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Why is BHVR so afraid to nerf tunnelling?
Comments
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You can't get hit if you lose collision. That's how it works.
Auto-aim is terrible design tho, it should be removed with or without this mechanic.
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Combo DS with the basekit BT which can get you around 40ish meters assuming the killer hits on the 10s mark, you should be able to make it to a decent loop on any map.
That's not even taking into account OTR which forces the killer to hit you off hook, BT, or other haste perks like MFT, guardian etc.
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You can still be hit without collision. You can test it by hitting a survivor as the Knight right after a guard hits them and they lose collision.
But even if they couldn't be hit, I don't think making survivors invincible is the way to do it. It just removes the possibility of misplays from the survivor until the effect wears off.
And auto-aim would still target them anyway. Look at how old Freddy used to auto aim to awake survivors even though he couldn't hit them.
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Against m1 killers?
Sure.
But who plays m1 killer anyway. All i am seeing Wesker, Blight, Nurse, Spirit, Nemesis etc. DS is destroying weak killers and doing nothing against strong killers.
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You underestimate how much DS can do. The only killers you mentioned that are slightly unaffected by it are nurse and spirit. DS + DH is an absolute monster combo against blight.
Even against A tiers, DS is still one of the best perks in the game if you can loop the killer afterwards. So use the basekit BT to get into a good position and then use DS to extend the chase.
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DS is doing nothing. It's terrible and garbage perk. 1,2 seconds is animation. You have only 1,8 seconds to make distance.
Even m1 killers laughs to this perk.
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Killer main here, I'd like to chime in and say that for a very short time, DS was well calibrated. 60 seconds of protection that can be nullified by doing a conspicuous action was good. But then they nerfed the stun down to 3 seconds and that's what rendered the perk hard to use at all. Unless you go down in the right place, the killer can often catch you back even after a DS.
Personally I'd bring the stun duration back to 5 seconds and the perk would be good.
I had a nuclear option for tunneling, which would be to have the unhooked person teleport to the hook that's the furthest away from the killer. But then this would ruin the ability to fast heal after an unhook with perks like We'll Make It, Botany, Desperate Measures and so on...
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”i dont think its too big of an issue” your the same person that was constantly complaining about circle of healing and now made for this. If tunneling isnt an issue then the perks you complain about arent either.
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i think it’s because it’s technically not “breaking the rules” per say , it’s just annoying/frustrating to go against.
even as a survivor main I will say that sometimes it’s justified and I don’t get mad because I would probably do the same. Is it really that bad if an M1 killer tunnels someone out when there’s like one gen left and they’ve only got a couple hooks? Of course they’re going to because at that stage it’s their only route to any sort of “win”’. The only time I say it’s ridiculous is a when it’s a really oppressive killer and they tunnel someone out at 5 gens. Again, not “against the rules” but makes for really unfun gameplay for the player on the receiving end.
There’s no quick-fix, in my opinion. This is owing to the fact that tunnelling occurs due to such a big pool of variables in the game (maps, player skill, perk variety, gen speeds, etc). Baskekit BT really improved the situation, remember when killers could down you straight off the hook? At least you have a chance now to escape.
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Chasing the unhooker? Then you have unhooked being healed, 3rd survivor healing, only the 4th one doing Gen.
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Thx to inbuild BT, the unhooked survivor usually stands in the way and tries to body block. Now you either waste a hit and get slowed down or you wait it out and get called a tunneler.
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There is a different between being chased with 2 health state, and being chased with 1 health state after 10second (after basekit BT off)
Even though unhooked have 107% speed. Hitting the unhooked is still have more benefit than hitting healthy unhooker. Chasing a deep wound that blood covers the screen is easier than a normal injured one.
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Yes, Endurance status should remove collision.
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i didn't. old dbd had lots of... interesting stuff back then, and i don't think we should compare anything to those. most maps are still, maybe not as heavily, survivor sided.
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Glad I have a reputation (I am going to keep hating until the perk gets nerfed).
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Even the strongest perk ever in this game will be not that strong in bad hands. My words about DS being garbage.
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As someone who runs DS in over 95% of their games due to the fact that I get tunnelled a lot, I'm gonna have to disagree. That perk has singlehandedly won me countless games.
Trust me, it seems bad on paper, but in games - as long as you're a decent looper - its very, VERY good still. I would recommend trying it even if you think its a bad perk.
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Actually, i think Endurance should stay as it is. BUT the inbuild BT should be a different status. Might as well be one without collision. That way, OTR keeps its value against tunneling killers, but non tunneling killers don´t get punished by body blockers.
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I think this is probably the safest option to more or less get rid of tunneling. However, there would need to be further restrictions added to the game like the collisionless survivor being unable to use a flashlight or drop a pallet to save their team mate. Otherwise this would be extremely abusable.
