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Hit and run is awful for the game and shouldn't be encouraged
Chase is the most fun part of dbd by far. Not a hot take until hit and run is brought up, interestingly enough. Hit and run is literally just the playstyle of injuring someone (hitting) and dropping chase to look for someone else (running). Usually done by a stealth killer who can get a first hit very easily, or legion, who can also get a first hit very easily. Specifically when done on stealth killers, the playstyle doesn't involve much chasing whatsoever. Just sneak up on someone, get an easy hit, leave, come back to them later while they're injured, do the same thing and get an easy down. It's the playstyle of not chasing, the playstyle of....not fun.
The only reason the people using this playstyle wouldn't immediately drop chase is if they could get a follow up hit quickly, as to say, people using this playstyle only commit to chases when it'll take them the least effort. This whole thing really doesn't take any skill or effort whatsoever, it literally only involves getting hits when they come to you, as opposed to actually having to work for them. It's lazy.
As if that wasn't enough, this playstyle is best and basically only useful for pubstomping. How are you gonna stop a killer from sneaking up on you while injured and getting an easy down? By healing. How are you gonna heal? Either by finding a teammate or using an item/perk. So you're basically either forced to bring a specific tool or play in a swf to reaslitically deal with this, because I guess solos didn't have enough crap to deal with? There's no easy way to find teammates to get healed in solo, so you either have to waste potentially a ridiculously long time trying to find a teammate, or accept that if the killer comes to your gen before you finish it, they will down you.
Remember, solos have to deal with this boring nonsense all because the killer takes on a strategy that doesn't take any skill. There's nothing you can actually reliably do about this. As long as the killer uses LOS blockers, you're just gonna get hit, there's hardly much higher of a skill ceiling to it because you can't see the killer from behind a wall. So we have a playstyle that takes no skill, is boring, and disproportionately impacts solos, why in the world do people like this? Counterarguments below, spoilered to make this post more compact :)
"It's scary, brings the horror back to dbd" No it's not, I mean, maybe for you, but be realistic. You find out who the killer is. you know they're gonna be stealthing, so you're just looking around you expecting the killer to show up. If you have any sense of awareness whatsoever, I don't see how it's scary. Personally, I'm just looking at the locations I can expect the killer to come from, and I'm not surprised or scared in the slightest when they show up. Not to mention, wraith and legion have very obvious sound cues before they get in your face, so they're even less scary.
"It takes skill" Can we be serious? No it doesn't. All you have to do with this is sneak up on survivors with LOS blockers as a stealth killer, get an easy hit since, you know, they literally had no way to know you were coming, and they literally just go somewhere else if you're a decent looper beyond that. I'm sorry but that doesn't represent skill in any universe, just taking the easy route every chance you get. Remember how wraith and legion are considered the easiest killers, because they are, because hit and run isn't hard.
"Like running in circles around a pallet is any fun" I begin to notice a pattern of dishonesty among defenders of hit and run defenders. Are we really gonna pretend this is all that happens in chase? Sure it's part of it, but there's also mindgames, respects, greeding, getting momentum for fast vaults, red stain mindgames, etc. a chase power if your killer is designed well enough to have one. Unfortunately not all of them have such a luxury, so they really are just forced into hit and run, it's a shame and it shouldn't be that way.
"Everything is OP vs solos" Yeah, and this isn't helping. There's a difference between something being more effective vs solos just because you're against solos and something that itself becomes stronger vs solos. Remember old eruption? There was something very obvious making that stronger vs solos, and it's the same here.
"(Anything that assumes I'm annoyed with the players themselves, or that I'm entitled enough to think I can say how other people should play the game, or something like that, typically something like 'what do you want the killer to do, chase you all game and lose 5 gens')" Dude, I do not care how you play the game, I care what BHVR chooses to encourage and what to discourage. I recognize hit and run is often a necessity because of killers without a chase power, maps, etc. Point is it shouldn't be like that. Maps should be fixed, I don't think anyones disagreeing with that, unless hit and run defenders are that dishonest?
"So killers can't camp, tunnel, 3 gen, slug, and now they can't hit and run? What are they supposed to do?" Depending on what's meant by that question, the answer is similar to the last one. If you mean what is the killer supposed to do as in, in the current state of dbd, I still don't care. Play how you want, jeez. If you mean how should killers be encouraged to play, that would be to chase!
