In defense of Adrenaline

Survivors gotta run. Running leave scratch mark.

The perk only work on Zarina's map, where it has a lot of bushes to hide after taking a hit from OTR. Other wise, example if you're on other maps like Lery, killers hit you off hook, disable both BT and OTR endurance, tell me how do you get a use of your hiding aura and grunting when killer chasing 10m behind you?

I thought OTR is strong, but it isnt. It has alot of things that make it sounds strong, but it isnt.

The tunneling I’m talking about is doing it at the complete start of the match and only targeting one survivor and ignoring the others. This completely ruins the experience of that survivor as they get very little BP and it also doesn’t help the killer player improve at all. It’s a cheap and scummy tactic that can be combatted with comms but what are solos supposed to do?

End game camping and tunneling is fine. Even seeing an opportunity to get someone out of the game with 1 or 2 gens left isn’t that bad too me.

You really lost me there on the last points.

Solos, especially new solos will need time to learn how to loop - most can’t do that when they’re tunnelled out repeatedly which can be demoralising and demotivating to continue playing. The ones that inevitably do, get so good that they now have an axe to grind with killers and who I’ve stomped them and end up toxic - and that cycle starts. I believe the cycle of toxicity starts because of such killer stompability and BMing on low level survivors. I can’t remember who but someone else on the forum put it well: lower level MMR the worst killer toxicity and the higher level MMR had the worst survivor toxicity.

I disagree that Solos “are supposed to loop better” or the notion (sadly) that they will be happy to gladly be tunnelled as long as they can with low bp for the rest of the team.. you can only really expect that from swf.

The thing is, OTR may have 3 good effects but they barely come into play.

If you are not being tunneled, it doesnt matter if your aura cant be seen or your grunts of pain not heard for 80sec because the killer will be chasing another survivor and you will be healed.

If you are being tunneled, the killer usually proxy camps the hook so they will see you being unhooked, hit you while having BT making you lose endurance and the aura and grunt of pain will barely be useful if the killer is chasing you closely.

So OTR needs you to be in that perfect grey area where you are tunneled enough to use the effects of aura and grunt of pain and endurance, but not so hard tunneled that the killer is already with you by the time you are being unhooked.

It's not fine at all it completely kills the endgame, if 3-4 survivors are running adrenaline its almost always a guaranteed 4 escape. The game shouldn't end when the gens are powered.

I don't believe the devs have ever said getting tunneled is fun or engaging gameplay though, just that it isn't against the rules. 'Bad' encompasses more than just exploits or unintentional gameplay interactions. I would argue that unfun gameplay and the frustration of being able to do nothing during a match but go from hook to hook might not be 'wrong' but is something that makes it fair to say the killer is playing like a jerk.

One thing to consider is that the game is designed in a way that makes it mostly up to the killer so far as whether you are downed once they see you. Occasionally a survivor will lose me in chase if they're set up for stealth, know the map well, and are in area that allows for effective, post-LOS break plays but the vast majority of chases that don't result in downs are because I chose to end chase to maintain gen pressure or get an easier down. If I was tunnelling then there is no choice to make and that survivor will likely be going down.

The only thing that mitigates how unfun it is from a survivor perspective is the fact that not every single killer does it. If they did, I would just stick to killer and not bother queueing up for survivor - bp bonus or no.

inventing scenarios? Tunneling is what i see most in my games. at least half of my games consist of killers tunneling someone at 5 gens so it's safe to say that i know what kind of attitude does the killer have in those situations.

You are also assuming that the unhooker is always in a position that can help you deal with a killer tunneling.

What about if you are going against a nurse, that can literally blink through the unhooked and hit you?

or a wesker hitting you by dashing against a unhooker hitting both?

or a bubba, that can chainsaw through the unhooker and hit you after?

or a spirit phasing behind you both

what about the unhooker is injured, because perks like sloppy exist and you cant always heal before a teammate dies.

you can also be hooked in a deadzone.

There are dozens of situations where the unhooker cant cover you, that's why OTR, an anti-tunneling perk, should not require another person help to do what it is meant to do.

"The endurance portion isn't COUNTERED by hard tunneling" it is, the 80sec of endurance means nothing if you can lose it 5sec after unhook as all endurance effects cant stack together.

"At the end of the day, unless you're really able to run the killer well, you'll probably die" i agree, but you are better off using perks to extend chase like resilience or MfT or adrenaline instead of the perk that is supposed to save you from these.

