Tunneling is tiring and needs to be adressed

Well, it sucks when killer goes for tunnel at 5 gens left. Some survivors deserve it tho.

But tunneling at 2 gens left is understandable imo.

Killer simple needs to get someone out before 1 gen is left, if they want to win.

Alternative is 3-gen, which is going to get nerfed tho.

There used to be less tunneling, but several perk nerfs made it simply best strategy. There is absolutely not reason to focus different survivors, it's way better to slug them and focus single survivor.

Least tunneling was during BBQ, Pop, Ruin meta imo.

BBQ made you focus different survivors, pop and ruin gave you quite lot of extra time and you also had to leave hooked survivor for them to be effective.

DS was also a thing and everyone respected it.

But all those were nerfed.

I guess killers just shouldn't do damage at all now....

What it does mean is while bHVR figures out how to address tunneling we Killers have to stomach being underpowered and that is a bad way of doing it. There is no changing that fact.

tunneling isn't an illegal move yet tho

There is nothing wrong with tunneling. Again, just because you don;t like it and it makes the game harder for you doesn't mean it's not allowed. Stop being a baby about it.

bHVR wont make it illigal.

The biggest problem right now is that the game is getting easier and easier for survivors. Instead of survivors practicing and getting better, BHVR uses some silly 50/50 ratio of Killer to Survivor wins to rate whether the game is "fair" or not, and there is a race to the bottom for survivors. They make the game easier for survivors, and then they actually think they're getting better. When really they're getting 5% speed bursts, faster gens, infinite loops, and like 10 hook states with all the easy mode perks. And my favorite part is they think they are getting better at the game.

Tunneling is here to stay - just use the infinite loops and other easy mode items they give you in the game and you'll be fine.

Slugging isn't really effective as it requires you to win 4 chases in a row. (And they still have the unbreakable meta in store, even if they completely stopped talking about it).

You exactly proved my point, tunneling is the one thing that prevents balance from happening in dbd. It's basically exactlmy as if killers, when spawning, had a button asking if they want all 4 survivors to die immediately with no effort needed from their part.

I talk from a survivor perspective but I play 50/50, it's frustrating thatr we can not have nice perks just because tunneling allows a guaranteed 4k anyway. I also feel punished as killer because since I don't tunnel, I'm not allowed to have strong perks.

I don't get the "if you fix that, there are other problems that will need to be fixed, therefore, let's not adress anything ever". Yeah, if we fix both facecamping and tunneling, there will be sluggers. Maybe. But all killers? I don't think so. Currently, during the event, I estimate approximately 1/20 killers not to be hard tunneling or facecamping (with a facecamp killer).

Is it too hard to ask to just play dead by daylight? Using the actual game mechanics?

I've noticed a trend with topics like this. 99% don't talk about balancing or making things better for both Survivors and Killers; they talk about punishment, like the Killer player has just committed a war crime and must face trial.

What people need to realise is that the choices a Killer can make, the options available to them, is an ever-decreasing thing. Everything Survivor players want to stop covers basic game-play mechanics; anti-camping is telling Killer where they can and can't stand and when, anti-tunnelling is telling them who they can and can't chase or who they're allowed to hook and when, anti-slugging is demanding someone pick up after downing even if it's the least sensible choice. It's creating a system where the choice is already made for the Killer and all their interaction involves is adhering to that choice with the best of their abilities.

Constraining the actions of Killers to the point where they're not walking on egg shells, they're walking on landmines, isn't going to fix the game. At this point, rather than advocating Killers have basic game mechanics limited or removed, Survivor mains should just start campaigning for Killer bots and be done with it. You can't program human players to enjoy playing the game in the stop-start-can-can't sort of way Survivors demand, and as they demand more and more and Killer choices become less of a choice and more conforming to choices made for them, adding bots is the only logical choice.

How do you punish tunnelling without also punishing killers who legit accidentally encounter the same survivor twice?

No one has been able to figure this out yet. Without this caveat, any anti-tunnelling mechanic becomes highly weaponised by unhooked survivors.

