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Sadako is really opressive especially for solo
She is really opressive for solo play.
I have now faced Sadako as survivor, i want to tell what the expirience was:
First all matches were duos, me and a friend. None of us is top tier mmr, but we are decent enough at the game, we know killers/maps/perks and can loop the killer to an ok level.
Most matches survivors were trying to pick up tapes, none of them i had teammates ignoring tapes and giving Sadako free condemned.
You feel always pressured thanks to the reduction in cooldown of the tvs and lack of info on the survivor.
Basically everyone was scrambling for tapes, she got someone or multiple people, they all get multiple condemned stacks and then Tvs get turned off, suddenly your resources to get rid of condemned became really scarce and hard to find eventually one survivor breaks.
All the buffs combined made her opressive, the reduced tv cooldowns + condemned stacks + the weird rules and cooldowns that survivors have to take in order to survive and not get condemned and get rid of it.
If Sadako get so much pressure from condemned a good nerf to help solo queue is to either give them more info in what Tvs they can remove condemned or make so all Tvs give you a tape, no matter if the Tv is turned off or on.
I was on death hook once and was with like 6.5 stacks or something, the survivor that rescued me came and removed the tape next to me. I was so worried, like i am dead, there is nothing i can do. She can just tp once and i am dead, the only tv close to me was just removed by my rescuer and i am so dead...
It all feels artificial, didn't feel like work for Sadako to create all of that pressure.
Comments
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Reduced TV cooldown also means tapes appears more often.
May be just wait around 15 seconds so that TV turned on?
If sadako used that tv and later you found it, it has to be almost on again.
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So are you calling everyone playing this game including streamers and pros dumb because they can't pick up tapes.
People already sreamed wolf enough saying that she was nerfed and weak. Yet she is giving everyone a hard time while barely having to work for it
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The tvs are turned off for 70 seconds. If you have to wait 70 seconds so i can get a tape, i will probably be dead before that.
And this is getting the tape, you still have to find the tv to put it.
Also, if you take a tape and try to do a gen next to it, well you better have a toolbox or someone else with you. Because the Tv will be on before you can finish it, and no you can't use the tape you got to turn it off even if you waited the 70s timer, you have to deliver it to another Tv.
In the end that is the only counter to her because of the weird limitations and cooldowns. Gen rush, get the gens done before she can create enough condemned pressure, abuse her lack of chase power to get time and move on.
It's not really fun for either side.
I will say atleast the games are quick compared to SM.
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70 seconds if a survivor turn off.
45 on sadako jump.
Unless you all go for the same TV should be no problem.
There are 7 TVs so if Sadako is always jumping on cd there is always going to be 3 TVs on.
Also TVs are always close to gens so not random rng in map.
I would rather wait, pick a tape and be safe than do a gen and maybe later i hope that i can see a TV on. Later is late.
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It's way too random for an insta kill mechanic. Pig's traps reveal their aura all the time and you cna always interact with them as well as a fixed timer, besides she needs to down you first.
Sadako's tvs have what feels like random cooldowns because unless you have coms to know what is happening you have no info on what tvs are on or off, so it feels random.
Not being able to remove those stacks because you didn't knew that one tv was off and should have searched for another one, searching another one to put it while hoping for sadako to not just tunnel you out first chance she gets, because she has all the info she would need to do it while you have close to none.
Like great you picked up a tape, she knows where you, she knows what tvs you are close and if she hits you she can put you that much closer to death while forcing to get a tape back again, because that tape was destroyed, oh that tv might still be on cooldown, so you better search for another tv.
May of this issues are aliviated in SWF, but good luck in solo q.
Countering Sadako isn't as easy as pick up a tape and she is useless.
But whatever, somehow all survivors are really dumb but still win way too much against killers.
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she is a noob stomper for sure. but counterplay is super simple and very strong so it will just take some time before she is unplayable.
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Who made the art for that?
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1: Ah yea totally. You know I think TV's definitely spawn at each individual survivors feet at the start of the trial. Makes sense to me. Hope she doesn't teleport while you are en route to a TV in your face.