"Let's not forget that you can also combine OTR with DS+DH for the double Endurance whammy for complete antitunnel value" Look, if you need not one, not two but three perks to have a slight chance to survive one of the most common tactics killer use today, that alone speak volumes of how these "antitunnel" perks barely do anything at all.

Not against the rules or a perfectly valid strategy mean the same thing in context of what my point was. Neither statement precludes something being unfun, unfair, or otherwise bad.

I never said a killer was a jerk for tunnelling, just that the behavior is jerkish. I never said a killer wanting to win was toxic. I disagree that tunnelling is necessary to win if that's the argument there. I never tunnel and aside from a handful of games with really good survivors, the only times I don't get 3 or 4Ks are when I choose to go easy or let people go. I can only remember a couple of games where I didn't at least get a 1K and was actually trying. Doing something in the pursuit of winning doesn't then shield that behavior from criticism. Is your argument that getting tunneled is fun for the survivor player or that it doesn't matter because the killer thought it would help them win?

Unless there's an infinite loop hidden somewhere I'm not aware of, there is no playing better to loop the killer forever. Again, we're discussing tunneling here so this killer is not breaking chase. I'm not an amazing survivor, but I'm not new either - I'm capable of looping. What I can't do is spawn pallets out of my butt or convince the killer to move the chase to a more advantageous tile.

The survivor that sat on a gen from 0 to 100% was a survivor that the killer never chased off the gen. Survivors have one objective that directly contributes to their win condition - generators. A killer that plays to pressure gen progression and have kills/hooks come while doing that is going to have an easier time than one who mainly focuses on getting kills and wonders why survivors keep getting gens they aren't patrolling done. A killer can't tunnel a survivor and then act surprised the other survivors were working on the only objective that matters in the mean time.

There's a clear difference between survivors going to different gens and tunnelling. Survivors can't make the killer do anything and can't knock the killer out of the game. Again I ask - are you arguing being tunneled is fun? Are you arguing that whether someone does it to win is what makes whether it's fun or not relevant? Are you arguing that in a game no one is paid to play, whether one side has fun or not is irrelevant?

The entitlement goes both ways it seems. Arguing that someone else's experience is beneath consideration so long as they aren't affected is pretty entitled and a little short sighted. If enough matches are frustrating enough for one side then the other side is going to have some fun queue times.

So far as my MMR, I don't know what it is any more than you know what yours is. I will point out that if someone averages mostly 3 and 4Ks they aren't staying at the same MMR. All the pallets in the world are irrelevant if they're not anywhere near you. Same with strong jungle gym configurations. You can't outrun the killer - full stop. The only escape against a killer that can loop as well or better than you is if the killer chooses to break chase. There are no more infinites. Again, since this discussion is about tunnelling then the killer isn't going to break chase. If they did, they aren't tunnelling and then what are we even talking about?

If you think other survivors are on generators that you can't afford to have pop, then yes - you should break chase and get them regressing. You can kill a survivor whenever you want. You can only prevent a gen from popping before it's complete. Proxy camping is a double edged sword unless you've managed to set up a really tight 3 gen setup. You're choosing to secure one likely kill in exchange for giving a time advantage to the remaining survivors. They may or may not take you up on your exchange.

sigh🤦‍♂️, it is obvious that we will never reach an agreement but i'll answer one last time.

Call these 'invented scenarios' or whatever, this does not change the fact that any killer receives a notification when a survivor is unhooked and many killers dont bother trying to chase another survivors and choose to go back to the hook to tunnel. This happens, and it happens A LOT, if you dont agree i cant do nothing for you.

Any of the situations i gave you are situations were any killer can bypass the unhooker and hit you regardless because YOU suggested that the unhooker can escort you to a safe pallet to make this perk work, it does not mean OTR cant give you any kind of advantage in chase but ultimately it will not save your life.

OTR has nothing to do with a nurse, you may survive a little more if you are able to reach some loop with high walls that lets you lose LOS but that's it. as i said before, you have more chances of reaching that loop if you slap chase perks like MFT/Lithe/Resilience rather than OTR. and if she has aura reading perks, you are truly better by using distortion that is better than OTR because it also hides your scratch marks.

Dodge a wesker? if i am telling you that the wesker is dashing through the unhooker i obviously meant a situation where i can't possibly dodge the hit. Seriouly, i dont need to be pointing out that a wesker can close the distance with the 2 dashes in seconds and make you deep wounded by hitting the unhooker. In that case, you are losing OTR the moment you are unhooked.

