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We Do Not Need the Current DC Penalty Anymore!
The DC Penalty mechanic is something that this game has had for years and it's something that, as of at least 7.1.0, is a completely obsolete mechanic with too many exploits to go around.
Developers, I need you to consider the following reasons as to why we do not need the DC Penalty and why I think it should be completely removed for all players outright:
- A recent change made in the 7.1.0 PTB allows Survivors to become Bots upon disconnecting. This allows players that still want to play the match feel like they can still win as Survivor and gives the Killer a fairer match (and sometimes a better Survivor in the process). This comes without a removal of the disconnect penalty which is too much of a punishment since you can be replaced.
- Additionally, there is a new exploit to completely counter getting disconnect Bots into the match, which is to just sacrifice yourself on the hook. This exploit completely circumvents the new system and gives no chance for a fair or winnable match for Survivors, or a fair match for the Killer, and this exploit does not trigger a disconnection penalty.
- On top of that exploit, there is still an exploit in the game that completely circumvents the penalty as a whole. That exploit is when you disconnect during the offering screen or the pre-match loading screen. This does not do a DC penalty even though you have accepted to play the match out, leading to an inconsistency in the system.
- When a player disconnects, all other players in the match still cannot disconnect from the game or else they will also be punished for disconnecting from the match. This means that players will end up being stuck in a match they either feel is no longer winnable or will no longer be fun to play in. Even with the addition of bots, this feature still doesn't feel nice to have.
- At any point in the match that a player disconnects, they will still receive some sort of disconnect penalty. This can even occur at the very end of the match when all Generators are done or all Survivors are hooked or even if you're being sacrificed by the Killer. This flaw in the system means that you get punished even after the game is over for you, just because you didn't want to watch the 15 second long death animation or want to try and contest the gates. If people want to leave after they know they've lost the match, they should leave without any penalty.
All of these factors combined lead to a disconnect penalty system that is obsolete and shouldn't remain in the game. Players shouldn't feel like they should be obligated to play a match that someone disconnects from or that they aren't having fun in and not be able to find a match that they might actually enjoy playing.
Instead of keeping the current Disconnection Penalty, you need to look at alternatives to it in order to ensure that players have reason to keep playing without giving them a reason to play another game instead.
In fact, the best alternative that I could give you to a timer-based Disconnection Penalty is this:
- Upon disconnecting, you lose two Pips from your current Pip system. If you de-pip below 0 Pips on your current grade, you now regress back to the previous grade. This applies even in Max Grade.
- Continuously disconnecting after 3 matches will steadily increase the amount of pips lost, up to 6 Pips.
- Playing a match to its entirety will reset the system.
This would be a significantly fairer punishment for Survivors and Killers that want to disconnect, making it so that they could possibly lose out on getting the end-of-the-season Bloodpoint rewards because they felt inclined to disconnect, while also making it so that players who care more about getting into matches faster can still do so.
Anything can work so long as we just don't have the current system. The current system is both flawed in its utility and bad for the overall health of the game and even pointless considering all of the above factors.
Please just get rid of the timer or give us something to replace the timer.
Comments
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I wouldn't exactly be stoked to play against a bunch of bots more often than not just because people would rather act like scrubs than get good.
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People barely care about pips. Pips mean nothing. People will quit any other game if they face minimum inconvenience. Survivor is found first -- dc, killer gets blinded -- dc, bad map -- dc. With no strict punishing people will behave like children, they already do, but less frequently.
And playing with bots is no fun, we play this game because it is pvp after all. Well, at least me.
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I do agree there should be other penalties to leaving a match than a stacking timer. In my experience, survivors seem to disconnect usually after being camped, tunneled or slugged. If as many things as possible are addressed as to why survivors d/c then over time you'll see less of it.
I really don't think the norm would ever be enough survivors constantly disconnecting at every inconvenience. People who do this will find themselves barely playing the game and finding most of their time wasted. After awhile they'll either play the game or play something else. Besides that, blood points are essential for survivors to progress their characters. You get nothing for leaving a match, so that incentive will always be there.
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DCs should be penalized more, not less.
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No.
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Yea so certain killers will only get to play against bots. Right, great idea.
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Bots aren't a valid replacement for a survivor, they just lessen the blow of losing a team mate so that it's not instantly a hopeless 3v1. Also, killers don't want to play entire games against 4 bots just because they chose an unpopular killer.
