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Your Thoughts on STBFL?
Comments
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preach
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I would be fine with special attacks also removing tokens, IF, collision between the Obsession and the Killer was also removed at the same time.
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So a killer who is camping instead of chasing anyone managed to build up STBFL stacks? How?
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A bit overtuned, either decrease the cooldown percentage in general or make it 6-7 stacks max instead of 8.
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STBFL is fine. It doesn't need any changes.
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If a perk needs to become basekit on specific killers that's a clearcut sign those killers need buffs.
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The other thing is that many killers have powers that can camp just as well as STBFL, but require no build up.
Huntress hatchets have a lower CD than the M1 CD.
Several killers have instant down abilities.
Trickster has no real CD when he's throwing knives and has more than enough to down the unhooker and interupt the unhook.
Plus the devs have already announced an anti-facecamping which should address the issue with STBFL camping as well.
Anecdotally, people keep claiming STBFL is so broken, yet I hardly see killers I face use it. Just feels like a lot of people want it nerfed, because they are upset killers got some basekit buffs a year ago.
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we know... but bhvr doesn't wanna buff trapper 😔
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Disable it in the end game. The entire argument for DS and OTR not working in the end game is that it has no counterplay in certain situations. What is a solo team supposed to do against a killer who is facecamping with max stacks of save? It's a no win scenario. The only real choice you have is to leave and let the person on the hook die.
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STBFL also requires you to build up stacks, and requires you to ignore a specific survivor (or use an m2 on them if you have one). By the time you got your 8 stacks, you have downed 4 survivors and likely completed around 1/4 of your objective.
MFT requires you to be injured, which basically just means (get chased by the killer) and you get it for free.
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They’re both too strong and I’d be happy if both were nerfed. I think MFT just gets way more attention because it’s a newer perk and it’s also used a lot more. STBFL isn’t good on every killer so people don’t bring it if they’re playing a killer that it isn’t good on. Survivors run MFT regardless of who the killer is since they don’t know who they’re facing ahead of time and it’s good against most killers. But this is far from the first thread about STBFL being overpowered.
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Drain the stacks using the obsession. If the killer refuses to leave the hook to down the obsession, you can heal them and get them to drain MORE stacks.
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Killers should not be hitting faster than the unhook animation. Which is 2.0 seconds. Compared to old versions or not, it’s cheese in the game.
My prescription would be to lower the effectiveness of STBFL or increase the unhook timer.
And the cheeseheads in this thread whomst think killers have a right to camp hooks, and tell survivors to just not save: That is killer entitlement in its purest and I believe the developers have made it clear they are doing away with that level of camping. Clutch your pearls.
This game needs to encourage the chase interactions and not strategies that supersede it.
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You say we should focus on chase interactions on a thread focusing on nerfing a chase perk... because it can be equipped on someone who camps. Also, I'm not seeing a bunch of posts saying "killers have the right to camp" on this thread.
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It takes 1 second to unhook.
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3.0 recovery * .95 = 2.85 seconds. This means old save would remove .15s per stack
2.7 recovery * .95 = 2.565 seconds. That makes it a .135s per stack
full stacks old- 3.0 x.6=1.8
full stacks current- 2.7x.6=1.62
Difference between the two are .18s
New save is basically 9 stacks of old STBFL when at full stacks. You start at 2 stacks and need 8 additional stacks to gain 7.
The change I think should only happen is to bridge the gap between SWF and Soloq where at 4 stacks the survivors are now notified the killer is running the perk since at that point it is easy to tell if the killer is running that perk and communicated that information across the team.
Demo already scales better by not running the perk, and actually the only really a good choice for the perk is on the m1 killers which are basically all at the bottom in terms of power.
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no way. 1 gen is 90 seconds. hook are 2 minutes. you can do max of 3 gens. the walking time for survivor in dbd is significant when accounting hook camping.
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That's 1 post... It's also not even a situation where STBFL comes into play. In order to have STBFL work, you have to build stacks. If your camping the first person, you'd have at most 2 stacks.
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So during that chase, that the killer did to get the survivor on the hook to camp them, your entire team didn't do anything?
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I just wanna point out hook trading is an option. STBFL is a non-factor against killers who arnt going through chases and thus arnt building stacks. Since hook grabs are removed, it's pretty easy to do a hook trade and have the survivor on hook get away with the built in endurance. That being said, you should still utilize as much time on each hook as you can to crank out gens. Do it right and the killer won't even get a 1k.
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I do think this perk makes Demo players bad at shredding but it's more of a psychological issue rather than a balance one.
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Why though? Top tiers killer don’t use STBFL only low and mid tier killers. Why do they need to be nerfed?
