Killer changing tactics when the game's going poorly
I never get why survivors are so shocked when the killer decides to start camping or tunneling when they're doing badly. I just had a game where I only got my second hook after 4 gens had popped, like, of course I'm not going to continue 'playing normally' after that point, because I -need- to change it up if I'm gonna get any kills.
Now yes, it's my own fault for playing poorly that I ended up in that situation, but... why do survivors get so upset that I don't continue just hooking and running off to find someone else when clearly that didn't work for most of the game.
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If it’s at that point in the game I wouldn’t be so upset if a killer started doing that… but the point is that it’s super easy for a killer to do these things. Game isn’t going your way? Time to camp and tunnel. Survivors don’t have that option. Game not going well? Too bad, nothing you can do but press on.
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not doing well......turn on ez mode!
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If you're against survivors who are good enough to put you in such a bad situation then tunneling/camping is hardly 'ez mode'. At that point it usually relies on the survivors making multiple mistakes and even then you're not likely to get a 3k or 4k.
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To be fair survivors always have the option to just hide and locker-hop, which they often do if the killer's doing too well.
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Play however makes you happy it's a game, I wouldn't care how either side feels about it they didn't buy your game.
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It's easier for the survivors to blame the killer than admit their own failures provide the opportunity to begin with.
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Generally in games, if you do poorly you lose which then encourages the player to do better.
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I don't blame the killer, when I go on hook and see 3 gens about to pop I already mentally prepare myself for a camp 'cause I would do that if I was playing killer.
When I SWF I always tell my friends to wait until we get the unhook before finishing multiple gens otherwise the killer will come back or tunnel.
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What do you mean exactly? Low tier killers like trapper are forced to perform an extremely atrocious setup before their power can be utilised. That is not easy at all, especially against a swf. Meanwhile, if the killer camping is not a billy or bubba (or tier 3 myers, trickster, huntress), then 2 healthy survivors can go to the hook and rescue safely if they know what they’re doing. Also, reassurance is a perk, and it is literally the press of a single button. Camaraderie is also a perk, and it doesn’t even require a button press. So no, that argument is invalid.
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How is that going to help them escape though? Wait it out and hope the killer gets everyone else so you can maybe get the hatch?
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Yes.
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First of all, I’m sick of hearing about SWF. Whenever anyone wants to complain about anything they bring up SWF. 1) not everyone plays in a group and 2) even while SWF may pose a challenge they don’t rob you of your agency. Secondly, it’s EASY for any killer to camp. It doesn’t matter if you’re a Blight or a Trapper. Unless you’re an absolutely atrocious player you’re going to get a down eventually. Then all you have to do is hook and wait. I never once stated that camping can’t be countered but it’s risky to do so and very difficult unless you’re in one of those magical SWF everyone talks about. Reassurance is a great perk, but it has a timer so while it might buy you some time it won’t just make everything work out ok. Same with the other. That brings up another point: I’ve seen so many people on this forum complain about not wanting to bring a certain perk in order to counter another like, for example, Made for This. So in what world should every survivor have to bring these perks to maybe try and counter a camping killer? Even if survivors are successful in getting a player off the hook with a camping killer it almost always results in a hook trade, becoming injured, the hooked player hitting the second hook stage, the hooked survivor being tunneled and downed again, or a combination of these. And, yes, while there are ways to counter these things they are not as easy and effective as camping is in the first place not to mention the pressure it puts on survivors because they must abandon their objectives to try and pull it off. Most times the risk isn’t worth it so sometimes if survivors notice a killer camping they won’t even try to help lest they put themselves in a worse situation. If it’s closer to endgame the risk of abandoning gens becomes less severe but otherwise remains.
Lastly, no, my argument is nowhere near invalid and you didn’t even address it properly. While you tried to divert the discussion by talking about killers that may not be as good at some things as others or perks that can help you if you’re being camped the point of the matter is this: camping is easy, and it is effective. If it wasn’t why would killers resort to it? Why would so many just use it as a tactic to begin with if it weren’t? The same is true of tunneling and slugging though the latter has its own risks. The point is that if killers feel they’re losing the edge they then have a very EASY and EFFECTIVE way to bring the balance back in their favor or to at the very least ensure they get a kill. Survivors do not have that luxury. Yes, as someone else mentioned they can choose to just hide but what good will that do? Hiding won’t get you any closer to escaping. It’s entirely possible for a good group of survivors to combat a camping killer and still get an all-out, but that also doesn’t change the point.
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So you’re comparing running around the map hiding while your teammates die so you can get a “*50/50” chance at an escape to resorting to camping? No, I don’t think so. Camping is far easier and far more effective. What you’re describing for a survivor is left up to chance more than anything else, and will actually require more work as you still have to try and evade the killer.
