken on release, theres more attention on it. meaning there are plenty of suggestions and people pointing out its issues for the dev team to take note of. Granted they typically ignore them entirely in favor of gutting the perk as a whole, but in those few examples they do listen to out suggestions it makes a great difference. PR is a perfect example, it was really good and balanced but unfair with tunneling. After an attempted gut, the community fought back and got a super well designed perk.
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Problem is that they mentioned they had a nerf planned if MFT turned out to be too much, and it has yet they haven't dropped the hammer on the perk. At best they're ignoring an obvious problem, at worst they're intentionally letting it run rampant to boost sales.
Also I'd argue Pain Res is not particularly well designed as it discourages you from using Scourges, meaning that it's a Standalone Scourge, on top of requiring RNG to be in your favor for them to be usable in the first place, it's like Hexes but kinda worse.
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Base BT and soon to be base Deliverance?
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It’s not even basekit Deliverance. You only get it if the killer camps.
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MfT leaving untouched is compared to when they nerfed Thana quickly and reverted MoM change after nerf.
Wonder if they are the same balance team.
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Base BT is nothing though, considering that good killers will either just hit you right off the hook and chase/down you anyways or wait it out. As for base Deliverance that remains yet to be seen. But the devs have shown over and over that when there is a lot of (negative) feedback on a perk, they recently have been changing those perks quite a lot. So they probably will do so with MFT, and most probably nerf it way too much into the ground and make it useless lol. This will cause everyone to circle back to the same 10 perks they have been using since the dawn of time 😂
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Killers have Bloodlust for years, which gives them free speed. But when survivors have to use perk for weak version Bloodlust, now it's problem lol.
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if that was the case, this chapter would feature a licensed survivor. It is an original survivor. I and many others can easily get it for free.
Mikala was also an original survivor, one you can get for free. with shards. that you get in excess during events.
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DBD is the only game where side A losing 61% is considered A sided game.
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It's weird at a glance to gauge how meaningful 3% is. As a survivor, most of the time I can't even tell, and killers just ditched me most games and downed my teammates instead. As killer though, it really brings up the "is this person cheating?" vibes.
Especially against 110% killers. Small rock loops really felt like an infinite with the whole 3%, killers having a bigger collision box and can't follow as tight. I have never felt so bad for a trickster. I let the man kill me in the end to not waste the 5 cakes.
But to me, I wonder: if maps were better balanced, would the community be torn about it being op? Or would it be like hyperfocus, op on paper but not really in practice.
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pain res needs a revert back to infinite uses. what they should've done instead of making it token based is add a cooldown so you can trade hook double pain res in a short period.
a cooldown would've made pain res still viable but not as powerful compared to the absolute joke it is now.
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Well considering on a 40% escape chance the killer only has a 47.52% chance to win ( 3k or 4k).
Mathematically, the game would be a fair 50:50 with a ~42% escape chance, which would result in a ~42% chance for killer win.
...Atleast in the philosopy of of setting the killer win chance equal with each individual survivor.
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I think that's a stretch. The healing changes they made were needed for a very, very long time, they hardly popped up as problems only after the HUD was implemented.
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I may be misremembering but I think Peanits explained that it doesn’t work that way. Each escape counts as an individual win for the killer, kind of like a mini-game, if IIRC. Because survivors don’t ‘win’ or ‘lose’ as a group. They do so individually. And to balance that with killers each survivor’s individual game has to count as an individual win/loss for the killer. Basically the game is (1v1v1v1) vs 1. So the kill rate being 61% means that most killers average a 2.5-3K across their matches.
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No motivation? They've been steadily addressing longterm problems over the past year or so since 6.1.0, they'd definitely have gotten to one of the biggest longterm problems in the game. Until recently, ultra fast self healing was only the second biggest problem in the game because of map design.
I'm assuming you wouldn't make this argument in reverse- that they never would've implemented the solo queue HUD without some killer change necessitating it. As an argument, it doesn't really work either way unless you assume BHVR do the bare minimum or only favour one 'side' of the playerbase- and as this argument doesn't itself prove either of those things, it's resting on nothing and can't really be compelling.
Post edited by jesterkind on1 -
theyre just desperate to hold on to low effort casual survivors so they keep throwing free things at them
for most survivors putting effort into winning feels bad but losing feels bad too. they are trying to give these players the option to win with zero effort or thought so they stick around and buy feng outfits.
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In my opinion, I think at the end of the day BHVR is out to make money. If the game feels better for the majority side, i.e. they win more, they get stuff givin to them, they will bring in their friends who will in turn buy cosmetics and packs etc..
