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Give survivors the location of turned on tvs
Like instead of giving that info when you are condemmed just give it when you have any stack of condemmed.
Only that change would remove some of the frustration of running around like chickens searching for an available tv.
Either that or just let survivors pick up and put tapes on turned off tvs.
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no you see... you can't put tapes on vcrs that have no power.
on a more serious note, it's really not hard to find a tv. on most maps
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If its an insta death mechanic and it wouldn't be that big of a deal i want it the same.
I am not trusting anyone to not run around for 60 seconds looking for a tv that is turned on
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It's tough, because I think the old TVs were too easy to manage, but the new TVs are too hard. Maybe it should be that, when you get within a certain distance of a TV, you can see the aura, and the distance increases the more condemned you have.
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I'm with this. There need to be more dynamic effects akin to how Noed works rn. Rather than just keeping an effect black and white on or off, have it change in tandem with the scenario.
4 stacks of condemned? Give em 40 Meters of TV reading.
1 stack? 10 meters.
Condemned? Map wide, maybe a boost to tape interaction speed, idk, just getting tired of being hard targeted for full matches because I got condemn spammed after she hit me with a tape.
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I feel like that's fair, although maybe not let it work mid chase so it doesn't give away Sadako's next teleport if she's trying to utilize it mid chase. Start the aura reading like 5 seconds after chase drops.
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The problem ppl are having is finding one turned on. If Sadako is spamming her teleport every 10 seconds, she's constantly keeping the majority of the TVs on the map off. This leaves 2 or 3 TVs for you and your teammates to find and compete over.
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the condemn is already really easy to remove once you get a tape at base-kit. TV's spawn next to generators. after initial 70 seconds passes, at most 3 tv's will be turned off by projection with 4th TV has 15 second or less time to turn on. If you have trouble finding generators, felix has a perk called visionary that shows aura of gens and Deja vu also shows aura of gens... though you should already know where those spawn from playing vs other killers. Removing condemn and getting tape requires game-sense and understanding of generators spawn locations.
the tape is preventative measure towards condemn. the analogy is bucket of water. you do not want bucket of water to overflow. you can only remove condemn if everyone has a tape and your team does not need to grab tapes. if you grab a tape and turn off a another tv, then grab another tape. the turning off on 3 TV'S means that your teammate will not be able to grab tapes. that is by design so you cannot remove condemn faster as a team compare how fast sadako can apply the curse. In some sense, you can reduce condemn but only few times per match. Sometimes you won't be able to reduce it at all if your team is consistently getting hit.
in practice, you want to prevent the bucket from overflowing. as the match drag's on, everyone will eventually be afflicted by the curse. this is to prevent you from countering the curse completely like PTB Singularity EMP's.
I think Sadako went from under-rated killer to over-rated killer. Sadako's chase power in chase is laughably bad and her base-kit stealth is not impressive whatsoever. If you want to make easier to remove condemn, her chase & stealth might need upgrades in my opinion. Sadako is still one dimensional similar to her old version. It is just that condemn mechanic is more universally effective on all maps and relies less on what survivors describe as "unfun" tactics like onepumpwilly 3 gen's or slugging.
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They arent hard to find though, they make a really loud noise when nearby, and most of the time they're close to gens.
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Then it won't make that much difference and i am not nerfing poor Sadako that much.
Besides every other power shows you the aura of all interactables and just when you are already dead.
Plague, pinhead, pig all of them show you the items as soon as you can interact with them.
Make her consistent and if people are calling survivors dumb for not picking the tapes, then don't act like they are easy to find. Especially when most of the time you have like 2 or 3 tvs available since everyone is picking tapes and Sadako is tping on cooldown
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Its not easy. And all other killers show you the aura of their items as soon as you can interact with them.
No reason why plague, pinhead or pig work like that and Sadako doesn't.
With tapes easier to find and to get rid of condemmed then we see if she is OP or not.
I am just asking for info to the survivors instead of just nerfing to the ground.
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I am just asking for info to the survivors instead of just nerfing to the ground.
I am saying that base-kit condemn will become too easy to optimize because you can deduce the best path to get a new tape and the best path to remove condemn. that type of change forces sadako to run iri-tape every game and it greatly weakens the condemn build-up. the passive teleportation condemn and removal of condemn is based off not knowing the best initial path to re-grab a tape. you are in essence asking to nerf the mechanic to the ground.