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DC penalties are needed, even if a Bot replaces them in the match, otherwise people will just disconnect for petty reasons. Understandable to target DCs related to legit internet issues, but if someone feels the need to disconnect from multiple matches in the same day, you're better off just not playing DBD for the day anyways.
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The progressing increase in penalty for multiple dc's should be considerably harsher. Massively harsher, even. Don't like it? Don't be a scummy person who clicks the play button and then quits just because you don't like something that happened. There is no excuse. Whenever you willingly quit a match it's not the game's fault and it's not the killer's fault. It's yours.
I don't understand anyone who wants clemency for scummy people doing scummy things. Maybe they are scummy themselves if they want to defend it.
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I'll try to reply to each of you points:
Bots comes without a removal of the disconnect penalty which is too much of a punishment since you can be replaced
Bots are implemented because, as you said, the player who DCs ruins the game for everyone else. Why shouldn't they face any consequences because the devs are implementing something to try and fix the mess they made ?
Killing yourself on hook is an exploit which bypasses being replaced by a bot
So, hook suicide is an exploit (aka, bad and bannable) so we should allow those people (who do bad bannable things) to DC without any consequences ? I get wanting them to DC instead so they're replaced by a bot, but not punishing them for it seems silly. If anything, punishing hook suicide so people DC instead would be a better fix (although idk how that would be implemented). In any case, people can already suicide on hook instead of DCing and many of them don't, so it's not going to become more of an issue than it is now.
DCing while the game is loading is an exploit because you have agreed to see the game through and it leads to inconsistencies in the system
I'm not sure what conclusion we're supposed to get from this? I mean, yes DCing during the loading screen doesn't have a penalty and it's annoying, but I'm not sure how that's an argument in favor of deleting the DC penalty ? if anything, punishing people for DCing because people didn't bring offerings they like doesn't sound like a bad idea.
When one person DCs the rest can't DC without also facing a DC penalty
That's a good point, although with the implementation of bots this shouldn't be an issue anymore. However, what I find interesting here is that you understand that even with bots this wouldn't be so nice, because playing with / against bots isn't particularly fun. So I wonder, if you understand playing with & against bots isn't so great, why are you trying to get rid of the DC penalty, which would make the number of DCs (and bots) skyrocket ?
If people want to leave after they know they've lost the match, they should leave without any penalty
No, "I'm clearly losing so I DC" is basically a rage quit, no matter how late in the game it is. People who DC when they're about to lose are only doing so to prevent their opponent from getting something (BPs, perk effect, mori, event reward, achievement, daily or rift challenge, adept) and should be punished for it.
Also, you seem to forget a very important point: bots are only for survivors. If survivors should get free DCs because bots replace them, why should killers be allowed to do the same when their DC literally ends the game ?
Deleting the DC penalty would just subject players to have at least one bot per game and survivors would most likely see the end-game very rarely because killers could just DC when they realize they're losing.
Also, no one cares about pips or BPs enough for your suggestion to do the job. You think the penalties are too harsh but you're also aware of DCs being common, so I'm sure you can understand that it would be much worse with any lesser punishment.
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Nah. You're just wrong.
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Everyone that comes at this from an angle of punishing people that they perceive as immature or being a baby or whatever is completely missing the point. There are multiple studies confirming that negative reinforcement is, at best, ineffective. If someone doesn't want to play out a match, they won't play it. Your opinion on their character or who they are is ultimately irrelevant.
What matters is how that consequence impacts the rest of their team. With a bot, that consequence is significantly reduced. Not completely mitigated by a long shot, but far less damaging than before.
This is what will happen: people will do what they've always done. They'll give up on hook, they'll die, and now it's a 3v1 anyway — because they don't want to deal with the DC penalty.
Again, anything you feel about them is not going to change that outcome. You can't change the behavior of complete strangers. They don't know you, you don't know them, and they quite frankly have zero obligation to listen to you berate them or chastise them for throwing. All you can do is offer a reduction in frustration by removing the incentive to give up on hook and deny your team the bot they'd otherwise have at their disposal.
So yeah, get rid of the DC penalty. I'd rather someone DC with no cost, regardless of their reasoning, than watch someone give up on hook and deny the rest of their team a chance at escaping.