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"It was understandable when maps was so survivorside."
This hasn't changed. They still are, and to a large degree at that. While most reworked maps are much prettier, they're still terribly unbalanced.
That basically answers the whole thread.
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I'm sorry you must be confused, they buffed Tunneling in 6.1.0. Every Survivor knew to bring BT anyways, so it might as well have been basekit (to be fair along with 3 Survivor perks instead of 4 as a result). Before 6.1.0 you could have 2/3 powerful layers of actual protection against Tunneling, as you had BT, then DH, then DS (or the last 2 swapped in order). Heck, even on occasion you could use a Styptic or Syringe after DS and get a 4th layer. Now DS is a joke unless only used to reset Deep Wound, so you have 1 realistic layer, because if the Killer has functioning ears they know whether to hit you off hook (OTR) or wait 10.00001s (basekit BT). The only anti-tunnel perk doesn't work with the other anti-tunnel feature. You can't even DH after hook anymore because it also uses Endurance, which idiotically doesn't work when Deep Wounded due to meme YT vids during that PTB. So 6.1.0 hard buffed tunneling, it didn't nerf it.
So Pre 6.1.0, you could have 0-4 layers of anti-tunnel chase delay. Post 6.1.0, you can have 1, and only 1. An average of 2.5 is more than an average of 1.
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Already addressed that, you might wanna scroll down a bit.
But, as a refresher: The most egregious form of tunnelling that existed in the game, being downed as soon as your feet touched the ground from an unhook, was completely removed. In addition, you have a speed boost during the ten seconds of Endurance, so while you're running and while the killer is waiting it out, you get further and have a higher chance of reaching a pallet or window than you would have otherwise. These are, undeniably, nerfs to tunnelling.
In addition, there's stuff like enabling stealth-focused anti-tunnel via OTR, and Borrowed Time being buffed. These are less impactful, but still worth mentioning.
Literally the only thing that got any worse wrt tunnelling in 6.1.0 was DS getting its timer nerfed, and I'm in favour of reverting that specific change. As I already laid out, though, that doesn't outweigh the noticeable nerfs to the most egregious forms of tunnelling. As I said earlier, barring some specific killer interactions, if you're being tunnelled now you actually have agency in it, unlike before.
TL;DR, the only way you could possibly come to the ludicrous position that tunnelling got buffed in 6.1.0 is to not remember just how bad tunnelling used to be.
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Nah, i will just pass it. Because it did not help me against killers like Nurse, Blight which i get most times. This perk is on useless tier for me.
If someone else gets down, you are losing this effect. Killer no longer can tunnel you while you have this effect which means you can go to safe areas. But if you are around to save your teammate, then you deserved to be down if killer notice you.
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Perhaps let killer have 5 perks from start then when first survivor dies two perks at random just vanish making it better for killer to hook everyone rather than killing someone fast and just have 3 perks left. But survivors would need a buff before this or the "fair" playing killer would be a tad bit OP perhaps.
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You already have a basekit anti-tunnel measure in the form of BT, and survivors are already weaponizing it to take hits off hook for their unhooker. Maps are already saturated with safe pallets and safe loops enough. If the killer hits you off hook (whether you have OTR or not), you have a speedboost and the killer is stuck in recovery animation, letting you make it to the next tile to waste more time and let your team do gens. If the killer tries to wait out BT and you have OTR, you're effectively playing with 3 S-tier chase perks for the next 80s when they decide to hit you, not to mention your unhooker can take a hit for you as well.
Tunneling can be addressed when survivors can't finish all 5 gens in 3 minutes without any speed perks or items. If survivors can rush their objective, killer should be able to rush theirs as well.
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You realize you have the agency to run wherever you want to as long as you have DS? If you choose to run to a deadzone and get downed, and waste your DS, that's on you. Realizing that you have a free wiggle off the killer's shoulders, you should probably run to a safe tile, greed the pallet until you get downed, then instantly drop it after DS.
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Because "tunneling" is also "playing the game normally" and I don't the this in a sarcastic way.
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Cool story but this is not reality of game. Next.
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Camping leads to tunneling
If anything camping is what needs the nerf.
And no a perk or getting yourself off the hook is not the answer to nerfing camping.
If a killer wants to camp allow survivors to pick up weapons turning it into 3v1 fight. Camping killers will think twice about camping when their getting chased by three Nea's with baseball bats.
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You shouldn't be losing 5 gens in 3 minutes.
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If you're not interested in having a conversation, then neither am I.
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Ds is good🤡
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i wanna go back to 2021 ds
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Certainly much more viable than 2023's DS.