"Survivors will never be satisfied until killers are unable to move and generators get completed in 5 seconds (or some nonsense like that)" Worst kinds of comments....generic and unconstructive, hoping I won't actually be expected to respond to anything like this
Please BHVR, buff solos to give them easier access to heal each other (altruism, another thing that's good for the game! im sure this is another take that only heats up when discussing hit and run), and make maps less crap and nerf some exhaustions so killers have the option of commiting to chases, because I can't even blame a sadako (for example) for turning to hit and run when she literally has no chase power in a state of dbd like this. I especially and definitely can't blame a legion, because their whole power was straight up designed to be like that for some reason.... Encourage chases! Please!
Edit: I might as well add, I don't mind if hit and running does something. Injuring someone should obviously put pressure on them somehow. It should slow the game down, but it should never lead to downs, ever, reserve does for actual skilled play. If the only way hit and run was touched was giving solos the info they need to find each other to heal, I think I'd be satisfied.
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there used to be a perk to counter this. it used to be called spine chill. it was recently changed in 6.1.0 and there is another change coming in Nicolas cage chapter.
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Even then, shouldn't have to use a perk to counter this as a solo, but still, RIP spine chill 💔
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And how exactly do you intend on removing Hit and Run? The obvious answer to "fixing" Hit and Run is by making stealth Killers have a more reliable power to use in chase. You could punish Killers for leaving a chase but that idea is fundamentally flawed to begin with, that would just be awful for Killers, especially when on certain loops you can walk to remove chase anyways, it would just set up the game for absolute disaster.
Realistically, Hit and Run is based on the idea of catching players off guard, and it makes up for the weaker areas of a Killer's power, mainly filling in for their weak chase potential. If you put yourself in a good position and are alert, then Hit and Run does nothing. The pressure for Hit and Run is not really the best either, since it takes awhile to actually get a down even when doing Hit and Run effectively.
So who are the people who actually suffer against this playstyle? New players or less experienced players of course, they dont have the tools or knowledge to be able to deal with Hit and Run. But cant that be said about almost everything else? New players or less experienced players suffer to a lot of things, it's why the Killrates for low MMR are so high compared to other MMR ranges, but I dont think it is insanely necessary to change an entire playstyle just because of new players or less experienced players.
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old circle of healing punished hit & run and old med-kits. he's complaining about the common anti-heal with sloppy butcher that some killer players are enforcing as healthy design.
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I think what you're missing from the equation is the option of dropping chase to pressure gens. It's a way to slow the trial down without using gen-perks.
I do agree that it's not the most efficient tactic available. I'm personally happy that since the CoH and healing nerfs hit and run became viable at least against some teams, because some players like to employ different approaches instead of perfecting a single one.
I'm sorry that you find this playstyle boring, but considering how often I hear this word used for various killers, builds, and tactics, you must be having so many exciting trials if hit and run is the only one that doesn't meet your expectations. Especially if you do enjoy it when not done by stealth killers.
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What then? What playstyle or strategy do you want encouraged? So far all im seeing is endless complaining about literally anything the killer can do on these forums.
Things people want killers to not be able to do:
- 3 gen
- Camp
- Tunnel
- Stack slowdown
And now hit and run???? Just absurd. What, is the game only ever healthy if every match is 2 hooking everyone before killing? Because so far thats all thats encouraged! Devs confirmed their looking into 3 genning. Devs are removing camping. Devs added basekit BT and are continuing to work with tunneling. Devs recently obliterated all but 1 regression perk, leaving just 2 slowdown perks universally viable.
And you want hit and run nerfed now too? How would that even work? Accelerate altruistic healing? Unnerf CoH and/or med kits? Completely rework killers who encourage hit and run? Plenty of players really enjoy playing hit and run. Twins needs it just to FUNCTION.
Hit and run does encourage chase... they still need to actually down you. Dont be out in the open, not a hard concept.