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This will only result in MAYBE one person getting out that, which most consider a loud for Survivors. Turning around and tunneling/camping may still get zero or one kill, might just turn into a snowball of 2+. So I wouldn't really compare the two.
However I do not get mad when I see the Killer struggling and gens popping left and right that they have to resort to those tactics. Unless you just admit defeat, it will be almost impossible to come back without Survivors royally screwing up and not camping/ tunneling.
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I just had a game where a Bubba ran Dying Light, downed and camped his obsession at 5 gens then complained about Gen speeds when he lost. 🤷♀️
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I never said hiding and camping are as strong as each other, I was just pointing out that both sides have unfun things they can turn to if things aren't working out for them, and which bring them a better chance at 'victory', at least if a survivor considers a hatch escape a victory.
I do think BHVR should do something about tunnelling but it would have to wait until they make spreading out hooks actually strong. As long as 4 survivors who are all on death hook are just as capable as 4 unhooked survivors, tunneling sadly needs to remain or else kill rates would plummet.
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I only find it annoying when I’m doing an escape challenge or daily and then I’m the target of the tunneling or camping
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If killers camp at 5 Gens and win, that's more wrong than Gen speed going fast.
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I guess the point is that both camping and tunneling are very easy. Every killer can do it whenever they please and it's not like those are big brain high skill strategies. The counter on the other hand is very difficult. It takes a coordinated team effort to counter camping and tunneling, something that the vast majority of survivor players simply can't do because they're not actually all on discord (even though some killers here are allegedly facing exclusively swfs)
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Its funny that this change of tactics is bad/toxic when killer do, but when survivors start ignoring gens and other survivors to get the hatch theyre just doing the normal thing.
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Wow you truely have been caught in solo queue.
I play with a duo survivor most of the time but I would not consider myself a good survivor. Any decent random though will know how to position themselves around a hook to make sure no one takes a trade, it's rather easy and any person who has watched a survivor streamer/youtuber would know how to do so.
Unless it's bubba/billy/huntress or a killer with max stbfl than It really isn't that hard to make an unhook vs a camping killer with just 2 people.
There is nothing hard about survivor except chase, macro is far harder on killer and even then it's not very challenging. People just are not good at dbd, that's it.
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I had a game like this recently. Playing Deathslinger who I have very little practice with, was getting run around in circles. Get a down and another survivor gets way overconfident on how easily they ran me and tries to go and bait attacks, but I had agitation, so I get them down as well. Now I have two people on close together hooks which I stay near and turn into a snowball.
It's one of the things I'm looking forward to with the anti-camp mechanic. It creates an actual ruleset for how long you are allowed to camp and how near you can be when doing so.
It also surprises me as survivor in this situation when my fellow survivors just don't stay on gens. If you are at 2 or fewer, leaving the gens before getting chased just allows the snowball. Get the gens done, then mount the rescue.
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Otherwise known as SWF
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Yeah, I do play solo queue. And, no, it’s not THAT easy. It depends on the killer player and the situation. It’s far easier for the killer.
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To back you up, I'd actually suggest killers (and survivors, for that matter) switch up their playstyle throughout the trial. It's a clever way of trying to throw opponents off-guard. So long as a killer isn't repeatedly smacking a guy on the hook, then it's quite understandable that a killer will change tactics and camp or tunnel.
Granted, it's no fun for the survivor on the receiving end, but so long as there's no BMing involved then the survivor needs to understand this is not a personal attack against them and simply a tactic the killer has decided to employ.
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Yeah, that or the tome challenge where you need the gold unbroken or devout emblem (you need to escape for it). It took me at least 15 games to get the 3 I needed, due to the amount of tunnelers. No wonder the community had such a rough time getting the emblems done
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I played poorly, now i can use crutches (tunnelling and camping) and win game. That's why both of these strategies need big nerfs.
Camping will be nerfed with all upcoming changes and hopefully tunnelling is next.
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You dont have to play poorly to lose. If you're good and opponent is better. You can play well but opponent's decision is better, you still lose.
Though killers can start to tunnel and camping at any moment they want when the match isnt in their favor. For survivors if losing, you lose, there is no turning back.
You always see 'If you lose a teammate at 3 Gens, you made alot of mistake'
Yes, what I and teammate doing wrong was killer getting 1st hook at 3 Gens left, we decided to do totem and chest, didnt think killer straight up tunneled the hooked teammate out in the next 2min. We should have Gen rushed instead, and this is when killer complaining back.
