[Guide] How to counter the new Onyro
Hello all, i see a lot of confusion going around with how the new sadako is being received. either shes really strong, really weak, balanced, etc. and i just wanted to help everybody understand how to counter the new sadako as she works entirely different now then how she did before. This guide should also help players perspectives on her current state of balance too! Without further ado, lets get into it.
Cursed Tapes
The most common issue players are having right now is her cursed tapes. everybody is complaining of the fact that they are getting condemned WAY faster than before, in which i have to say, thats why the rework happened. the rework was supposed to make condemned become faster to apply so survivors would have to interact with her power more often. the best way to counter her cursed tapes is to simply, at the start of a trial, just grab a tape from a turned on tv. i know what you may be thinking, "oreoslurpee, why would i take a tape if its cursed and apart of what makes her stronger?" well i will tell you my friend, it quite actually works as a protection for survivors.
the change the developers have made is where Projection (the power where she travels through a TV) grants 3/4ths (0.75 stacks) of condemned to every survivor on the map. meaning Condemn from a TV covers 188 square tiles of a map aka globally. theres also a change implemented Post-PTB where if your holding a tape and sadako hits you, it breaks the tape instantly and you receive 2 whole stacks of condemn. however, it comes with a HUGE downside. if you hold a tape, you will quite literally NEVER receive condemn stacks unless you put the tape back in a TV or if you get hit, and you no longer passively gain condemn. you should almost always retrieve a tape from a TV at the start of a trial since sadako cannot use her power for about 30 seconds at the beginning of a trial, and since you have a tape, you are protected from receiving condemned.
Also a quick note to add for players who might not know this, you CANNOT retrieve a cursed tape from a turned off TV.
Manifestation
A Manifested sadako is just a normal M1 killer as any other M1 killer could be, she doesn't have any special anti-loop mechanics, and actually the recent nerf to Reiko's Watch has nerfed her chase potential by a long mile! There's not much to counter Manifest as all you have to do is loop her, but De-Manifest is something thats very much counterable.
De-Manifestation
A De-Manifested Sadako is VERY easy to counter, as she cannot hit you. However, be cautious of her at least a tiny bit as she CAN phase through you and trick you! But while shes De-Manifested, shes awfully weak. Not many players know this, but she has something called a Lullaby, there are a few Killers who have this who consist of The Huntress, The Nightmare, and The Trickster. A Lullaby, simply put, is the quiet melody you hear when the killer is near, but not yet in their terror radius yet. in De-Manifestation, Sadako doesn't have a terror radius but instead has a Lullaby, which for players like me that use the heartbeat visual in the Accessibility options, it puts a red cloud with a black center of your character indicating the killer is near. This completely nullifies Sadako as a Stealth killer as other Stealth killers don't have a Lullaby. The Stealth killers are consisting of The Ghostface, The Shape, The Onyro, The Shape, The Wraith and The Pig. Everybody in that list besides The Onyro don't have lullabies because a Lullaby on a Stealth killer makes no sense right? as it would alert the survivors of where the killer is? yeah i dont know why sadako has one since shes supposed to be a Stealth killer, but use it to your advantage so you can gain knowledge on if shes near you!
Also take into notice now that she both loses bloodlust and she cant be stunned by a pallet in De-Manifest!!!! If she loses bloodlust, she loses all that chase potential she could've had against you so use it to your advantage to go to another loop since whenever she is in the process of Manifesting or De-Manifesting, she gets slowed to a speed of 3.68m/s down from her normal 4.6. its also funny how her phasing makes her slower than the nurse, but thats a topic for a different day. Since she can't be stunned while De-Manifested, and she moves slower while phasing, you should almost always drop a pallet on her so you can become separated from the sadako meaning you can gain distance while shes breaking the pallet (potentially). Use loops to your advantage against her as the sadako player would most likely be trying to use mind games with her power.
Projection
The recent changes to Projection actually make her map pressure quite better since she can apply condemn to survivors globally, if they aren't holding tapes. her TV's turned off by Projection turn back on after 45 seconds have passed, and if you put a tape in a TV it turns off that TV for a duration of 70 seconds instead. Projection now also puts her TV Travel on a 10 second cooldown, so make sure to count down in your head every time she teleports! Also, a good note to pass by is that a turned on TV usually has a screen of static. That changes to the glitchy faces survivors see because the TVs change to that whenever a survivor is near the TV, giving the Sadako player free information on if a survivor is near her.
Besides that, there's not much to say about Projection really, but make sure to keep ahold of a cursed tape so you don't receive global condemn!!
That is how you counter the new Onyro for players who are still having trouble going against her, I really hope this helps people understand going against her better!
also make sure to check out the new guide One Pump Willie released
Comments
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Why is the Wraith not a stealth killer?
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he is, did i not include that in my post? i may have misplaced him somewhere.
Edit: i added him in
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I keep wondering how many TVs are around the map.