Post edited by EQWashu on17 -
That's how you fix hit and run. As for your second point, it's not up to you whether or not you can be in a good position. Sometimes an important gen is by LOS blockers, no awareness allows you to see killers from behind walls. Solos are the ones who really suffer most from hit and run, experienced or not, as they can't be healed nearly as reliably as survivors in a SWF
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I don't know what exactly gave you the idea that hnr is the only thing I find boring. Do I have to bring up skull merchant too just to complain about hnr? Also congrats to those players, but that doesn't make the strat any less problematic. Just because I want to camp and get a 4k doesn't mean I should be able to, same goes here, hit and run shouldn't be effective
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Hit and run does not encourage chase, it is the exact opposite. Sneaking up on an injured survivor and getting an easy down is not chasing, hell it often won't even initiate chase. Also it's not even out in the open you need to worry about, it's LOS breakers, which will prevent you from being able to see a stealth killer on their way to you. Even then, it's not always up to you whether or not to be near LOS blockers, it varies from area to area but as long as you have to do a gen and as long as there's LOS blockers nearby, there's nothing allowing you to see the killer when they're literally behind a wall.
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thats why the terror radius exists. Only stealth killers can reliably play hit and run, and even then theres SB. Just dont get snuck up on, be more aware.
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I know only stealth killers can reliably play hit and run, that doesn't change the problem. Infact that's basically the entire problem because it's not like anyone else besides legion is really doing hnr anyways. Having to use a perk to counter something is literally never a good argument. And it's just not as simple as "Just dont get snuck up on, be more aware." You can't see the killer from behind walls, it's that simple, you can't just be more aware and all of a sudden see the killer when they're behind a rock or whatnot
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I want to chase and I want to be chased. Whether or not I escape idrc, should come down to how well both sides played, separate story from how fun or boring the match is. I literally have always heard agreement in the opinion that chases are obviously what makes dbd fun for everyone, up until hnr is brought up, weird
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but long chases for killer is losing the game. you see the problem? stealth killers also have no chase capacity. their entire gimmick is hit & run. the maps are also imbalanced for chases for m1 killers so there is even a greater incentive to hit & run for a big portion of killer cast. in any case, I think hit & run should be legit strategy if the killer invests perk slots to make a legit strategy to play on. survivors can use perks to make it less effective if they so choose too but those perks have all been nerfed because they were over-used and deemed too powerful.
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then still killers are functioning as intended. They are meant to be stealthy, hows that a problem? Hit and run really isnt an issue.
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When did I complain about stealth itself? You can have stealth without commiting to hit and run every opportunity you get. Getting an easy initial injure on someone will make the following chase with them much quicker
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stealth is inherently about ambushing them, which will always be their biggest strength. That is to say hit and run will always be their best strategy unless we just turn them into another chase killer.
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As I just said you can ambush survivors without commiting to hit and run constantly. + I really don't think it'd be their best strategy if maps,exhaustions,and solo were changed. ++ Ghostface's best strategy is definitely not hit and run, not sure what it is with absolute precision but it definitely involves marking as opposed to just constantly stealthing around for injures
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The end goal for survivors is to have killers be bots who find a survivor chase them for a few minutes eating every pallet stun so they can "earn" their 4 man escape every game.
Killers shouldn't be able to think strategy and do anything more than mindlessly chase every survivors.
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Can't say I'm surprised 😒 but of course your comment which is as brainless as the strategy you defend will get upvotes anyways + Hit and run isn't a complex strategy at all, nothing complex about dropping chase the moment a health state doesn't come to you easy, and chasing survivors isn't mindless, unless it's you chasing them ig
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That would require some pretty substantial changes, considering killers such as Wraith are specifically designed and balanced around that strategy, as shown by the official dbd website's description of Wraith as "a hit and run specialist."
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Indeed it would, I see that on the website now, that's mindnumbing
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How does it seem like that? What's the logic to "what's the issue with being injured?" The issue with being injured is that it doesn't take any investment of time into chasing. Just because I get injured doesn't mean I got chased, because a stealth killer just popping up out of nowhere reallyyyy is not a chase. I don't want to be able to dip as soon as I get hit at all, that's literally what the hit and run killers want. I only want to if they drop chase instantly, because otherwise they'll be able to get a free down off me, which is stupid, they should have to commit to the chase to get the down (in general)
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All of the above, I guess? They kinda overlap. The reason it's a free down is because you don't do anything remarkable for either hit, just sneak up on survivors from behind LOS blockers, there isn't anything they can do about it bc no matter how aware you are you're not gonna see a killer from behind a wall. And if whoever's playing this way would have to put in effort to get the hit for whatever reason, they just immediately drop chase and try again somewhere else. It's playing in a way that guarantees as much value with as little effort. This is especially and possibly only a problem in solo where you can't find your teammates to ensure safety in an area, so you either have to run around looking for them like a headless chicken, or just accept that you could easily go down at any time. Exposed is fine because you actually have to work for it and it can be very much dealt with, although ghost face for example only has to sneak up on you at first, finding a good spot is important since you will have to be in a survivor's LOS to stalk them, and that gives them the option to reveal you. Meanwhile a hit and run strategy with a stealth killer is basically the same thing, except without needing to be within LOS for a continuous amount of time before attacking, and over an obviously much longer period of time. I'm not saying a killer should always commit to a chase, but the game should be changed in a way that encourages that. This kind of playstyle is horrifically uninteractive and punishes solos disproportionately.