2: Grab the tape, she will find you and then zone you out once she does. And slug you as well
3:
4: Congratz you just played into her hand. She fully condemned and killed every survivor without getting a single hook stage.
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The only thing should be nerfed is her Mother's Comb. They should rework this add-on.
Except that, i don't see any issue with her. Sadako is fine.
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Please keep all posts on topic and civil. Thank you for your cooperation! Back to the discussion at hand. <3
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I think also the iridescent tape. You know where the survivor has to go to turn it in and you can just camp it out if they have high condemn and they are out of options.
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I agree rn sadako is way too strong for the average soloQ team (altho everyone except trapless trapper is tbh), but why use pig as an example, she is literally a joke of a killer, this comes from someone who has played and pays pig a lot, id be better if you point how sadako should be changed without taking pig as a reference, since she is barely a threat to any sentient player.
However I cannot play dbd atm but with what I have seen I do believe sadako needs some changes as she requires a lot of coordination to counter, I just really hope they dont do a billy/slinger change and destroy the killer altho that would make her be clasified as fun like most of the killers that have been gutted before.
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I just compared it to Pig because it's the only killer with an insta death mechanic base kit.
While Pig is weak, that is a problem of her chase and stealth power, not her traps which i would argue are really strong, but because she needs to down people to aply that pressure she can just not be able to do it fast enough to matter.
In the end i was just comparing mechanics and not mencioning Pig as the perfect state Dbd balance, because she is not.
But in my opinion while this insta death mechanics can bring some tension to matches they shouldn't be this reliable or common, especially if they require info that survivors don't get in order to counter it.
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you can just hide as survivor if she camps a television and let your team progress gens since she is chasing no one. she also not applying any condemn pressure either.
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The guy who made this comic has since admitted he was wrong lol
Like don't get me wrong, he's describing the correct counterplay. Where he's wrong is that if you do this, she suddenly becomes trash tier. All you've done by doing this is ensure you don't get rolled, and your whole team has to do it.
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I kinda agree. I think it's just a matter of time before the community understands the right counter and makes her way less threatening than she seems now. Any preemptive nerf could potentially kill the character in the long run and I really hope they give it a few more weeks before changing anything about her.
It's just that she went from "the killer with an interactive power you should just completely ignore" (I don't fully agree with that but it definitely was the most popular opinion) to "interact with her power often or you throw the game", which is no different than Pig or Pinhead or Singularity. The majority of a game community is probably not so invested to the point of browsing forums and reading update posts, so many suddenly just found themselves dying to the one killer's power they learnt to totally ignore.
Sadako feels kinda Plague-ish in the sense that the way to counter her is to choose between the lesser evil (holding onto tapes from the start and putting them away in specific situations/never cleansing the vomit unless in specific situations VS not using tapes and getting condemned easily/cleansing often and giving Plague a better power). And just like with Plague new players will inevitably screw up until they read up on her power.
It is very possible to counter Sadako and it'll seem much easier and less of a hassle in a couple of weeks. It's just that, right now, it's like a kinda complicated Plague-like new killer released, but it has the slot and skin of a preexisting character that the survivors mostly just ignored for a year. And the PTB for this "new" killer was so different it's like it wasn't there.
The beginning is bound to feel really really rough but I have the feeling things are going to feel more balanced and less worrying in a matter of 1-2 weeks. Fingers crossed any eventual change to her won't gut her
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Please tell us why you ignored all our PTB- feedback and all the hard work that came with it.
We are curious to know.
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Shes not.
She was more fine before than shes now.
Played her on a daily basis.
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I also don't want any knee-jerk nerfs, however I do think that it's not quite so simple as people who are saying to just take the tapes are implying.
Yes, as of right now, taking the tapes is seemingly like the correct counterplay, because it keeps her from passively condemning you. But it doesn't totally shut her down.
Once she's found you and hit you, now you're in trouble. You have to find another tape and fast. You can only get them from TVs which are currently on, meaning you have to run around until you find one.
So then you find one, but if the Sadako is paying attention or using the Mother's Comb, she'll know you just grabbed another tape and where you are. And now she's going to try to stop you from putting that tape away.
