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Is disabling hooks still warranted?
When a survivor gets sacrificed to the entity, the hook disappears unless it's a basement hook, and sadly this sometimes creates dead zones in the map that can prevent killers from being able to hook a survivor should they not have a perk to help aid in that situation.
Without hooks a killer cannot complete their objective. While this isn't prevalent in every match, it still proves to happen far too often. It's also especially frustrating once survivors realize this and run to that exact dead zone to prevent being hooked.
I think this should be changed. Keeping hooks in place would be far easier than rebalancing a whole map. What are your thoughts?
Answers
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Yeah, its dumb that hooks get permanently destroyed for this very reason.
2 -
I'm not a huge fan of the mechanic myself. It creates more frustration than the problems it's intended to solve.
5 -
Survivors need to keep 3-genning in mind
killer need to do the same with hooks
11 -
And on maps like midwich or ironworks of misery which can literally have 1 hook in a area? (One of the times i played midwich there was only 3 hooks upstairs making it so when you got rid of one impossible. People have even found an entire hallway with no hook at all. Ironworks of misery the entire middle building only has 1 hook inside of it if basements not there. So if someone dies on it (which survivors can easily force) you have the slug the rest hanging upstairs. (Rcpd had this problem to with the library). Its why sabo builds have been such a popular thing for troll teams.
3 -
I would argue that being smart about where you hook survivors is impossible to do. Killers go where survivors go, which means killers are at the mercy of hooking wherever a survivor is downed, and if there are no hooks in the area, then completing your objective becomes impossible to do.
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Generally speaking, this only becomes an issue at two or more kills, and at that point, you're already winning. That said, hook spawns in general need to be carefully curated.
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Outdated feature that only causes problems. Should be removed.
3 -
not really, no
0 -
No longer true. Ironworks does not have complete deadzone (if you know how to stagger survivor into super-quick down) - talking main AND midwitch got changed in around patch 6.5 and no longer has any hook-missing spots (they added about +50% or more hooks and made the spread more even - making it instantly about average or even slightly worse map for sabotages compared to the best map in the game).
Usually it's the other way around - some maps have such a dense hook spawn, that even perfect sabotage with bodyblock is not enough to rescue teammate (saloon, gideon, Lery's come to mind as an examples).
Unfortunatelly devs won't do anything about it, because sabotages are not very popular (because they are generally bad even though they are fun) so there's very few voices asking to fix them
2 -
1) it helps prevent camping killers from being able to abuse that same hook
2) just as survivors finishing their objectives makes it riskier (less gens to do means less gens for the killer to patrol) so too is true of the killer (less survivors to worry about but less hooks to utilize)
3) hooks very rarely spawn in a dead zone - I’ve never even seen it myself when I’ve played killer. They are so plentiful you can easily walk from one to the next without a survivor wiggling free.
4) there are many ways to just bypass the hook sacrifice altogether. Moris are very common. Executioner, Onryo, Shape, and Pig all have powers/add-on that allow them to kill without it. A lot of killers slug anyway so if you’re afraid of a dead zone they can still bleed out… not to mention Devour Hope and Rancor are very powerful perks that allow you to kill when conditions are met. Even Blood Warden can be a confirmed death sentence for anyone left if you hook a survivor at the right time. And of course the basement hooks always stay…
Losing at most 3 hooks isn’t going to negatively affect your game enough that this mechanic would even need to be considered for a rework.
3 -
Any Killer wanting hooks to stay up on kill, I ask for you to play 10 Survivor matches and try to get value by Sabo'ing. Any build, any tactics, just keep track of how often you actually prevent the hook AND the person gets free, by either allied pickup or shoulder drop to injured (without you or the saved Survivor going down quickly afterward). When you realize how pathetic sabo is, then you'll realize it was only 1 bad match that made you think hooks deleting on kill is bad, not a regular effective occurrence.
It is a basekit mechanic to help against camping deliberate 3 gens, and little more. Even then, the amount it 'helps' is very little. Overall it is a macro skill, as others mentioned, that mirrors Survivor's 3 genning themselves. A Killer only falls prey to this when they make a mistake, whereas a Survivor can't kick a fellow Surv off a bad gen (Looking at anyone that does the Saloon gen on Dead Dawg before 1/2 gens remain). Hook removal on death forces meaningful macro decisions like "Do I get the corner/Scourge hook to save time, or take the further hook to prepare for the worst?" It allows for greater skill distinction between the new recruit Killer and the Killer who has played the game for hundreds or thousands of hours.
2 -
Others have made good points already, and I'm in the camp where I don't really see a problem with it. I see it as something that promotes intelligent use of hooks, especially scourge hooks. I have on occasion decided to pick a further away hook to ensure I still have an option in a particular zone.
Besides it's very rare I find myself in a position where I can't hook, but every now and again it is possible for the survivor to escape if I get too greedy or tunnel visioned. This I think is healthy, it rarely happens but its something the killer ignores at his own risk... It should be possible to break free every now and again if the killer plans poorly, and breaking all your hooks in one place is a good way to do it.
I had this problem recently where I took out 2 nearby hooks in 1 corner without thinking about it, and had 2 survivors left on Thompson House. As I downed one the other sabo'd the hook I was carrying to, and it was a long walk already, so I had to throw the player I was carrying down, as I wouldn't make it to a hook anymore, even if it respawned he would still break my hold.
I chased the sabo player, and they ran to the corner where my 2 hooks were destroyed, and I downed him. Pretty smart.... I knew I couldn't pick him up either and hook... so I had no choice but to leave them both on the floor to bleed out, and neither could get out cause 2 were still alive.
Ironically if I he not sabo'd and left his teammate to die, this might have worked and he might have been able nab a hatch off me. Point is, this is fine to remain.
1 -
So? They want to be slugged, let them lol
Better for you anyway cuz you don't have to waste time carrying them
2 -
Agree, tbh if hook destruction is removed, then gen auras should too to make it fair
1 -
Ah yes, defending bad design with perk/specific killers.
Gens can't move, hooks get deleted. Survivors can walk to a terrible area that has one hook deleted in order to struggle off.
There is no comparison.
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Hooks can't move, gens get completed. There's precisely perfect comparison. Also - there's never ever a spot on a map where just 1 hook is the possibility. It's always at least 2. So if you delete one and then get the other one sabotaged, that's your fault (same way as creating 3gen for any killer that does not guard it from 1st second of match is survivor's fault).
Post edited by Gandor on1 -
Actually no, while it's less common these days there are comp corners where only one viable hook is located.
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Show me the map and condition. Because I am pretty certain this is not a case any more basically anywhere. Even on maps like swamp and going for corner - there's 1 hook in that corner and you can still get to the other one that's bit more far away - at least when you know where you are going
1 -
I mean it's not like I have clips to show you on hand. But I have seen it in other peoples clips and seldom on my own.
Again it is possible, just not common.
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the answer to your question: is it justified that a repaired generator cannot be repaired again
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Of all the things I mentioned, yeah, that’s probably the weakest argument but only because it’s far easier to 3 gen survivors than it is to get deadzoned on hooks.
It’s not a bad design just because you don’t like it. If you’re such a horrible player that this mechanic is causing you so much grief it’s probably time to find something else to do with your time.
And why shouldn’t I bring up specific perks and killers? They factor in. Every killer can mori so what’s your point? Perks, add-ons and offerings only help circumvent something that is already super easy to accomplish.
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