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this is not true. this may have been a valid complaint before chase UI was introduced but it is not valid complaint now. You can tell when your teammate are being chased. When the killer leaves a chase, the chase UI will indicate that your teammate is not being chased. This was huge indirect nerf to stealth killers because previously, soloq had no information when a killer was inside a chase and when he was outside the chase. Now you do have that information. all you need to do is play passive. sometimes best play is not doing the gen and just waiting for the killer to re-enter the chase. Hit & run is counterable. it is just not an intuitive play-style to counter. Its similar to slugging. Its unorthodox play that requires out of the box gameplay.
Stealth killer like GF and Wraith are definitely designed around this ambush-type play-style. Myer's, Pig and Sadako also have stealth in their kit, but its purposely under-tuned due to mori mechanic. Those killer are in general under-tuned for regular gameplay but it is whatever. this type of gameplay is going nowhere. Previously there used to be instant-win type perks to counter this gameplay but now you have to learn to adapt to the play-style instead of relying on previous old perks that deleted the play-style entirely.
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So what? Whenever the hud show that nobody is being chased, everyone everywhere should just get off their gens? Especially when wraith and sadako in the next update can chase someone while cloaked/demanifested without it showing on the hud? Or should solos really just get the luxury that SWF has in countering this mindless playstyle? The fact is that swfs can just heal up and go back on the gen just fine without needing to use that info, and solos deserve to be able to as well. It's one thing when an ambush playstyle is in the form of someone like ghost face, who actually has to put effort into getting bang for his buck, but wraith sneaks up, gets a free injure on you, dips, then does the same thing again later for an easy down. It does not take effort. This kind of playstyle has no right being the way it is.
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if killer is not chasing, he is not doing anything productive to advance his objective. your taking a risk to get gen progression in favor of the killer getting a chance to ambush you. hit & run is not intuitive because doing generator is trap. stealth killer use generators as bait to get hits. After that, they attempt to use your altruistic gameplay against you. You want to heal after you get hit? Well guess what? they don't want you to heal and they want ambush you when you are healing because that is when you are most vulnerable.
Previously, Med-kit healing was so over-tuned and anti-stealth perks were so outrageous powerful that you didn't need to be any good vs hit & run. The perks and items auto-piloted you to the win. Now it is more of skill-based interaction between survivor and killer. you have to learn how to play against hit & run. use game-sense to know when killer is leaving chases. use vantage points to heal to not get ambushed. etc. there is still lack of information in term of finding teammates to heal quickly which is still an issue but that is why perks like Bond, Empathy, kindred and so on exists. Truthfully, you should not be forced to run aura perks to play soloq but that is another topic entirely separate from hit & run.
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Hit and run is bad because there's not enough chasing, but tunnelling is bad because there's too much chasing. There seems to be a teeny tiny window where Survivor players won't complain.
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I digress, if we agree on solos getting more help finding each other to heal up, then we agree to the full extent to which I want something done about this playstyle. If solos can reliably heal each other up, that's good enough for me as far as I can tell, because then hit and run is about delaying the game as opposed to getting downs, which is how it should be, because a strat like hit and run shouldn't progress the game for the killer, but I have no problem if it merely slows the survivors' progress down. I fully agree that being getting a hit should do something (notably, forcing a survivor to invest time into getting healed instead of working on a gen), which is why I don't at all defend old coh or medkits.
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on the contrary, hit & run is how stealth killers are entirely meant to progress the game. they don't chase. they ambush and play off altruistic mistakes and poor map awareness. there is element to stalling but it is entirely a win condition for those killers. in the list of killers, i forgot to mention that dredge is also ambush killer, but only during nightfall. he's kinda half chase, half ambush though i think his ambient sounds(lullaby) and long locker exits make him sort of not that great at hit & run against more coordinate experienced teams. The lack of information to find people healing is mostly soloq vs swf type imbalance that been in the game for long time. I cannot say anything other then I don't really think it is that healthy but it is part of the game at least until something changes.