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As long as the DC penalty stays, the bots won't do much. Most people would rather suicide on hook than have to deal with the DC penalty. And in this case they'll be leaving their team with no bots to compensate.
Even with hook suicide removed people will then just run into the killer until they die or just do the Claudette playstyle and just hide around the map while doing random chests and totems until the game ends.
Even if you do force people to stay in a match, they'll still refuse to play normally, and in this situation people 100% would rather get a DC bot than a teammate just doing nothing which again makes the game a 3v1 just like hook suicides. (or even a 3v2 depending on the killer's perks and other survivors altruism).
No matter what you do, you can't force people to play if they don't want to or are not having fun.
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I agree. People who want out will still just go next on hook and prevent the bot, there isn't a real reason to have a dc timer once the dc bots are added.
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If I was given a choice, I would much rather a teammate DCs and is replaced with a bot vs them trying to kill themselves on hook and then slamming every pallet down because you saved them. I think BHVR should do a trial run of a few weeks where they remove the DC penalty just to see how "bad" it would be.
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I personally think dc penalties shouldn't be removed but rather should be reworked! Devs should make dc penalties much harsher for the constant abusers so that both killer and survivor players can play fairly and not screw thier teammates!! In regards to bots, I believe it shouldn't be part in live matches unless there is a work around in making pvp matches as it should be!! In the end of the day nobody wants a pve game where killer mains goes against 4 ai bots and so forth!
I believe the devs ain't going to make this worst than what it is and so I only hope they figure out a way to make this issue resolved
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I don't know if you live in an alternative universe but modern society and most counties' (if not all?) law systems use "negative reinforcement". People go to jail. Sometimes they get executed, even. People who do wrong things should always be punished in some way or another. Does that need to be the only measure ever taken? Of course not, and I suspect that was your strawman. But ultimately, if someone did something wrong, they should be punished for it regardless. If they don't like the punishment, then they should have been better. If you don't like the game, don't commit to it by clicking the play button.
Also, for future reference, this is not a negative reinforcement case. This is a punishment case. These are not quite the same and represent different things.
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If you want to be so selfish, childish and pathetic by kicking your toys out of the pram to leave your fellow survivors to take on whatever you're dodging with only bots, you should at the very least be man enough to eat your ban.
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You can't force people to play is the way i've always looked at it. Most people don't even DC. They just give up on the hook since it lets you dodge the penalty. I'm not sure how suggestions of making penalties longer is going to improve this. Just make the DC penalties shorter so people are more incentivized to DC instead of giving up on the hook. As long as DC penalties are harsh people will keep circumventing it. Sometimes the killer will slug survivors who intentionally give up. The thing is this rarely changes anything in my experience. They usually just go AFK and refuse to play.
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I somewhat agree. Rather than total removal the severity should be reduced for the first few disconnects but scale them up faster.
Do like 3 1 minute penalities before giving a 5 minute penalty, then 30 - 1 hour - 12 hours and so on.
There is absolutely nothing that can be done to make someone who has decided they no longer want to play continue playing. If they can't DC, they kill themselves on hook, if they can't kill themselves on hook they'll repeatdly run at the killer until they're dead, and if the killer ignores them and they can't do that they'll literally just go AFK.
The best thing the devs can do is to minimize the damage someone who is giving up is causing. DC penalities do serve an important role in this, giving chronic leavers a wait period in which they are not leaving more matches. By keeping the penalities more leniant in the beginning but scaling them up faster people who chronically leave matches will still need to deal with the DC penalities but those that only DC occasionally will be encouraged to use the leave match button instead since that minimizes the damage to the game which they are leaving from. This strikes a good balance of minimizing the damage of chronically leaving matches damaging the integrity of many matches as well as minimizing the damage done to matches by those that DC infrequently enough to only ever get 1 minute penalties.
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a player that does not want to play the match can suicide on hook. so you won't get a bot and still face same 3vs1 problems. Likewise, if they remove d/c penalties then killers that are not survivor approved will just result in instant d/c's where every time a killer player picks a killer, they can only play vs bots. fascinating problem BVHR has. It sounds like they're embracing their entitled survivor community.
