Hypothetically, Would anyone be highly against removing Toolbox's ability to fix gens faster?

Items should remain useful. We don't need another "item pass" like the medkit one that made all the medkits and addons bad and boring (except for the insta ones which have remained the best addons since forever)

Overall this is something that i think should be done.

Either:

A) Gen speeds need to be normalized, such that gen progression, and gen regression things are very small, thus making them not "required" to play

B) Gen progression should be removed from the survivor side, and gen defense, should be made like exhaustion is now, where killers can only take 1 gen defense perk, and they are all normalized to extend gen repair times by roughly the same over the course of a whole match, just in different ways. Then we just decide how long we think a gen should take, and make it take say, 10-20 seconds less than that, and have every gen defense perk extend the total of 5 gens of time by 60-120 seconds. That way you can pick whatever flavor of gen defense you want, but now you'll have 3 perks to work with. And survivors can expect on average gens will always be roughly the same amount of time over the course of a whole match, rather that it being purely dependent on the killer's or their perks.

If toolboxes worked like BNPs and maybe just made it so like X amount of time you repair, using X amount of charges per second, that progress cannot be regressed, then I think toolboxes would be fine.

Right now I only use them to get Blast Mine quicker, but it's not that big of a fuss for me.

My bloodweb is already cluttered with near-useless items, add ons, and offerings so why not just go ahead and nerf the only good item we still have. Then I can farm BP for no discernible reason.

I see people in this thread that'll make them useless but I get sabo saves/ lose a hook to a sabo saves all the time? It won't make them useless at all

I always think that a 99 Gen can regressed to 0 is why Gen regressing speed has to be low. Im up for x3 the speed if Gens have check point at 33 and 66 that cant be regressed further than than.

And certainly combined with the total regressed Gen time can happen in a match. 180sec perhaps. Then Im also up for Toolbox removal.

Not a bad idea actually. Make them function similarly to how the new BNPs will.

Instead of increasing repair speed, they don't repair at all. Instead any "repairs" made with the toolbox take charges away from the maximum required charges.

If the killer doesn't interrupt and regress the gen, then using a toolbox changes nothing and doesn't speed up repairs at all. But if you use a toolbox and it takes off say 30 charges, then if that gen regresses to zero, it'll only take 60 charges to re-repair.

Less genrushing, but more protection against regression and 3-genning.

Yeah honestly if the limitation range isn't too small that it makes speed/regression perks insignificant it wouldn't be so bad. It would also make balancing those perks (+toolboxes) much easier considering a lot of the time they're fine on their own but too strong when stacked.

So this has actually inspired me to theorycraft the rework for it.

If we give Toolboxes a similar effect as the new BNP, and have a portion of those repairs instead be subtracted from the generators maximum charges, this gives toolboxes a strong protective value against regression perks. This not only serves as an indirect nerf for regression perks (meaning you don't have to overcomplicate things by nerfing those perks at the same time), but also allows for the gutting of increased repair speeds on toolboxes, as detailed below:

So while charges have been significantly increased, repair speeds have been virtually removed entirely, except for Engineer's (10% instead of 100%) and of course the add ons, which have been been reduced.

Mechanically, this would work by having half of your charges repair the generator normally, and the other half subtracting from the maximum required. A regular Toolbox with 30 charges and a subtraction rate of 50%, means that after 30 seconds of repairs (at normal repair speed unless effected by perks) you will have protected 15 charges in total. If that generator is then interrupted and regressed to "zero", 15 charges will remain, or it will only require 75 charges to repair to full.

Moreover, this I think would make the Engineer's Toolbox the 'best' toolbox, instead of Commodious, as it should be for a Very Rare item. As the Engineer's will have the 10% repair speed bonus with a protective power of 20 charges after 18 seconds of repairs, while the Commodious has more charges, but takes more time for a protective power of 25 charges after 50 seconds.

All in all, this virtually eliminates toolbox use for genrushing, and makes it a counter to regression instead, which make them more effective at 3 gen scenarios, or battles of attrition.

Caveats: due to the increased charges, Sabotage depletion rate will need to be increased, I would say from -2c/s to -3c/s, this will make them slightly more sustainable for sabotage instead of repairs. I wouldn't want to double it because the charges haven't been entirely doubled, and that would make it a nerf for sabotage as well. Additionally, the skill check chance would have to be reduced from x5 back to maybe x2 again, as the duration of toolbox use will dramatically increase, the Commodious will go from being depleted in 21 seconds, to 50 seconds.

My problem with maps and keys, is that they each do half of the same thing. I'd much prefer it if we had one item class that was used to track auras, which auras tracked being customised by add ons but being able to track other survivors by default (serving as a viable alternative to the likes of Kindred/Bond/SWF), and that power was a little more effective at what it does.

Rarity does not dictate if something is good or not, it just dictates its rarity. Trying using a key sometime with addons that let you see the killer's aura while you are being chased sometime and you'll realize how strong they can actually be.

You plan to also decrease base-time sabotage speed? Or why did you nerf alexis by freaking 25%? That's basically making the toolbox as useless for sabotaging, as any other toolbox. IDK but if this goes thru, you can remove the whole mechanics at this point and leave just saboteur perk.

Seriously, try it, its wall hacks. Want to know what else is true about the "wisdom of the crowd" in DBD?

The "Wisdom of the crowd" also sees that nurse is the worst killer in the game, and Pinhead, Sadako, Wesker, and Freddy are some of the best in the game.

The problem is that when people use keys, they think of it merely as a way to escape using the hatch. Seriously, look at the addons, and think about it for just one second.

You can see the killer's aura within 32 METERS?! that is NUTS. Use that in a chase around a loop and see how long it takes a killer to catch you. Combine that with a skeleton key and a duration addon, and you are looking at the killer's aura for a full 22.5 seconds of time in a chase. And this only if you just hold the thing down, which you don't need to do. You simply toggle it for a second or 2 and you know what the killer is doing, if used correctly it will probably last you a whole match.

The numbers lie. It's supposed to be 2.5s, but in fact both are 3s (but speed addons make toolbox quicker). Those 0.66s is enough for you to only do sabotage when you are already at the hook someone has picked up. It's absolutely game changing. The 0.2s buff that saboteur got this upcoming patch is already huge and the viability of the perk went up by insane margin.

Sabotages are super sensitive on timing. It's similar to vault. Like resilience is supposed to be 9% faster vault for an action that takes 0.5/0.9s (mid vs fast vault) - and it still is noticable. Thats 0.045/0.081s. And it's still a perk that people bring for this entire purpose (plus genrush as a cherry-on-top). Now compare it to 0.66s...

And of course I am touchy at the subject. It's the main reason I enjoy the game. This nerf would make 1/2 of the builds I play no longer viable (and sabo toolbox absolutely not worth taking).

You are correct on the numbers, but the point still stands that that is quite OP.