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i think its completely RNG, as her official killer page doesn't state how many TVs are in a trial. (by official killer page, i mean dbdfandom)
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I think what makes her tough for solo queue to deal with is that you’ve gotta grab a tape from an active TV, her teleport can turn a TV off, and if you have a tape she’ll hit you for two condemned stacks and destroy the tape. Your condemn doesn’t go away until you retrieve another tape and then place it in a TV. So you’ve gotta juggle gens but also several tapes and also be able to loop / avoid being hit. It’s a lot to expect of solo queue.
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Im pretty sure is 1 TV in 16 meters around each gen.
So 7 TV easy to track.
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here's an add-on to ur guide enjoy =)
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Cool guide but they’re gonna have to nerf her tbh.
any sadako playing hit and run style is an instant win atm
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I mean, that's what she's geared towards, just like Wraith.
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wraith doesn’t mori basekit bro lmao
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in order to not get moried please look at step 1 of my handy guide
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The sad part is when they do nerf her she won't get anything in return for chase. Right now she is a one-trick pony doing hit and run and teleporting to build condemn. When you nerf that what does she have left? Nothing...she has no chase power and one addon that gave her some mindgame potential was heavy nerfed. I agree I competely see them nerfing her condemn in a few weeks since I'm pretty sure the devs didnt want her to get 2 or more condemn kills every match. Saddens me bc I also know they won't buff anything else about her kit. :-/
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yesterday Otzdarva livestreamed with 3 other survivors with over 5k hours each, ALL getting moried. If it were that simple it would be fine but it isn’t. Just take a look ate the forum posts. Peace
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I'm grabbing the tape at atleast 2 stacks and avoid the closest TV revealed to me for obvious reasons.
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Too long, didn't read.
I'll just hide and wait for my teammates to get deleted from the game, and then get hatch.
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There's always a TV within 16 metres-ish around a generator, so there's one for pretty much every generator
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Doesn't mean that TV is active for us to interact with, I rounded an entire map at one point before finding a TV that was active in order for me to snatch a tape. Blockbuster making it hard to rent but easy to return 🤣
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Same lol I ended up just wasting time running in circles around one until it switched on and I immediately jumped on it. Was almost fully Condemned so had no choice.
Another difficultly solo survivors will face is not only finding a TV that's on, but also having team mates who understand that you might need the TV more than they do. If I have team mates ridding themselves of Condemned as quick as they can and yet mine is building as I can't find a TV while trying to do gens as well, then I'm screwed. Good teamwork is hard to find in this game.
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The solution is SWF. That’s what BHVR wants.
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Keep in mind while yea they pulled very experienced survivors to show how good it is, they also pulled a very experienced Sadako. Just like people enjoy saying killers don’t go against survivors like that often, you won’t go against killers that good that often either.
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It was a public match tho.
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okay then what the hell is the point of replying? too long didn’t read, i couldn’t care less my guy. if it’s too long, then leave this thread. i made this so people can understand how to counter her better, not for disrespect.
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okay thank you that’s good to know!! 💜💜
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Is this beatable? Of course. Is matchmaking in this game good enough to support tuning a killer to require this level of macro strategy? Hell no.
The reality of 70% of solo queue matches is 2 or 3 players will have a good idea of what to do and play optimally, and the other two teammates will be on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. For every two survivors that make an effort to counter Sadako and hold tapes, the other two survivors won't have even read the patch notes.
Something has to give. You either don't design killers that require 4 survivors to be on point from a macro perspective, or you improve matchmaking so players with 4500 hours aren't being matched with 600 hour teammates, and or similar experience disparities.
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No it isn't.
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Skill issue
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says the one saying she needs a nerf lol
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I sadly agree and can see the nerf coming. And I'm the biggest advocate of buffing weak 1 killers. I don't think condemned moris should be happening almost as much as getting hook deaths.
I've had a couple games as survivor now where I was very actively trying to prevent myself from being condemned while also trying to be efficient on the gens as much as possible and I was condemned killed still.
Maybe they need to make the 75% of a stack 50% of a stack of condemned or they need to make the cooldown longer on the teleport. Feels like they are just spamming the teleport and it's causing so much condemned that its slowing the game down massively. More then pinheads box or pigs traps even.
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The way I see it, she has to be played like it’s an Oni and you want to deny his power.
Instantly grab a tape at the start of the trial. Throw pallets early and slam gens as fast as possible. Extremely boring way to play but I guess so is Condemnryo.
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I think right now Sadako is strong, but fairly balanced due to the counterplay surrounding the condemned playstyle.
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Not asking. Foreseeing a nerf. Those are different if u can use interpretation right
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I died because there wasnt a TV for me. What should I do?