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I do exactly this and can tell you with 100% confidence that my games are more fun for me and for the other people. Killers dictate their own fun and the fun of survivors (for the most part), it’s your choice to play how you want. I go for 8 hooks every game and it’s actually a challenge and rewarding. There’s nothing easier than playing this game as a sweaty killer that tunnels the first person hooked out of the game. The game is designed to be a 4v1, not a 3v1.
Sure, I lose games sometimes, get stomped sometimes too, but I don’t take it seriously; you’re not supposed to win every game, it would be extremely boring if you do. Killer can be very frustrating sometimes but I’m not gonna take my frustration out on others who are trying to have a good time. People need to remember that at the end of the day, this is just a video game that’s supposed to be played for enjoyment.
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While this is true you also have to remember that this works vice versa. This game is a repeating circle. The reason survivors do gens so fast is because they’re scared of the early kill before 3 gens are completed. If the games a 3v1 before 2 gens, you lose 90% of the time.
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First off, like most other issues in the game, bad map balance is the malignant tumor metastasizing everywhere, and a huge driver of tunneling.
Secondly, tunneling is as much a player issue as it is a game design issue, and as such can never be eliminated, or even drastically reduced. Even if the game were so balanced it got Thanos off, certain people would tunnel. That's because it's the simplest thing to do, even when ineffective.
You see people tunnel a person and throw the match to do it frequently. It's either immediately effective, or the killer keeps doing it at the cost of the match because of the sunk cost fallacy (or they're just tilted).
It's a lizard brain strategy both when it works, and when it doesn't. Thus the prevalence.
The only way to stop it would be to provide so many protections that it breaks the game entirely.
It's not a matter of BHVR not caring or being "afraid" to fix it; it's simply an issue with no great solution, unless you can mind control people to just not do it.
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Because survivors call anything and everything tunneling. Tunneling already got hard nerfed. Never do we see changes like this to killers basekit. Basekit bt after unhook is all you need.
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The perk is a joke. The only people that think its good are players that dont play survivor but listen to killer content creators or watch a comp match where someone ds a killer, lasted long but still died, but the rest of the team survived. I remember someone used nerfed ds on me on eyrie before the update while i was playing demogorgon and i caught up quick even with the breakable walls. The perk is straight garbage
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I think it's about time to make the Killer work on generators alongside the survivors, right? Goodness, survivors want everything handed to them; they don't want to think about looping, don't create strategies, and can't even do a proper hook rescue. Now they can't even be chased anymore, and the gold-leafed ones think they're invincible. That's all we needed.
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I do. I main the wraith.
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Make it more simple, debuff 4 survivors alive down to 75% (300% instead of 400%). Then buff 3 survivors alive up to 150% (450% instead of 300%).
The buff number seems huge, but when the game dropped to 3 survivors, usually its a loop of "chasing - hooked - unhooking" and no one do Gens, unless Killers tunneling the 2nd survivor again.
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Youre seeing it very black and white and nothing in life is of those 2 colors alone. Tunnelling is a strat yes. Killing is the main objective of the killer so logically tunnelling makes sense yes. But think about it. Youre legit stopping someone else from playing and its miserable. And it's not like you have a chance to recuperate like other games. You get tunnelled when most vulnerable so you don't even have a chance to fight back. Tunnelling as a strat is fair, but it's not fun at all.
And remember, DBD isn't a competitive game. You get nothing from winning except bragging rights. So most people play for fun. Fun is subjective, but we all can agree that having someone actively stopping you from playing the game with limited ways way to fight back is not fun.
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Yeah, but one side is clearly more afraid of this, than the other. One side is spending all perk slots on slowing the match down, while the other isn´t.
One side is more desperate and the meta shows.
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Tunneling doesn't stop you from playing the game, you just go next. If i had to choose between getting camped and getting tunneled, i prefer the later ... at least its active chasetime and not just dangeling from a hook...i agree, its not the funniest part of DbD to get taken out of a game by a comp blight at five or four gens, but there is worse
According to DS/BT/OTR/DH ...the many times i see survivors waste these perks by jumping in front of the killer or in a locker for funny grabgames instead of at least trying to reach a safer tile ...that is not what these perks are meant for and its literally begging for a tunnel and many killers are happy to oblige
These perks give you a chance to get away, not a guarantee, and if you use them for offensive gameplay you are free to do this but don't complain about the consequences
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If you are being tunneled out of the game you were playing by being chased. Plus nothing is stopping you from requeuing after you die and playing another game.
The survivor role is one that can be eliminated from the game. That is simply part of their gameplay.
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The chase where you have no chance, sure. You can't even make good bp. Sure. Such a gameplay.
Hopefully BHVR nerf this after camping. So killers can actually play game instead of destroying fun for other side.
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its not that they're afraid its that they don't know how
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You being bad at running the killer is not the fault of the game.
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