Onryo's Skill Ceiling has been Butchered
Everything I feared has come to pass. Cheesing people with condemned has never been more brainless. It only takes 5 easy steps:
- Equip Iridescent Video Tape + Mother's Comb.
- Spam teleports until someone picks up a tape.
- Intercept and hit them before they can dispose of their tape thanks to Mother's Comb revealing where they are. And Iridescent Video Tape forcing them to run to the furthest TV.
- Go back to teleporting until that survivor is fully condemned. Then kill them.
- Repeat steps 2-4 until everyone is dead.
I've never felt less deserving of a kill since playing new Sadako. You no longer have to care about distance, timing, or risk-reward when going for condemn kills. It's so bloody easy now.
Condemn Only Onryo is now stronger but also much easier to play. Effectively making it so you get better results for less effort. Making Sadako feel extremely unsatisfying to play.
Oh. And Reiko's Watch is still nerfed. Because despite Onryo being dead she's still getting beaten like a rented mule.
Comments
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Yeah I played against it a couple of times this morning. The 2 stacks is a little overkill. Being able to put someone into a mori state at 5 gens from just spamming your power is Skull Merchant tier design failure
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I couldn't agree more. What were they thinking?
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I went up against that and literally don't want to face another Onryo again.
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I disagree. the survivor has fair counter-play in looping the killer. Sadako's mori feel more earned now because they're more about capitalizing on survivors positioning errors and looping.
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Yes lots of counter-play. I cannot counter Onryos that teleport to every available TV in a small map. I got fully condemned with zero hook states as I ran around trying to find any TV that wasn't disabled.
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oh boy. Is this buffed wraith 2.0? new players dying at 5 gens.... so therefore wraith over-performing. /shrug.
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the data clearly shows that sadako has a 68% kill rate time to remove her TVs
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Lol these posts have been split between her being severely overpowered and severely underpowered
Although I agree the change is a little braindead
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The funny thing is I don't think this change made her that much stronger. Just stupidly easy to play.
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It can be both.
Sadako has had 2 powers.
Her manifesting which allows her to go undetectable with a lullaby and phase which can help her caught survivors off guard at tiles.
Her TVs and Condemn since condemn happens via interactions with the TV.
They made using her manifestation/demanifestation and TVs for scouting weaker, it's way easier for survivors to shut down her TVs and harder for her to really catch survivors off guard due to chase ending immediately.
However, with an Iri Addon (really the same issue as before) you can focus on stacking condemn and force out kills without ever really engagng in chase and this was made easier.
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There's nothing fair or earned about mindless hitting the teleport button every 10 seconds.
Before you had to actually decide which TV has worth teleporting to since survivors would only get condemned within 16 meters of the teleport. Now that it's map-wide there's no reason not to teleport as often as possible.
How could you possibly argue against this change? It ruins the skill expression of the character.
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yes this had big problem which was that maps that were small and had double floor such as Gideon's meat packing plant were way stronger for her while big maps were struggle.
Map dependency for a killer is not good. the changes addresses that. She is less map dependant as a result of the changes.
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The solution for Onryo being stronger on certain maps isn't to remove all nuance from her power. That just makes her less interesting to play on every map rather than a select few.
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there is still nuance. it is different nuance. condemn kills are easy because survivor have not adapted to the changes. it always takes longer for survivor to adapt playing against the killer then it takes killer to optimize a strategy. the killer is always playing one killer. the survivor has to play against 32 possible killers. learning to play against 32 killers takes a lot longer then learning one killer.
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There is no nuance.
You want to have a tape at all times because it's the only way to stop yourself from being condemned. Sadako cannot be everywhere at once. So the threat of being condemned if she hits you is significantly less than the getting condemned every 10 seconds no matter where you are.
There's nothing interesting to learn here. It's a binary choice that you either know to make, or you don't.
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You don't know me. Don't assume I'm new. Probably have more hours than you.