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Yeah, I feel the devs are really struggling to find a perfect balance there. I for one think giving her more chase potential would be best, instead of focusing so much in the condemn mechanics tbh
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Didn't they try that with the last Skull Merchant update and it changed nothing? They gave her better chase potential to get people to stop zoning down a 3 gen to no avail. People prefer the path of least resistance. Maybe for Sadako they could start by throwing some more TVs in and cutting down the condemn build up to compensate? I dunno.
I've been thinking recently that the folks who say the devs don't play their own game might be right. Sadako absolutely needed an update that forced survivors to interact with her tapes, because they could easily be ignored most of the game. But it feels like it's gone too far in the other direction now, where people are needing to prioritise finding a tape/TV that's actually on over a gen. It should be a side quest, not the main quest lol I'm still trying to reserve judgement yet anyway, as I think new changes should always be given a few weeks to adjust to. But if people who have never, or rarely, played her before are already getting easy multiple Condemned deaths just days in then I think you're right that a nerf is inevitable. I'll bet BHVR are making great sales on her chapter in the meantime though.
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oh then i must have misread it, my bad! i have a difficulty reading sometimes
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there are TVs for you, if she turns them all off then they all get turned back on. its kinda like how The Plague's corrupt intervention works. to prevent survivors from staying sick indefinitely, they made it so if all fountains become corrupt, then she automatically claims one of the fountains. this works the same with Onyro's TVs
there IS a TV for you, you just have to go around and find it, since yk, you can put them in any TV now
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in reality this is never what she needed. what she needed to become a better killer was to
remove her lullaby, change the TV durations to how they are now, have the current ring drawing (the nerfed one), buff her basekit invisibility for de-manifesting and manifesting, and possibly increasing the speed she has when shes phasing as she moves slower than the nurse.
this is all it takes for her to be good originally, but nooo, they just decided to throw this rework in and now everybodys confused on if shes strong or not.
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True true. I 100% forgot abt SM. The problem with sadako imo is she has unreliable TV spawns. Her power is either forgettable or overwhelming. She has little chase potential.
If u think abt it she is a watered down dredge. Which is sad, cause he’s not the strongest killer but hes very well rounded.
Maybe instead of straight up mori condemned survs, the condemn would make them exposed and after 2 hooks she could actually mori them? Kinda like how PH’s power works
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If people complaining about MFT since day one were told to give it time and see how much it actually impacts the meta, the same should go for onryo lol. If more people picked up onryo, then perhaps fewer people would complain about weskers.
I haven’t tried out the new Sadako yet but I probably will have to adapt to her new playstyle since my previous setup (Non Condemned build) has been obliterated.
With that being said, I would argue that if her basekit condemned was to be toned down, her addons could be changed to give debuffs on holding tapes, that would resolve the issue of people holding on to her tapes indefinitely
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Then I have to thank Steve and Rebecca used 2 TV nearby me with 1 and 4 stacks. And I had to run across the map with 6 stacks then died trying to get the tape.
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honestly i believe there should be more TVs, or at the very least just make it so survivors can re-turn TVs back on to input the tape. it would definitely help not make condemn so strong
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I believe Survivors can only take tapes from active televisions but can deposit them regardless of the tv being active or deactivated? This was already a feature for old Sadako, otherwise it would be impossible for a Survivor to deposit their tape if Sadako had turned it off via projection previously.
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Thats called Teamwork! Survivors that kill their teammates are still my favorite killers.
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huh, then i wonder why people cant put it in a lot of TVs. might be a bug!
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It could be that. Alternatively, since inserting the tape into the tv turns it “on” but disables projection to it for 70 seconds, it could also be a case whereby new tapes cannot be inserted during this time frame. If the 70 second time period is reset every time a new tape is inserted, the Survivors could keep a specific television disabled for a really long time by dropping their tapes only at that certain tv.
I believe people will figure out more details in the coming weeks to optimize getting rid of Condemned. Alternatively if you know a Survivor dropped a tape off at TV A, you could try doing so before the 70 second timer to check if this theory is true.
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Thank you very much for this guide, I think it really sums up the concept and the changes while being extremely easy to read and understand.
Thank you for your time and help! <3
-Cecio
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of course! i love helping people, and especially if its to have more knowledge on countering one of my mains. i know her best, and the changes implemented are quite easy to counter. its just a HUGE change that happened and people need to learn about it, rather say shes too strong and nerf her.
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take a cassette because the worst senario that can happen is that you get 2 stacks condemt (but you're always protected), and once you have a couple of stacks of condemt take a cassette and run to the other tv, dont forget she is still a m1 killer, it gets difficult if it's on an indoor map and a 3 gen holds then .. .gl xD
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Point is, counterplay should be somewhat intuitive. If people have to read a whole novel just to understand ######### is happening in the match then the design is clearly very flawed.
It doesn't help that there is an addon that changes her tape interactions back to the old way. The majority of players will not see your post (helpful as it may be). Most will wander around trying to play the game and then wonder why they are already dead.
This is not a criticism of your guide, but rather the piss-poor rework in general.
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