The only killers that would actually be affected by this nerf are Demo and Pig, and to a lesser extent, Slinger and Trapper. Those killers REALLY don’t need nerfs right now.
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STBFL is a problematic perk, but in a meta where Survivors have a bazillion health states and move faster for free half the time it's a necessary problematic perk for the lower end of the roster.
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it's totally fine, necessary for m1 killer to even compete in higher ranks, otherwise you cant even kill anyone because they constantly bodyblock each other. Also good tool to punish survivors who are too brave and for save when there's killer near hook.
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It's a perk that people will defend even thought it has blatant issues. M2 stack loss denying is stupid, get over it. Sorry to bad demo players that they'd have to use their power if they couldn't use STBFL. STBFL at the hook is also dumb, basically guarantees a kill. STBFL vs solos is also also dumb, no way for them to find out about it. People always going "just look at the killer when they hit a teammate" as if solos don't deserve the easy info said over comms for some reason.
"Nerf demogorgon" more like nerf braindead players who crutch on stbfl instead of learning how to use their power lol
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It is a perfectly balanced Perk. The only time when it's problematic is, when it's used for camping.
Now to the killers it's "strong" on.
Killers that you say, can save their stacks.
Pig, Demogorgon, Nemesis, Wesker, pyramid head, Artist, Trapper, Bubba, Blight, Billy, Knight, Huntress, Trickster, Deathslinger (one stack by breaking chain), Oni, Plague and Twins.
Out of these killers, the Perk is bad or useless on : Pyramid head, bubba, Billy, Huntress, Trickster, Oni, Plague and Twins.
This leaves us with Nemesis, Wesker, Artist and Blight. On these killers the perks works ok, however, there are better perks to play optimal. Depends on Playstyle but is now THE BEST.
Then there is Knight. Don't get me wrong. It's a solid Perk on him. However, saving stacks is possible in theory but impossible in practice.
Last but not least, there are Pig, Demogorgon and Trapper.
Trapper is Trapper. You have to walk into a trap for him to save stacks. Best for nasty basement builds. But that is sadly what this killer has become these days.
Pig is not the strongest either. This perk makes her have chase potential. Also to make her save stacks, she has to hit you with the ambush... If you get hit. That's your fault.
Leaves us with Demogorgon. Also not the strongest killer. Stbfl is great on him but there are better perks and builds (Devour gorgon).
All other killers can't save their stacks, meaning, survivors can stop the Perk with good teamwork and altruistic actions from the obsession. Good survivors know what I'm talking about.
Conclusion. Save the best for last is a Perk that helps out killers that have little going for them in chase and punishes survivors for making mistakes really hard.
Saving stacks is only good on killers that are not that strong to begin with.
It also serves as a band aid for map design in terms, that killers using it are mostly m1 based and have therefore problems catching up. This perk is anti-shift w. Good in my book.
Only negative is camping but with the recent change, unhooking is always possible even with 8 stacks.
In the end. This is one of the best designed perks in the game, helping out weaker killers and not helping the strong ones. Other than camping, there is no problem with this Perk. It is used that much because it fixes a game problem.
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soooooooooooooooo..... About using Pigs ambush....
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And what difference does that make? You hit faster than the unhook animation so what? Affraid you're not going to get an unhook against STBFL?
Well, then today is your lucky day. You still get the unhook because for some reason getting hit and downed doesn't stop it, BHVR made sure of that. So you get an exchange either way. And for an exchange the killer doesn't need STBFL but a M1 key. Literally every killer in the game can force an exchange without STBFL. So, no, it does not make you better at camping.
Read your last sentence again. The more you nerf killers in chase (by nerfing chase perks) the less chases killers will go for.
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Then we agree that killers should have slowed attack animations around the hook. STBFL disables around active hooks. Solves the cheese.
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MFT is fine, STBFL is OP.
Is this backwards day or something?
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I just told you, STBFL does nothing when you camp. Having it deactivate around hooks would only result in people abusing that and has no further benefits. There is no cheese.
The more you limit killers in chase, the less they will engage in these chases. And a nerf to STBFL is always a nerf to the chase potential of weaker killers. Basically you achieve the opposite by nerfing the perk. Instead of reducing camping you would increase it. Because camping works even when you cannot go for chases. You don't make it stronger but more prevalent.
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The only thing I would change about it is make it so it doesn't take effect within X metres of a hooked survivor, I feel as though this restriction should also linger in the same area for a second or two after the survivor is unhooked.
Don't see why the people who are claiming it's a chase perk are seemingly against any sort of change to make it so the killer can't just camp for free.
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I guess it really depends on how generous your making that X. 4 meters isn't gonna affect anyone who's chase leafs to the general area of a hook while 16 most definitely will.
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