It doesn't take many mistakes to quickly snowball your condemned and allow her to mori you. Even if she focuses on doing this to just 1 survivor at a time, if she knocks one out by 2-3 gens left, it's going to be a hard time for the others to come back.
It's true that she doesn't have a chase power, but you have so fewer allowances for mistakes against her than other killers because she straight up ignores hook states, and while her stealth isn't amazing, she is still hard to keep track of, which makes her very good at hit-and-run.
As Otz pointed out in the video he made today on her, the counterplay for survivors is actually quite complicated compared to the level of effort the Sadako has to put in to do all of this. I'm saying this as someone who has Sadako at prestige 24.
By far the most problematic thing though is how a lot of Sadakos simply don't care about hook stages and just slugs people. If she never hooks anyone, survivors get very little in the way of blood points and progress towards medals for pips, which makes her particularly aggravating to play against even compared to other strong killers. They really need to do something to keep her from just constantly slugging everyone.
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Oh I absolutely agree that tweaks of some kind will definitely be needed, my comment was more on how it's better to wait some time to let the community really get used to the new mechanics and counterplay strategies, so it'll be easier to understand what to change without risking over-nerfs to her.
To bring up the point about hook states, in a way I find it kinda interesting that there's a killer that plays so differently it feels like a different gamemode (I wouldn't say slugging is really a specific gameplay trait of new Sadako rather than the players, since it's overall much better to just keep people injured without ever going for the second hit until it's time to Condemn. I personally still don't slug at all even with this new kit and it goes smoothly), it feels like a breath of fresh air, very scary (in the fun way) to face, and somehow feels even more like facing the Sadako from the movie. But I understand and absolutely agree that the Bloodpoints are a problem. I'm guessing giving survivors Bloodpoints for Sadako-specific interactions (like a big bunch of Bloodpoints every time she teleports) would be a good way to keep this unique and fresh "gamemode" up without penalizing the survivors for it.
If they were to go the other way to try and incentivize hooks, then they should definitely buff her chase department. It's not hard to get first hits in with Sadako, but after the change to Demanifested Bloodlust and Reiko's Watch chases feel terrible, and Bamboozle/Crowd Control feels like a necessity on her. I do hope they go for the former solution because such a different playstyle is really refreshing (again, obviously it needs tweaks for balance's sake, but I've grown to like it a lot), but if they were to go the hook way, they should definitely do something to help her with that because that playstyle would be kinda unsustainable with her current kit
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Im feeling like a broken record....
We told them what she needed to be better. We told them this rework wasnt it. Nerfing her in numbers doesnt fix the problem. The4y has to see that map wide condemn is bad for her. I myself (mained her since launch) wrote 3 posts about how to rework / buff her. I told them about the changes on the PTB and where they would lead. I told them about the things she would need. I and a lot of others even came up with fun addons to take into consideration.
They ignored our constructive feedback. Now we have the disaster.
I would love them to revert the changes. Its bad for her and bad for the game as a hole. Keep ring drawing as it isa and revert the rest. Shes better that way.
Otherwise. I have all my posts in my archive. I can post it again if anybody wants to read. There where a ton of great ideas from all sorts of players.
I think that this time, we should NOT only look at popular content creators but at the players actually playing her consistently.
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I just wouldn't bet on either another rework or bhvr to swallow their pride and revert the changes, especially when there are players that like those changes.
So i just think that the most probable thing that will happen is a nerf to her because of how oppressive and controversial she is against solos
I honestly don't expect good things for her in the coming weeks.
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Same about that last sentence, I fear she might get changed in a way that makes her really really weak, as she currently doesn't have the versatility in her kit needed to play in ways other than the new teleporting one. So if she gets weaker in that without anything else in exchange it might be really really bad in the long run
The changes from PTB to this version were overall great though so I'm hopeful
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I would love be see you be wrong but i sadly have to say that this seems to be the chase.
It wouldnt even be a rework. They just have to see that they made a mistake and revert it. Simple as that.
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She was so much better before.
I feel like this is Freddy all over again.
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