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I think it would be perfectly fine for it to protect you from condemned just as long as you’re not able to do any gens or anything, and have an option to drop the tape in exchange for two stacks of condemned
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taking tape is not nuance but learning to manage risk of the tape is nuance. survivors want to avoid getting hit by the m1 when holding a tape. there is looping nuance to the kit. when survivors pick-up tapes and they want to get rid of the condemn stacks. they need to play stealthy to avoid detection to sneakily put tapes into the TV. In old version of sadako, survivor's condemn stacks would increase as they held tapes. this means that the longer you take to hold-tape, the more you were punished. once 7 stacks occurs, the killer receives killer instinct notification of your location. this punished you for stealth. now you are rewarded for careful and meticulous gameplay when removing condemn using the tapes. there is a lot of nuance for survivor to play vs ability just as much as there is for the killer to optimize the ability to mori survivors.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
*circus music plays softly in the background*
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I played one today doing exactly this and never want to play against her ever again
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They killed her only playstyle and added almost the same one just without slug? well this is what you get when you're in a short time schedule and have to release a patch quickly.. rather than actually investing resources on a better rework all we got was this. When they nerf this (and most likely they will) I wonder what she will have left after this "rework"
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So much for a nerf. I can tell yall I had a blast playing her today. Didn’t use any of the cheese being described here either.
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Literally all you have to do is pick up a tape. Lord almighty, why is this so hard? This gives you an aegis shield against her condemn unless she physically hits you. She has no chase power. Don't be awful at looping. Get into a locker if necessary. This counters her hitting tape.
Post edited by frozzenk on3 -
Chill man its just a game
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I am aware it's just a game. Like I am aware that your comment is just reductive to the discussion of the game's balance.
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Your entire comment is complete nonsense that I'm not going to engage with since you've ignored all of my points.
How about you show some gameplay, even a clip running at 30 FPS with a watermark will do, and you can tell me exactly what is happening in the game that is so "nuanced".
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what points. you have no points.
Spam teleports until someone picks up a tape.
Intercept and hit them before they can dispose of their tape thanks to Mother's Comb revealing where they are. And Iridescent Video Tape forcing them to run to the furthest TV.
Go back to teleporting until that survivor is fully condemned. Then kill them.
If your referring to these points. these points are a joke. When everyone holds tape, spamming teleport is 0 condemn. Sadako is m1 killer with weak chase. you can loop sadako like any conventional m1 killer. The longer survivor loops without getting hit. the more time your team has to do generators. The 4th point I do not understand what you mean by teleporting until survivor is condemned. the survivor will take another tape and continue to stay immune to teleport's.
There is no nuance.
You want to have a tape at all times because it's the only way to stop yourself from being condemned. Sadako cannot be everywhere at once. So the threat of being condemned if she hits you is significantly less than the getting condemned every 10 seconds no matter where you are.
Your last point is this non-sense which is that there is no nuance to the gameplay. I said the nuance of the gameplay is managing risks of holding a tape. when you have no stacks as survivor, you only have to worry about not getting hit with the tape because your not in danger of dying. When you have stacks, you take tapes and deposit them in televisions without sadako intercepting you. you do that through stealth.
I did not bother address any of your post because it made little sense.
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All the Onryo's I went against since the patch just spam teleport to build condemned and easily mori you in a few minutes. So far no engaging gameplay.
It's like they looked at Onryo's playstyles and said how can we promote the most unfun, obnoxious playstyle that makes people want to quit the game.
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I wish they kept the old condemning mechanic. It was really good, it just needed tweaks:
- the post-projection cooldown on TVs should have been much lower, so there would be no need for the old iri addon
- potentially make the (new) ring drawing basekit.
Old sadako, without the awful TV cooldowns, and without the need to rely on specific addons to make the condemning viable, would have been a win imo. That's all they needed to do. I agree that now she doesn't seem like a tactical killer with high skill ceiling anymore. She is a killer where all you do is spam teleport and get easy kills. I really hope that they revert this change and implement the small tweaks like the ones I listed above.