The survivors outnumber the killer 4 to 1. In any business you cater to your majority. It just makes business sense. As far as I'm concerned, I play the game and do the best I can, win or lose. I may not agree with BHVRs choices all the time. I still enjoy the game and chose to play it.
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What-about-ism at it's finest. First post and ignoring the original topic
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I can only see about 2 posts that actually seem to talk about "Made For This" and good points they are about 110% killers being looped around small almost infinite rocks/loops.
@EvilBarney666 mentions they'll play the game until they don't and it becomes stupid which this perk is, an additional 3% for being .... injuried.
@foods shows the business sense and why the cow is being milked dry.
What interests me is whether this perk will be broken as long as other survivor perks have been for years or they quickly nerf it.
I'm with the business comments, milk the customers then nerf it and bring out another one for freshness.. I mean balance.
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I didn't, you simply didn't get my post. I gave you 2 examples of things being ignored for YEARS and additionally pointed out that the devs don't cater to any specific side, they do/change what they want at the end of the day, regardless of it being a perk, a mechanic, a map, killer, and so on.
The fact that you added your last sentence to your OP made me initially not even want to reply to this topic because it shows that you don't quite understand/know what the devs have said over the years about what they want and certainly won't change about their game. Specifically where using communications is concerned. They want SWFs to play their game, why wouldn't they? It's the point of making a product; one that sells to as many as possible, and gaming with friends literally does that. So why the heck would they punish people for that? They haven't added comms in-game, but aren't going to punish people for using Discord and so on. What you're asking is pure entitlement and makes absolutely zero sense from a business pov.
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Dude, exactly what I was thinking.
But you know POwEr RoLE or some #########, right? 🙄 It's comical at this point.
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Ironic because I would almost think it's the killer base who wants low effort games for themselves as well.
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1st paragraph reply, I have included a link to understand what whataboutism is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
2nd paragraph is a jumble of template words which I can understand when emotion is involved and why you avoided the subject in the first place. Communication in DBD making you happy or sad isn't really relivant when we talk about balance, communications can give an unfair advantage which as pointed out has never been addressed. I should point out this is a minor comment and if confused please create a different post and tag me to keep things relevant to the main topic of this post ""Made For This" intentionally broken to keep things 'fresh'?"
Do you have anything to say about the topic?
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Whataboutism "Blood lust"
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My point clearly goes over your head, again and again. This entire topic and your comments so far have been a waste of time and space. Don't @ me. GL with your BS post :)
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Kills/escapes have never been a good indicator for how good or balanced something is. A facecamping Bubba could get 4 kills with 4 hooks, while a Huntress could get 1 kill with 9 hooks. The system would declare Bubba clearly the Winner. While those 9 hooks actually required more skill.
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Because 4K is a win? And Bubba tries hard to win? Match him against survivors who try hard to escape. Perfect!
I will say this again, I play for 7-8 hooks before start getting kill, or even leave survivor alive on purpose to toy with them with my End game build, resulting 2 kills instead of 4. No way I want to play against a multiple 2nd chances squad because I have more hook than a Bubba camping and end up 3-4 hooks with 4K.
Let the try hard play with each other.
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But is the 4k by standing in front of the hook more skilled? Or would the 9 hook with chases be more skilled?
The system is supposed to be skill based. Right now, it considers the 4k to be more skilled.
I think, basing the skill evaluation on just kills/escapes is no reflection of the actual player skill and can be manipulated to easily.
While hook based also wouldn´t be perfect, it would at least reflect the actual skill better.
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Peanits said MMR is about how hard people trying to win (kill and escape), not skill. @Nazzzak please have me the image of Peanits talked about MMR.
Alot of killers using high tier killers with high tier addon, tunneling and stack with slowdown, slug the 3rd for the 4th survivor... are those complaining about how survivors try so hard.
If I play against @Pulsar , who is try hard and tunnel me out at 5 Gens, its sure not fun for me. But at least he would not complain when other teams fight back.
I dont complain killers try hard, I just find it funny killers dont like it when survivors try equal hard on them.
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Hey hey hey, I don't tunnel out at 5 gens unless it's a scrim or against a team I know goes hard.
But yes, I enjoy competition. Stomping people gets boring fast.
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Indeed it does go over someones head, you can't teach everyone.
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The Problem with the current matchmaking is, that it doesn´t take loadouts into consideration. So, a person who doesn´t want to try hard 24/7 but only occasionally, will get matched with try hards. I enjoy a fair match. I don´t enjoy getting stomped and i also don´t enjoy stomping. At least, as killer i can adjust my playstyle, when i notice the skill level of the survivors. Usually, when i play survivor and notice the skill level, its already to late.
