Why lightborn is problematic

Yeah and there is one problem with this. 1. You have no data to demonstrate that LB users actually have a leaning deficit. 2. So it seems to only be an assumption that LB users will be bad at that gameplay, but never how much, like how big a problem is it?

David we had this discussion before on this forum now, evaluating the reason and logic behind perks isn't a comparison of the two perks. I am sorry that you see it as a comparison, but really its about why they are there and I honestly don't understand why I have to defend myself twice being questioned by you.

Dare I say its an invitation to think about why things are in the game, not a comparison. Again, mentioning two things ISNT always a comparison. But don't worry ill continue to correct you, should you bring the concern of yours to me again.

I did read your entire post and responded to the points you made with counter arguments.

Justifying genrushing because someone uses Lightborn is a weird thing to do. The use of one doesn't really make a difference to the other, teams that actually engage in actual gen rushing were never concerned with whether or not they could get blinds in the first place. Blinds don't get gens done, doing gens gets gens done. If you actually read what I said, I addressed the fact that they should be addressing root causes with reasonable changes that would be healthier for the game. I also said I'd consider a change to Lightborn's function if those were the changes made, but I honestly do not believe Lightborn is problematic. It's not majorly consequential in the majority matches played and often doesn't really aid the killer in a way that "robs" survivors of earned wins.

Like the only the times I've really felt like Lightborn in anyway was carrying me is when I faced people who wanted blinds so bad that they just refused to really do anything else even though it was very apparent that I couldn't be blinded. When people actually use their heads and realize that Lightborn is in play they use different tactics such as bodyblocks to buy time or corral my movement if a usable pallet is near by. So they more or less still get what they want which is a save cause they were able and willing to adjust to the situation. We have a back and forth engagement whereas flashlights aren't really all that back and forth. It either works or it doesn't and once you learn the non-negotiable animation locks and timing it just becomes a "It just works".

The community complains about gen rushing, but that has nothing to do with whether or not they are attempting flashlight saves.

You're trying to stick to different issues together through a causal link that doesn't exist. Getting rid of lightborn isn't suddenly going to add inefficiency to the survivor objective getting done as considering how the optimal way is for everyone to split up and one man gens in most situations you're already dealing with around two people doing gens while the other two are engaged in something else. Also the complaints of "gen rushing" are often not referring to true genrush scenarios, but more of a statement how erratic gen times can as depending on the situation you can cut almost 30 seconds off of 90 second repair. I have entire rant about the lackluster and erratic nature of generators and their timing, but it's not pertinent right now.

I can tell you from my experience Lightborn having existed since basically day one and existing in it's current form since patch 5.0.0 it has no impact on whether players bring flashlights or any other blinding sources into a match. !) Because survivors don't know you have until they fail to blind you and 2)A lot of people who use it still go through the motions of doing camera tilts most of time so it isn't obvious that someone's using until they go for blinds during animation locks. Like for as many of us that use there are there are also far more killers who don't and thus if you're more often going to be able to use flashlight than not use it.

Now I'm throwing a generalities around because I play on NA East cause that is where live and typically my experience has been that my server is extremely blind heavy so I've never seen or heard about anyone being super dissuaded from bringing flashlights. Also I addressed your statement about paying attention to your surroundings earlier. You can do that and should do that, but that isn't a total shutdown of a situation like bodyblocking. It's very common for people to sprint up and get into your way AFTER you've been very careful to check surroundings. Depending upon what your surroundings at the time and how many people show you can easily find your sorta boxed into pathing that takes more or less either a hook further away than you intended forced to path through an area you typical wouldn't want to like say through a pallet. I've actually had a couple teams where people would obstruct my path enough because DBD is a game where bigger bodies can be weirdly hindered by smaller bodies that I basically got forced into a pallet that threw down early which ended up with me carrying someone and being pinned against the downed pallet.

At that point you can only really just drop them or have them wiggle off your shoulder. Now that's a edge case that has been super rare for me. Though what is more common is that I scare someone off, check my surroundings and their clear, but the person I need to pick up has moved to a pallet if it nearby or just moved enough that i have to waste time finding them which allows the other team mate to reset. Not complaining about it as that sort of layered point counter point gameplay I enjoy out of DBD. That stuff is genuinely what makes the game enjoyable, personally for me flashlights have never been particularly interesting to me even when I play survivor. I prefer going for body blocks in a limited capacity and I usually do other things like cleanse or boon totems.

You know what? Fine, remove Lightborn, but then ALSO reduce the angle from which you can be blinded. I know how to avoid being blinded, but the times they manage to blind me, its nearly always from OUTSIDE MY POV! I don't even SEE the one blinding me on my screen, but still the blind comes through. That is the stupidest thing regarding blinds in this game. And thats exactly why I will run Lightborn with two or more flashies, to not fall victim to such bullshit blinds.

Most killer TR based perks

Beast of Prey

Coup De Grace

Blood Warden

Brutal Strength

Perks that block windows

Basically every gen regression perk that isn't tied to a scourge hook or hex totem

Trap Totems because they exist to be destroyed to begin with so all the perks that help survivors with totems only aid the killer in getting what they want.

Perks that affect attack and action speeds.

Literally almost every killer perk is designed to not have a direct 1 to 1 perk counters.

The few that exist are non trap hex totems, perks that inflict exhaustion as Vigil exists to counteract them specifically, but it isn't a hard counter. Aura reading perks are temporarily counted by Distortion when the game doesn't just eat the tokens.

Most killer perks aren't designed to have full out counters on the survivor side instead opting for soft counter perks or player derived counterplay strategies.