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this is precisely the problem. Killer has a built in come back mechanic unlike survivor, and one that doesn’t require much thought or skill to perform, leading them to reach higher MMR brackets where to perform well they are essentially forced to camp and tunnel leading to a never ending cycle.
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Yes, there's always a chance that we could play poorly, but I'd argue that most of the time it's not because you played poorly, it's just that the team was far more efficient and skilled than you were. Playing killer is no joke, as a single mistake can cost you the entire match. A lot of the time it's not fun, but at the end of the day you have to do what you have to do to get a kill.
I'll always find it funny when survivors complain that the killer killed them. It's like, yeah, that's the point. The killer's only objective is to kill you. I'm sorry they didn't do that in a nice way, but until the devs say that kills don't equal wins, then killers will continue to do what's necessary to get kills.
Post edited by SweetTerror on3 -
If its endgame and i see you start to camp/tunnel, i know you are a loser and are admitting you lost that game.
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If I’ve ever tunneled it was purely by accident but can’t recall ever doing it. Usually if the match is going poorly I’ll just slug to assert dominance (lol) and then let someone wiggle free to revive their teammates.
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Because some survivors want the killer to just lay down and lose, not realizing their probably only in a winning position because the killer actively chose to play nice.
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Well I hope you demonstrate the same "beautiful" attitude with survivor that start to hide and lockerhop for hatch when the game goes south.
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Camping and tunneling is just an alternative form of applying pressure. The reason why some survivors get upset because of these is they need to adapt mid-game to this kind of play, yet many choose to just sit on gens or do their standard stuff, expecting a generic game where killer settles up for few hooks and all 4 end up escaping.
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Be last survivor and get free chance at 1-button escape, if that fails the gens are skipped for you.
Sure does sound like a security net or comeback, but i definitely could be wrong.
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Last survivor getting hatch is not a comeback mechanic lol, the game is already over at that point. Hatch just ensures that the game doesn’t go on for 20 more minutes.
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What in the world are you talking about? Selfish survivors who use perks like Left Behind and Sole Survivor get the smoke here all the time on these forums, mostly from other survivor players.
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I'm of the opinion that if a killer has been so utterly defeated that they need to camp or tunnel to get a 1k in endgame or even earlier to try change the tide of the game before gens are completed, that they didn't really earn anything and will never improve doing so. It promotes that DBD is a game with little skill involved compared to other games.
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I mean if they end with a 1k it's a loss and their MMR will go down. I don't think in that scenario they really earned all that much, but it at least feels a bit better than getting nothing. Plus the other 3 survivors have plenty they can do to try and save that 4th person, camping/tunneling especially at endgame is hardly a guarenteed kill after all.
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I've always assumed that doing the locker hop thing was not because the survivors wanted to win the game it's because the remaining survivors just wanted to make the killer miserable and waste their time. That is one problem that can't be solved right now because survivors if they really wanted to could just hold the game hostage until it closes
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The longer the survivor remains in the trial the more points they get for the Unbroken emblem. And, no, they really can’t. There are so many ways for killers to track survivors and maps are pretty small in their current iteration. How often do you see survivors just hiding and doing nothing vs the amount of times you see killers camping? At least half of my games see a killer at least proxy camping.
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If the killer gets 2 kills and there's still multiple gens left then the last two survivors will usually hide, waiting for the other person to get found and killed so they have a chance at hatch.
Obviously if the killer is already chasing one it doesn't matter but it's reasonably common.
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Because it's boring, unskilled and not engaging game play. If it was fun, skilled and something that requires critical thinking, it becomes interesting.
That kind of gameplay is just lame and if I wanted to be that bored I'd go stare at a wall. Hopefully now you get why. Not being sarcastic or rude fwiw.
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At 1 gen left and only 2 hooks there is no "ez mode" at this point. You play campy and try to force some altruism and a snowball or keep playing how you're playing and get the bags at the exit gate. It's called a gameplan change just like if your getting your ass kicked at half time in a sport. You switch it up or keep doing the same ######### and lose.
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Tell me what sport has a method as easy as camping?
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Not in my experiences, no. Survivors that do nothing tend to do that from the start. At some point someone hops on a gen or tries to engage in something. And, yknow what? If a killer engages in tunneling, camping, or slugging from the get-go then they’re fair game to screw around with. What goes around comes around. I’ve never seen a bunch of ppl just try to clown a killer from the beginning and if they do they usually just get slaughtered because they aren’t playing strategically.
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It's not even easy unless the killer has insta downs.
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I wouldn't find it fun to get camped, but I would understand if somebody started camping when they were losing -- it makes sense to me that you would try to use a strategy that's going to help you win.
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