Survivors already bodyblock when they have unhook endurance, to force the killer to hit them. They consider it a free health state, but it's not, it's a license to tunnel. Bodyblock after unhook = "tunnel me"

There’s literally no way to address it other than doing something completely radical like making the survivors all share hook progress.

you already get a time window for a free shield and sprint burst when rescued from a hook.

there are already enough pallets and safe loops in a match to run the killer through an entire game’s worth of gen progression.

you already get 3 chances to hide/run.

like… literally the only thing they could do is make it irrelevant who gets hooked so that every survivor loses at the same time. Because in most cases it’s a skill issue or a specific loadout/playstyle that gets players tunneled out of a game.

There is a perk idea I like for anti-tunnelling that I came up with:

• Gain a token each time you lose a hook state. Lose a token each time another survivor is hooked or killed. This perk activates when you are on death hook, for each token, gain 1/2/3% haste and reduce cries of pain by 50% for 120 seconds. This perk deactivates once the exit gates are powered.

This only activates when you've been hooked, either twice in a row or at half strength just after you're second hook. It is countered by hooking another survivor, and it deactivates in the endgame so it can't stack with Hope. It can't be weaponised because it doesn't grant any kind of immunity or bonus health state or otherwise prevent the killer from taking an action, and the killer can discern you're moving faster and choose to go for someone else. It is not indefinite, so if the killer tries and fails to hook other survivors for two minutes, they can eventually come back to you. But it can also be fairly countered if the killer is running haste perks, a perk for perk.

40% escape chance is waaay fairer than 50%.

Math is funny. 40% escape chance results in a ~47.52% chance for the killer win condition (3k +4k chances) to occur.

At 50% its about 31%....

Slippery slope fallacy, often used by homophobes, for exemple, to say how homosexual marriage will lead to an end of the world scenario (spoilers, it didn't) (it's just an exemple btw, not saying anyone here is one).

"If behavior fixes this problem, it will create tons of other problems". We've had similiar reactions with every big changes. Nothing happenned in the end.

Also experience proved that behavior eventually listens to its community. It just tends to sometimes take 5-7 business years. A chunk of the playerbase will leave the game if tunneling isn't adressed. If you want to tunnel, fine, but you're gonna have to tunnel bots.

This doesn't explain how he got 47,52% chance for 3/4k if average escape rate is 40%.

I don't care about reasoning. I want to know how he got that number.

I have never liked balancing purely based on statistics. It just doesn't reflect reality if you ignore reasons behind it. It's nice tool, but definitely not primary aspect.

"Homophobes" Lol what are you on about???

I disagree - a ton of good and medium killers will leave if they continue to make the game easier and easier for survivors and losses mount for continuing to grease the squeaky, whiny wheels that are survivors.

I agree here - the stats is a poor indicator - it's just a lazy way to try and keep players interested when they don't want to push themselves to play harder. The game should be fair - every action should be counterable (albeit there are times when you have to guess what the right perk might be).

Adding pallets and windows to change the percentage is absolutely lazy. If there is a made for this which increases speed by 3% after being hit, killers should have a skill where when they chase survivors already hit and gain 3%. That's fairness.

Averages? Like the dev stats? Like they once said "on average 39% escape rate." and the forum was on fire, you mightve witnessed it.

I simply concerted "rates" and made it a game of "chance", but i used the averaged 40% esxape chance as basic. Well, the first survivor dying more often/last survivor getting the hatch may be important to note, if they werent part of the total average anyways. All survivors get a 40% chance, on average.

Also check my reply for the math. Incase you didnt see it before just up a few posts.

Its a simple cointoss , escape or killed.

But if you wanna complicate it, go for it.

Here som variables you may find useful.

F first survivor penalty ( 0.8 < F < 1)

H for a hatch bonus for the last survivor? (1 < H < 1.15)

For the 2dead cases maybe for the third survivor a penalty for hatch vilturing necause survs give up at that point? But that would only be applicable for the cointosses with the first two bein "killed".

Theres a reason i kept it simple and "on average" for all survivors equally.

The biggest flaw (and its a big one) on using 4th binomial is that you are assuming that it's a toss up if someone wins. That you can "toss a coin" (as it were) a bunch and that distribution will always be the same. That doesnt take at all into the account that instances are RIDDLED with pallets and windows constantly starting and stopping action. That the survivors loop infinitely and bloodlust sucks and never turns on when it should. Killers are barely able to go a gnats ass distance faster, giving yet more preference to an already not too hard survivor game, etc. The survivor benefits are endless.

Dead By Daylight - Always a Pallet or a Window When You Need One!™