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So what?
Isn't condemned supposed to be a slowdown tool? I thought that was the point of this insta-kill mechanics.
If they are as reliable as condemned is now, people will optimize ways to abuse it and make the expirience horrible for everyone else.
So what does it matter that condemned will be easy to remove, you still get the free slowdown and treat.
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it is like michael myer's tombstone add-on. it is not slowdown. it is slow consistent build-up of a mori that eventually kills you if you do not finish the game quick enough. for him its build-up buff. for her, it is slow nasty gradual debuff that kills you.
So what does it matter that condemned will be easy to remove, you still get the free slowdown and treat.
you lose all gens before condemn kills anyone.
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this discussion isn't this deep folks. just show the aura when you're within a certain range rather than anywhere or nowhere from the map. all we're asking is for a middle ground, not to gut sadako. she is too overwhelming for weaker players.
and don't give me the "oh but if you're worse you should lose!"
it's not that these are bad players, it's just they literally cannot find these tvs and would need to have where they are memorized or roughly memorized to find them, which not every player has the information to do. it's frustrating losing because players are deprived of information and the only way they can learn is from videos or trial and erroring until they finally have it memorized. it's a poorly thought out design, and should be slightly tweaked, especially since when it gets taken advantage of can literally kill the survivor with 0 hooks.
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Yeah, and let us know which ones are active at the same time.
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Couldn't say it better
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Tombstone, really?
The add-on that most people agree needs to be nerfed or completly removed from the game because it makes balancing Myers an absolute nightmare?
I don't agree that condemned should be the main way Sadako should kill survivors, it promotes an horrible gameplay loop and it isn't even hard to pull off like it was before the rework.
Make condemned a slowdown like Pigs traps and she would be more a lot more fair for solos
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I don't agree that condemned should be the main way Sadako should kill survivors, it promotes an horrible gameplay loop and it isn't even hard to pull off like it was before the rework.
it wasn't hard for people that main her and studied her gameplay loop. the mechanic was just not very.... present at basekit? I am not sure how to put it.
The add-on that most people agree needs to be nerfed or completly removed from the game because it makes balancing Myers an absolute nightmare?
subjective. some players like how he is with his canonical mori play-style. I think it is interesting but I am not sure how fair it is in its implementation to play against.
Make condemned a slowdown like Pigs traps and she would be more a lot more fair for solos
pig also consider not very strong because slowdown matters little when your chase capacities are not good. the mori is there for pig but it is not very convincing similar to old base-kit sadako. I think the curse is fair because sadako needs to hit you to remove tapes so she needs to outplay you in the chase as m1 and you have all control as survivor in the loops to succeed.
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I guess everything in this game is kinda subjective.
I don't think we will be able to agree with each other, we have very different ideas of the ideal version of the game.
Thanks for the replies anyway, it was cool seeing the opinions of everyone on this topic, even if we disagree on it.
I guess we will see if bhvr does change anything on sadako. The ptb is 8 of august.
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I think showing it all the time would give survivors too much information because then you’d be able to see a TV turn off and know the Onryo just projected there. Even showing them within a limited range would still do that if you’re close enough and would also weaken her ability to use them in chase as a cut-off tool. They’re also loud enough that you can’t really run past a nearby TV that’s on and not notice it.
What I do think is a problem is the new Mother’s Comb + Iri Tape combo giving her way too much information and making it too difficult and time consuming to put tapes away with how her power works now. I’d start by adjusting that and seeing what happens, maybe also reduce Ring Drawing to 0.5 stacks instead of 1. These addon changes alone I think would make her a lot more manageable for most survivors.
I’ve also noticed a lot of survivors are just not playing against her correctly and waiting too long to take tapes, so the first or second time they get hit while holding one they just die. This should hopefully go down over time.
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Personally I think the condemn/tvs is fine.
That said, if people are set on changes then the seeing of the tv auras within a certain range (not while in chase) would seem reasonable to make it easier to find them.
However, she needs compensation for that. So if we gave the tv auras then they should remove the lullaby from her Demanifested so that she’s actually stealthed and remove the slow down from manifesting/demanifested as that makes zero sense since she’s not gaining speed or basically anything from it.
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