" Either way, if you get unhooked with a fully revved Bubba in your face, there's no perk in the game (outside DS) that will save you." that's what i mean, even while using OTR with its 3 strong effects, you will still die if the bubba decides to go back to the hook to tunnel you.

"Spirit? Good luck to the Spirit player considering sound is her primary cue while in power and you're now completely quiet. OTR slaps Spirit the hardest out of any killer." Good luck finding a good spirit who is not using MDR + DCB combo so they can go fast and see the killer instinct when they are close. Dried cherry blossom screws over OTR like nothing.

Resilience and mft will allow you to reach others loops better than OTR, and create more distance instead of hoping that OTR does not get useless after 5 sec.

"OTR doesn't require another person to do what it does, but a person taking a hit helps conserve your Endurance and helps you be much harder to tunnel." but it does require another person to be effective, if you didnt need another survivor to cover or hope that the killer is not tunneling you hard enough that you lose endurance 5 sec in OTR would be so much better.

"If your unhooker is unhooking while injured and the killer doesn't take the free down, they're stupid. And if they decide to tunnel afterwards, you have Endurance." but they usually dont take free down, they will slug the unhooker and go for the tunnel anyway to ensure you are out of the game as soon as possible.

"If you get hooked in a deadzone, that's your problem. No perk in the game is gonna save you there." it should, if i am using a perk slot to avoid being tunneled i would expect at least to be able to reach a loop where i can try to do a mindgame.

"Yes, you can lose it after 5 seconds, or you can lose it after 60 seconds. Depends on how you decide to use it. A lot of killers will instantly drop the tunnel if they hear OTR. However, if you play like most OTR users and use it offensively, don't whine about being tunneled in post-game." and that's the problem, whether you lose it instantly or after 60 sec truly boils down to the killer so if he is tunneling you hard enough you lose your protection at the same time you lose BT. and then i have the typical killer main response of "you are using it offensively" like you have actually see me using it.

My point is that OTR does not help you when you actually need it. That you require the killer to not be tunneling you hard enough so you can actually make use of its effects which is a terrible take for a perk that tries to help you avoid being tunneled. it shouldnt have an endurance effect so the killer can nullify it when they hit you with BT.

That was REALLY bad when Freddy had to put you to sleep b4 being able to touch you.

Apparently I need to be overly literal with my words. You can down a survivor whenever you want. You don’t need to down THIS survivor right now if chasing others off gens will buy you more time to get more hooks. The game favors survivors at the start of the match and the killer at the end because of resource usage across the map, knowledge (or lack of knowledge) of where people are, and everyone starting out with full health.

So far as calling behavior scummy, the definition for this informal use is despicable; contemptible. As these are subjective judgements made based on how others see or are affected by a behavior, the term fits whether the person engaging in the behavior likes it or not. It is by nature not their call.

Everywhere that isn’t a dead zone isn’t safe and full of god pallets. Not going down in a dead zone doesn’t mean the killer can’t get you if they decide to tunnel you out. It helps, sure - but you’re still probably going back to a hook.

It’s also worth noting that a killer’s win condition doesn’t start a a 4K. Any survivor escaping doesn’t mean the killer ‘lost’. The vast majority of games are not against SWFs. I myself only play solo q. Let’s say you’re right - that in high end matches the tactic is necessary. What is that - 5% of all matches, tops? Let’s give it a wide berth and say 10%. So now, 90% of all players can just shut up and deal with it? I don’t think so.

Let me be clear about something I think you misunderstand from my argument - I have no problem with one side playing to win - that’s what you do in a game. I don’t think ‘because I did it to win’ functions as some blanket shield from a behavior being criticized nor do I think tunneling is the only way you can possibly win in the vast majority of scenarios.

Unless I’m missing something, I don’t see where you addressed why pressuring gens isn’t a valid tactic that reduces the need to tunnel. I saw where you jumped ahead to the end of the tunnel and explained why you need to keep tunneling at that point but not why you started the tunnel rather than apply gen pressure in the first place.

Adrenaline is fine the way it is, and survivors should keep the 5-second sprint.

I was just telling someone after I found out that Spine Chill was gutted, they are probably going to come after Adrenaline next. When DBD gutted healing, killers immediately started running the health regression builds. Of course, in that situation, survivors are going to gen rush with an end-game escape option. As far as four people using Adrenaline, I mean, hopefully you didn’t let four survivors make it that far. It’s weird that killers will play the “survivor skill” card but never reflect on their own shortcomings as gamers.