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well if behaviour made killers that were mostly fun to go against then you wouldn’t have that problem would you blight nurse skull merchant knight all killers that truly should only play against bots because they are god awful to go against and just suck the fun out of the game
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Studies pretty consistently show that the punishment thing isn't what fixes the problem. Recidivism rates are high in places that put more emphasis on punishment than on rehabilitation. If we're not doing something to incentivize doing the right thing and instead put all of our focus on punishing people for not doing the right thing, then yes, DC'ers gonna DC, and they'll keep doing it until they have less incentive to do so. This is a case where positive reinforcement can help, believe it or not. Hell, how about bonus BP if you finish a match with a bot in it that increases for every bot in the match. That way you're incentivized to stick around in case someone else DC's, and at the very worst, a killer will have 3 bots and at least 1 human since that person knows they're gonna get 3x the BP just for putting up with the BS.
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EXACTLY! Reading through these comments feels like talking to a wall. A lot of people don’t understand that when they boot up dead by daylight they want to have fun if they aren’t having fun, they should not feel obligated to stay in a match they paid for the game there is absolutely no need to punish players that are just trying to have a good time.
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Lol. Sorry but that is just a stupid take or like a killer main who likes to have easy matches upon a DC.
There is not a single good reason not to have bots replace DCs.
Not to mention, if DC penalties are harsher, people will just kill themself on hooks more often, which is not exactly better.
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I mentioned your strawman and specifically addressed it, and again you come at me with "put all of our focus on punishing people for not doing the right thing". That's crazy. Let me say this again then: Does that need to be the only measure ever taken? Of course not, and I suspect that was your strawman. But ultimately, if someone did something wrong, they should be punished for it regardless.
Hopefully you read it this time and you don't tell me something like "put all of our focus on punishing people". That would be crazy.
Also, studies you don't source can say anything, but can you point me to 5 countries in this world where there is no punishment whatsoever for crimes? I'm hard pressed to find one. Again we go back to my point. Obviously there are other measures to be taken other than *only* punishment. But punishment for people who do wrong things is not to be abolished. Why would you even want that? Let's not start patting people on the back for murdering their neighbors. Punishment needs to stay.
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I was going to apologize for phrasing my post in a way that came off as a strawman. However, you just compared disconnecting from a match of Dead by Daylight to someone murdering their neighbor and I honestly can't take that seriously. Like. My dude. Holy crap that's hilarious. Thank you for the laugh, I needed it, and that was far crazier than anything I could have told you.
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This dude is out here unironically believing disconnecting in a videogame is an actual crime. I can't, this is too funny lmao
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Some people REALLY need to touch some grass in here
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simply incorrect
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Yeah we do, as every time it has been disabled due to a bug or whatever the whole thing turns into an utter ######### show of DC's almost every match.
And I say this as someone who does occasionally DC myself even though I try not to be that guy. But I accept that if I DC and let my team down, I should be penalised and time and time again the community have proven that when you remove the penalties the DC's go out of control and the game becomes literally unplayable
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the pip suggestion is not bad. but i mostly diasagree, dc penalty is still needed. nobody wants to play with bots. we need to punish those players still, someone becoming a bot is not a goal, but something to avoid. thats just baerly better than a 3v1. bhrv just needs to adress the dc exploits. Maybe im worng but therse no pvp games on earth without dc penaltys.
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Been so crazy watching YouTube videos of skull merchants actively making sure the survivors aren’t having fun and refusing to play a normal game of dbd until everyone DC’s just such a weird mentality please take away the DC penalty
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DC penalty should stay
You should not be rewarded for disconnecting against something you don't like. That's what leaving a match and being able to jump straight into the next one instantly is - it's a reward.
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I have never played an online game that doesn't penalize disconnection.
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I do not want to play with, or against, an entire team of bots. Which is what will happen if there is NO consequence for DCing.
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😭
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I agree about this, I was confused when encountering this because I had disconnected unwillingly and found out that I was banned which made me worried that I had done something rude.
It would be nice for some other alternative
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Nope. Bots are still a loss most of the time for survivor since they are worse and it's boring to play against as killer.
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I think the DC'ing penalty is to also give yourself a break, if you're rage quitting more than and more it just makes sense that it should increase. If apex did this a long time ago that game wouldn't be as bad as it is nowadays.
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Would you like it if you played against a Bot killer with Bot survivors every match?
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