Sometimes i want a match that requires me to focus. Sometimes i just want to chill and complete the archives. Thats one of those moments, where i think the game needs a casual and a hardcore mode.
A 5 minute match usually isn´t fun. Doesn´t matter who "wins". Killers using high tier killers could be a coincidence, the will to win or simply a question of taste. For example, years ago i mained the original Freddy. Just because i enjoyed his playstyle.
Tunneling someone out at 5 gens doesn´t sound like fun. But then again, some people consider everything as tunneling, even when the killer tries his hardest to not tunnel (body blocking with inbuild BT comes to mind). At the end of the day, people should just have fun. If you had fun, even when you lost, does it matter that you lost? It doesn´t for me. A good chase or jump scare makes the game exciting for me.
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Oh oh ... another WhatAboutIsm...
"Made For This" ? ... what about Bloodlust? XD
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Be real about it made for this by itself isn't broken it's the stacking haste thats annoying people, survivor shouldnt be able to stack past 15% but I honestly havent had an issue with that because it requires multiple survivors off gens to pull it off properly which in turn throws the game to make it happen, if you're getting outplayed with made for this alone it's a skill issue and not only that but there are perks that can directly counter it due to the exhaustion stopping it from being active, people acting helpless on here are the same ones who have a problem with anything BHVR does it'll never change no matter what they do.
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I was merely correcting someone else's well-intentioned statement.
It also isn't broken, imo.
Post edited by Pulsar on3 -
The team most likely does try to balance things, but a lot of people give conflicting opinions, and the team pretty much has to choose who they are going to upset and who they are going to make happy. Also, it's common business practice for games to make DLC characters strong on release to get more sales early after release and to get more people talking about the game. Most perks will get nerfed eventually if they are strong, and I think this is an okay thing. Imagine if they released a new survivor that came out with 3 of the worst perks ever and nobody used them ; the game would be completely unchanged because nobody would be using these perks or the survivor, right ?
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It was also pre-nerf reworked DH, pre-nerf CoH and pre-nerf Medkits.
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"Be real about it made for this by itself isn't broken" - Yes it is. I find that survivors who become injuried are stronger with perks... how on earth should this be possible?
"it's the stacking haste thats annoying people, survivor shouldnt be able to stack past 15%" - Nothing to do with stacking, loops were designed for years/months ago for certain speeds.
" but I honestly havent had an issue with that because it requires multiple survivors off gens to pull it off properly which in turn throws the game to make it happen," - This means nothing, perhaps I have misunderstood but to get off a gen you'd have to be chased?
" if you're getting outplayed with made for this alone it's a skill issue" outplayed? Have you played high mmr without this perk? If so, imagine how it is now!
" and not only that but there are perks that can directly counter it due to the exhaustion stopping it from being active," - Lets get this right, to play against a broken perk at loops which were designed for average speed survivors ... the killer needs to use perks to cause exhaustion* (under certain circumstances)... thats your work around?
" people acting helpless on here are the same ones who have a problem with anything BHVR does it'll never change no matter what they do." - Google Huntress 110% killer on Ormond with survivors running this broken perk if you need to see helpless... no acting with Nic Cage is needed.
If you are low ranked then you only need to ask BHVR to show you it now being meta... because why would a perk that isn't broken not be meta in high tier matches?
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To be honest any game that wishes to remain relevant changes the meta from time to time, otherwise it gets boring (especially if the game has viewers that might be casual/don't play the game).
Even in games that are more competitive than DBD and maybe even more balanced there are strong stuff from time to time, and not always strong on the same lievels. Like something might be strong on a high level (see Nurse/Blight) or stronger on a lower level(I can't think of an example in DBD, so help me out, maybe certain killer builds?)
If there's stuff that is strong across all levels then yeah, it probably needs to be addressed. The question is if MFT is strong on all levels or just on higher ones. Obviously it won't stay unchanged till the end of time because of the point I made earlier (it would be boring), but if it's not a problem on all levels it might stay more than you like.
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Im on the side that thinks made for this is fine because its only active when a survivor is injured and not exhausted , but only while bloodlust is still a thing, the devs want to remove blood lust in the future, so when that happens, the perk will have to be nerfed. I only play Soloq as survivor so maybe theres a SWF tactic im not aware of.
It seems both of you forget that this is not a 1v1 game the game has be balanced around the idea that 1+1+1+1 = 1 not 1=1 and that belittling is not a constructive argument.