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Well it shouldn't be, maps should be more in their favor as to encourage "following through" with the ambush, and not being forced into a game of hoping the survivors make a mistake (or hoping the survivors are uncoordinated as it is at the moment). But indeed that is how it is until something changes, that's why this is in feedback after all
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Tunneling isn't bad because there's too much chasing, getting tunneled can honestly be very fun. Problems are: none of your teammates get to experience chase, and pretty much are just subjected to sitting on gens, there's basically an inevitability of you dying, which sucks, and being vulnerable against some killers who already have very oppressive chase powers, sucks
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there are killer that had stealth and used stealth as follow-through mechanic to get first hit. those two being spirit and deathslinger. Spirit gains an advantage if she gets first hit and her power does promote chasing though I do not think many people think of spirit as hit & run but she does have 24 meter terror radius. Back before she had no directional audio cue, you could hit & run with spirit using phase-walk.
Deathslinger was also pseudo stealth killer with a chasing tool. People said monitor&abuse was unfun on deathslinger and they weaken his gun so he no longer has any real stealth capacity similar to spirit. Like spirit, he gained an advantage for getting the first hit as his gun would become a lethal tool when injured.
I think your thinking more of these two types of stealth killers that used to have hybrid between stealth and chase. the wraith and ghostface type stealth killer are pure hit & run and their viability hinges on that gameplay being viable. asking "it should never lead to downs, ever, reserve does for actual skilled play." means that those pure hit & run killer will never be strong. I think your just failing to adapt to the killer's gameplay.
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That is the most unique take on tunnelling I've ever seen. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way or anything, I've just never seen someone essentially say, "Tunnelling is fun, I wish my team was having as much fun as I am." I'll let you get back to the topic at hand, I just thought it was certainly a novel take.
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I get what you mean but that is one of my least problems of the game. Camping is far worse, even tunneling. Hit and run has become better to counter with the new perk Made for This. I wouldn't put too much energy on this 'problem'. But as I just posted, created different game modes and change the perks per game mode. Then it will become more balanced!
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I want players to only be able to play in the single particular way I personally enjoy the most.
I want to run around a loop structure 50 times until I can drop the pallet and move to the next loop and repeat until my team mates complete all the gens. (This is not boring for them, but it is boring for me)
Killers should understand this and make the poor decision to commit to unbeatable chases.
I don't want to have to consider my surroundings and look out for ambush killers. This is boring to me and thus destroying the game, probably causes cancer too.
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sure just remove every killer strat in the game. its not like I play killer anymore. BHVR has made playing killer extremely unfun with all the map reworks and increased clutter. Nothing like being in chase and getting stuck on the smallest little object you can't even see on the ground with the crap fov. The nerfing of nearly all regression perks. The existence of made for this. etc.
You better hope killer bots come soon because I don't see many of us stick around much longer if bhvr doesn't get their act together sooner than later.
Then you got some mod around here that has deleted some posts of mine that broke absolutely no guidelines and didn't receive any indication or warning. They were just gone. For no reason whatsoever.
think my time in the fog will be coming to an end and that is all on bhvr for not listening to the players and the community feedback.
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Stacking gen regression, nerfed
End game builds, nerfed
Camping, nerfed
3-gen, best perks nerfed, will get nerfed more
Hit&run is supposed to get nerfed too now?
You really want to get tunneled, don't you?
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This post appear when I play lots of matches with pig with her addon to see auras in 16m when I in stealth, what a coincidence...
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Your problem with Hit and Run is the fact that it takes forever to heal now and usually those killers bring Sloppy Butcher as well.
If anything you need good positioning and good awareness. If you don't get hit the first time you probably can make them commit somewhat (and anyone who's playing stealthy will probably attempt a grab at a gen or something which is worse), most of the time they don't play perfect either.
I personally always try to find out who the killer is as soon as spawn in the map to avoid stealthy plays, so I just move to the center of the map and try to find any sign of the killer. Also SB helps a lot against the first hit, you also need to be aware of your surroundings to know where to head in case they show up.
I dunno how strong hit and run is atm when played right, so I'm just going to say that there should be some diversity in game play. Not all killers should play the same. Find survivors chase survivor for 40+ sec - down survivor - hook - look for someone else, rise and repeat, because that's what you're essentially asking for. To homogenize killer gameplay. I don't think variety is bad as long as you and your team have reliable tools to play against it and does not require bullshit counters such as being in a SWF to do.