Also the direct counter to medkits honestly isn't overwhelming presence these days. It's Sloppy Butcher though both perks are really only soft counters to medkits rather than making them completely non viable. Killer perks are more targeted on single aspects and thus are made somewhat strong to reflect that limited usability scope.

I was specific in the way I wrote my response, you're in a hurry to disagree with me while I did make it clear that most killer perks do not have direct 1 to 1 PERK counters and that the design of killer perks is focused around allowing for soft counters, counters that reduce the effect or temporarily block it but not permanently, and player derived counterplay strategies.

You're showing me that you read things, but don't comprehend them in full or you're skimming what I write, but not actually paying any attention.

You can attempt to sidestep to make me look foolish, but your original comment was definitely drawing a comparison. You brought up Windows being an incentive to not learn to plan an escape route as a comparison to the OP stating that Lightborn incentivized killers to not learn to avoid blinds.

From the dictionary: comparison - A consideration or estimate of the similarities or dissimilarities between two things or people.

In your case: comparing how two different perks that do different things may both be used as a crutch (or a way to avoid getting better at something in the game.)

If you were, indeed, attempting to question why something exists then you still drew a comparison by using the Lightborn argument as a bridge to discuss a similarity between two dissimilar things.

I'm not trying to make you look foolish, that is all your own doing by pretending you know what Im saying better than I.

I don't know how to cut this out better for you than the following:

Not at all, I need to do a comparison for it to be a comparison (its sorta in the name), but there is no evaluation of their qualities that being differences or similarities. It isnt a consideration or an estimate either. Its is what is called, an identification.

What that part of the comment is an example of another perk, and yes its definitely two things, it isnt a comparison yet until I start comparing them. However you will notice Im not speaking of which ones are better or worse. Im just identifying it.

Im pinpointing a quality they have. So I can do a comparison??? No, that is irrelevant to my discussion, which is why I dont actually start comparing them. Instead I continue with questioning for further evidence and asking towards the reason for both of them.

You might say, isnt that a comparison of the two? No it isnt cause I am not doing any evaluation, contrast, collation, juxtaposition, differentiation, weighing up or balancing between the two. If it was then sentences like would be comparisons.

• "Grab the boxes"
• "Where are you guy's mother?"

Clearly you can talk about quality that two or more objects have without it being a comparison, which I think is clearly the case when I said it and then asked a follow up question with identification. However even when corrected by me, the person who made the point, I thought up the thought, you still come back telling me its a comparison, like what's the goal here, telling me what I think?

You honestly don't and you don't want to take a correction when I give you one.

Funny that you mention Distortion, which itself is an absolute counter to Lethal Pursuers initial aura.

Honestly, I find it a bit hypocritical to complain about Lightborn disabling the use of an OPTIONAL item, when survivors can totally deny certain killers their power. Most notably with Plague (not cleansing), but also with Trapper (calling out traps to disarm), Hag (aggressively triggering traps), Singularity (EMPs). You would say it's smart play, and comes with tradeoffs (being broken the whole time against perk). But thats also with lightborn: When you struggle against blinds, it may be smart to equip LB to have a better chance altogether. And it takes away one perk slot (tradeoff).

I don't think a token approach would work, btw. Esp with a M1 killer on maps with super safe pallets (the game), which you have to break, survivors would make you lose tokens extremely fast, possibly to a point were you don't have any tokens left for pickup. But pickup is the situation where you need it the most.

Comparison is clearly just a bigger word than you believe.

If you wanna define everything as a comparison, you enjoy yourself, Keep me out of private notions.

Not sure why Lightborn is an issue, the Killer is essentially sacrificing a perk slot to counter an item. If it causes a “learning deficit”, that’s on them and not you, why do you care?

Even if the majority of the playerbase uses Lightborn and are “garbage”, they aren’t breaking the rules of the game by equipping the perk, if anything it feels more like you’re upset about getting countered by the perk and are trying to gaslight players into not using it.

If people want to be bad at the game, let them be. Who are you to judge?

Players have been complaining about the blinding animation for years. It hasn't been changed. But I'd also point out the way it is often used by teams to bully killers with bodyblocking etc. Lightborn is just good self-care.

I look at the game like this, if something I'm doing doesn't work when it should just don't worry about it. Like if I try to blind someone at a pallet and they don't react the way I expect I can assess that either I messed up the blind or they can't be blinded. Now I know I can mess up blind timing on saves, but I can't really do that on most other animation locks. The only thing a killer has that can prevent blinds is Lightborn and I understand how lightborn works. So for me, I am aware that now I'm being wallhacked and thus rather than be upset about my flashlight being useless I see it as game where I can mess with the killer.

My blinds don't pose a threat, but I can be aggressive in getting them to waste time chasing me because they can see my aura meaning I'm easier to keep track of. I also don't place a huge value of trying to save as many pallets as possible so I drop them very readily so the killer needs to deal with it unless they have a power that trumps pallets. I mainly play killer and I feel I have a good idea of how the average killer player's gonna respond to situations so when I play survivor I tend to do things that I know will make killers chase me longer than they should. So when I encounter lightborn as a survivor I don't find it a problem, but just an easier way to draw the killer into a bad extended chase.

Getting blinds and saves are fun, but if it isn't possible I don't suddenly not have fun because there is more ways to get value outside of the primary function.

No matter what people say there's always a possibility flashlight saves are 100% unavoidable.

There are many times where checking everywhere would simply take too long or you don't know what perks are running and they can get in flashlight save range faster then expected, you could be pressed for time so you don't have time to check and there could be no walls nearby, locker checking is just a long animation and you could be surrounded by them, there's probably some other examples that I can't think of rn.

I'm not saying run lightborn, unavoidable saves are pretty rare, but it's certainly not a skill issue

Sorry if this comment is horrible to read I've re organized it a bunch lol