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I'm not at all low ranked, the only killers on the roster that will struggle against made for this are low tier bottom of the barrel and even then perk combos can ruin made for this and it's only 3% when I as a killer can stack haste with perks as well if I choose, you ask if forced exhaustion perks are my work around? Absolutely it is because I've been here since launch day of this game with 12,468 hours I've seen killer in a way worse place than it currently is and my build is constantly being adjusted for whatever meta survivors are running because thats smart gameplay and if more people took my approach made for this would stop being so effective and you would see it way less, but instead people want to ruin the new perks we get so they can sit here and cry about the same thing they always do whenever even after its changed, if it's not made for this it will be one of the next perks that come out its a never ending cycle of crying instead of adjusting gameplay or builds to compensate
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Oh... my bad!
Back on topic, Made for this will probably stay like this for a very long time. Simply because the devs base their decisions on stats. A perk that is highly attractive for survivors that want to be chased, won´t get hit hard, because the stats won´t show a high survival rate.
Just like other perks in the past.
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So? Just because it's 4 v 1 game, why killers have free haste effect which rewards them for bad play? Bloodlust was needed when we had infinities but this is not case anymore.
If 3% speed bonus is busted, then bloodlust should go too.
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The only argument i am seeing , they are saying MfT makes chase a bit longer. I mean that's how exhaustion perks works. SB, Lithe, BL and other exhaustion perks will make chase longer as well.
At this point, i am just believing people just hates anything survivors gets. Just look Cage perks. He is getting 3 meme perks but people are already complaining about them, even they are just meme perks.
I am glad BHVR is ignoring them and just looking data.
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could you please read before replying?
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Stop. DBD is not balanced around high MMR. I cannot stress this enough. If you are playing at high MMR and find yourself complaining about efficient survivors, here's a hint: Humble yourself, give people hatch, be satisfied with a 2k instead of pushing yourself to get the 4k. If you get none, so be it.
Dead by Daylight is not an esport. E-sports are boring. They cater not to the average player, but to the high skill player who plays like they're trying out for Nationals. Now, I'm sure you think that that's what you want, and that's how the game should be, but you are not the majority. The majority is the average player.
In average-skilled matches where the killer and the survivor are closely matched in terms of skill, MFT makes minimal difference. This applies to Huntress, Slinger, Wraith, Dredge, Sadako, Pyramid Head, Pinhead, Doctor, Knight, Singularity, Skull Merchant, Clown, Freddy, Spirit, Blight, Nurse.
I am, by no means, a god-looper but I do have some knowledge on how to effectively loop and chain tiles together. But I have seen people run MFT and get downed 15 seconds into chase. I personally run MFT and have found that it mainly helps me in making that ever so tiny distance needed to make the pallet. The perk is very map dependent, and heavily relies on the killer not looping efficiently.
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This kind of balancing mentality is what makes the game awful to play right now.
Just because a game isn't "E-Sports" or "highly competitive" doesn't mean you shouldn't try to balance the game to the best of your ability.
What makes games fun for most people is fairness and expressing skill. The idea that the game needs to be competitive or "E-Sports ready" is a terrible reason not have good balance in Dead By Daylight. Imagine playing any video game and feeling like you don't have a chance to win, or that chance is extremely unlikely for you, but easy for your opponent. I hate to break it to you, but having fun for most people is WINNING. Most people don't care about farming, giving hatch, being nice, and having "funny moments" unless they are brand new to the game or don't even really have their brains turned on while playing.
Regardless of player skill, DBD's entire chase gameplay loop revolves around movement speed. I personally don't think perks should ever effect movement speed because of how important the speeds of both survivor and killer are by default. With MFT equipped, you can stop potential mindgames from working at tiles due to your increased speed as survivor and completely negate what would have been a successful hit for the killer, even if just barely. Not to mention activating it's effects award the survivor for FAILURE by requiring they be injured in the first place. There is no time a survivor SHOULD EVER WANT TO BE INJURED PERIOD. From the beginning, survivors have always had perks designed around the idea of failure, while killer perks are usually designed around winning harder. The design philosophy of survivor perks is way stronger than killer perk designs because they stop potential snowballs and award survivors for making mistakes. Mistakes are needed for the killer to start pressure, so these perk designs directly counter the way for a killer to start pressure, while the killer's own perks award them for a match they were most likely going to win anyways. By the way, perks like "No One Escapes Death" and "Rancor" shouldn't exist either. Terrible designs that award failure.
How is a movement speed boost while injured "map-dependant"? So because survivors are playing poorly it is okay that MFT is one of the best survivor perks in the game right now? The problem is that even if the killer does loop efficiently, they still get nothing out of it, even if the survivor is not as efficient at looping due to the increased movement speed.
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