Also Spinechill gamers were the most spineless teammates I have ever gotten, nect to Urban Evasion ones. They won't continue working on a generator until their perk stops lighting up and waste a lot of precious time hiding and waiting for the killer to leave, they take no risks whatsoever and they also can't loop to save their lives. If they were at least gen jockies I could be like ok, at least they do gens, but even when it comes to gens they are extremely inefficient. I'm glad to see this perk go in its current form. What is not ok is giving it nothing as compensation, it'll be trash after the changes.
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I'm confused, what exactly are killers supposed to do?
Gen regression = bad, we should be able to genrush
Tunneling = bad, killer should have to 12 hook every game
Camping = bad, I should be able to get a free save every game
Slugging = bad, I don't like having to get off a gen to go pick up someone
Blight/Nurse/Wesker = bad, I should be able to camp pallets and be completely safe
Hit and run = bad, I don't like having to heal to work safely on gens
What tools do killers have left? You can't nerf your way to an easy win every time.
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Hit and run is sometimes needed if the other survivors are running gen progression builds, your build requires multiple harmed survivors, or you need to apply as much pressure as possible.
I swear I see people complain killers chase survivors too long and now killers focus multiple survivors too much.
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There really should not be this many comments that I can validly respond to with literal pictures from the post, lmao
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but getting an easy injure off gives an advantage in chase in itself. also ghost face is hardly a hit and run killer anyways, he has stalks and marks and all that, playing him like wraith is hardly a good idea with his lack of mobility and his recharge. also....yeah, a pure hit and run killer shouldnt be strong and really shouldnt exist unless maps and whatnot become more in a chase powerless killers favor, depends on however that whole thing works out. and u gotta realize thats how things would be anyways if solos had better info, theyd easily be able to heal up in safe areas and you probably wouldnt be able to get a down without commiting to a chase after getting an injure, assuming the survivors play it well that is
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my problem with hit and run is moreso that solos cant reliably play safely vs hit and run, and have to make a lot of random guesses and take risks when they really shouldnt have to. i dont mind variety either mind u, but this playstyle of just sneaking up on survivors for downs is just absurd. and chases themselves have variety between killers btw
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ik that, but it shouldnt be, u should be able to commit to chases without immediately losing the game vs good players
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For anyone willing to answer, would you care if they simply buffed solos to have easier access to finding each other to heal? Because that's pretty much all I want in regards to this
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but getting an easy injure off gives an advantage in chase in itself.
no it does not. it just removes second-chance. there is no anti-loop from the killer when being injured. being injures mean nothing to the killer till you go down. In the face of all those safe pallet loops and strong window vaults. being 1 hit means nothing if you do not get hit. If anything, the survivor was more powerful when injured in the past because Iron will and old DH empowered for staying injured. those perks got changed but new version of being rewarded for injured is MFT. your odds of hitting survivor go down. not up. the chases are harder when the survivor is injured. I bet some player would describe it as survivor gaining anti-loop towards killer powers but that is a weird interpretation.
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uhhh...no... in case u forgot, when chasing a healthy person, they become injured, and then get all those possible benefits, but only after getting that first hit on them which could take ages if they react to a terror radius. and after whatever effort it took to get a first hit on them, they only become injured. if they start injured....then the next hit on them will be a down. sure theres all the pallets and whatever trash map design there is while they're injured, but thats no different then when theyre healthy? suffice it to say getting a down on an injured survivor is easier than getting a down on a healthy survivor, im pretty sure thats kinda just objectively true tbh, except in the cases of instadown killers which we're not really talking about so, yeah
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after whatever effort it took to get a first hit on them, they only become injured. if they start injured....then the next hit on them will be a down.
you described hit & run. issue is that good player have awareness and will put themselves into positions where it is difficult to instant down them. It is not that easy to hit & run a coordinate team. that is why I said that stealth killer are kinda of newbie-stomp killers. loops are just as strong when healthy as they are when your injured. I believe only Spirit and Oni punish staying injured but spirit has directional audio cue & Oni's ability has too many restricts like too long artificial cooldown build-up, punished for downing, slugging not being rewarding and somewhat unrewarded skill-curve compare to blight. being injured in dbd has no real risks if you play around it correctly.
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