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Pretty much seems like it. I thought I'd never see the day WRAITH got nerfed.
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Onryo's an instant disconnect for me now. I don't want to spend my match only on the ground,unable to do anything. Hens' recent video showed very good teams struggling against her. We had a good framework on the PTB,now it got butchered.
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Hey, I was only repeating what every survivor main and every killer main says to me when I talk about the balance of the game lol. I guess now that Sadako is doing a bit better it's not just a game anymore huh? don't worry she will be nerfed in a week or less we can't keep the survivors unhappy for to long. Killers, enjoy every moment while you can because you know the nerf is coming lol.
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There is one, you are just uncapable of doing it, judging by your "she just spam teleport to build condemned and easily mori you" report. Don't blame the game for your own shortcomings. Read my previous post if you are lost somehow.
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Unironically yes. You can't take a tape from TV that is blocked. You can't finish taking a tape from tv where sadako ports. Sadako now spams her TP. I was unable to find single working tv on saloon when trying to do so from 2 stacks...
The killer IS broken right now
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Sorry I don't care to or have the time to be sweaty in DbD. I got things to do. Onryo's an instant disconnect for me until they fix her. I'd rather go next.
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this is insane build...
i just request a killer main streamer to play with this build and he get 4 condemn kill, 3 gen remaining.
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1882218432?t=03h29m38s
Look at all these competent SWFs with coms that apparently have problems with just "picking up the tape". Its almost as if there is more to the game than this meaningless statement.
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Yet this was an issue because her condemn had zero impact on the match. Getting a survivor to even use your tape was a miracle that never happened and her chase power was just a bad excuse where you could rather play Wraith or even Ghostface for a similar effect.
If they think this mechanic is too strong then they maybe should consider tweaking some of her numbers (condemn amount per teleport etc.). However the general idea is still good and making her condemn map-wide was not a bad change as now survivors finally have to deal with it outside of her slugging-condemn build.
She is out for one day and those survivors if they are at Hens level are probably not used to play against any Onryo other than 1-2 one-tricks or challenges. I do not doubt their skill but even they need time to adapt to the changes and the Killers they are facing. Wraith was considered to be over the top too and in hindsight the change to him was too much as survivor have it pretty easy against him.
Back then competent survivors also had to figure out a way to deal with him however the change happened before they could get use to it and show that he was by no means overpowered.
Sadako right now is basically a new killer for most people and cries that she is OP are just as valuable as the cries back then for Nemesis when people complained about him having to hit you three times with his tentacle...give them a bit more time to get used to these changes.
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Please, stop with these ridiculous arguments of "people just need to get used to it". There is literally nothing to get used to, the fact that you are comparing Sadakos constant global pressure to killers that actually have to chase you is silly.
The fact is right now survivors have to run around the map and find a TV that is powered on (with no aura to tell them the locations), pick-up a tape, depending on their current condemn level they might have to dispose of it immediately in another TV and then they have to go off AGAIN finding a new tape, all the while worrying about Sadako finding them and destroying their tape, while also trying to heal slugged people and doing gens. This is not a short mini-game that slows you down like Pig, it's a full time commitment that requires insane amount of coordination and communication that no solo queue players will ever reach, let alone "get used to".
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No, you see new Onryo is trash. This forum told me so.
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I think her basekit is pretty much fine but these addons are not ok in any regard. Iridescent Videotape especially needs a nerf ASAP.
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Seriously why did they make her condemned work like this. They made it so the best way to play her involves not getting into chase with anyone, just following people like a murderous puppydog to ensure you can't ever put away a tape. You can't even get away from her either, because the TV's are spaced so close together she'll always be able to teleport to one next to you. It's a lose lose either way.
Why didn't they buff her actual chase powers and ambush capability? Why did they REMOVE BLOODLUST while demanifested, discouraging you from using her power in chase? She feels awful to play as and against.
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At this point why don't survivors just come out and say I want a free win killer with no power, no strategy, and no challenge?
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