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Is MFT meta or why people still complaining about it?
Title
Answers
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Is it because this perk looks very humiliating to killer mains? xD
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Yes it's meta
21 -
Yes it is meta.
It has strong synergy with other meta perks as well.
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Yes it's stronger than the boon and gives you buckel up at the same time
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Because Killers always think there is a "thing" which results in them losing games. You know, all Killers here on this Forum are absolute Gigachads who never make mistakes during their games. So there needs to be something that makes them lose games.
Currently it is Made for This. If Made for This would get nerfed, there would be another "thing" that results in them losing games. Because, you know, you dont lose games because you miss 60% of your Hatchets as Huntress. Nono. You lose games because your opponent had Made for This and you are only a 4,4m/s-Killer.
Survivors are just not allowed to have good Perks, according to Killers. But on the other hand they complain about the stale Survivor-Meta. Guess what, the Meta is stale if the majority of decent Perks got released in 2016 and 2017.
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"Survivors are not allowed to have good perks" as if survivors don't have a bunch of strong perk options, but people only run the most meta out of all of them. MFT is free value for getting injured that changes how long you need to chase people at every single tile in the game. New fast vaults + MFT = extra 30s chases on any m1 killer it's very boring/uninteractive with little counterplay besides forcing yourself to run the few pretty bad exhaustion perks.
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I mean, if Killers would not think this way we would not have several of them throwing a tantrum whenever a good Perk for Survivors is released. The last good Perk before Made For This was Circle of Healing and while this was too strong on Release, it got nerfed into uselessness over time. Reassurance did not even leave the PTB because suddenly Killer Mains were worried that
they cannot camp anymoreabout Survivors being held hostage by other Survivors...And before this we have Mettle of Man which was released long ago... And before this, basically Dead Hard or DS (I dont know which one was earlier, I think DS was earlier, so DH was released later). Both of them also nerfed quite heavily and not really useful anymore.
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It's very damaging to m1 killers
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I mean... you can dump on your opposing side if you wish...
All of the perks you've listed there were absolutely game breakingly strong, you had a number of Survivors advocating for them to be nerfed or refusing to use them cause they were so boring and easy to use.
- COH - Why ever heal each other when you could just do it yourself, and do it really fast. Even with self healing removed, is still a solid perk to this day.
- Reassurance - Still a really strong perk in an organised team even to this day... some would say one of the best.
- MoM - Really weird hill to die on... this was so obviously broken on release, especially when healing was so piss easy. Now it's a bit of a meme perk, negatively hit harder by the healing nerfs... but not totally unusable.
- Dead Hard - Strong just because it existed, Killers baited out DH even on people who weren't running it. Even now with its harsh activation conditions, it still finds itself in builds and is far from a dead perk.
Seems a little disingenuous to say Killers are whiners when there were not a shortage of Survivors who tended to agree these perks were overturned, and the usual counter was "well Killer have this broken perk, so its fine".
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You can add PTB scavenger, technically dead hard was nerfed twice this way, light burn, medkits, locker grabs, and now even prove thyself to this list too.
I personally don't count the two weeks last April when boil over was buffed and then reverted two weeks later. I consider that a hasty correction by the devs rather than an outcry from the community. But since everyone and their dog counts the same exact thing and two week timing for Thana, then screw it, boil over counts too.
The only reason MfT is all over the boards right now is because killers have established a long history of '######### until they nerf it for you' and it isn't working (yet). And if mft does eventually get nerfed we'll be back to Sprint burst and lithe like clockwork.
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Is it meta? Signs point to yes.
It's generally showing up in a lot of games across skill levels and even if players aren't the best it does give them a bit of an edge that wouldn't otherwise have.
Now is that a bad thing? Not necessarily, but it warrants keeping a close eye on as haste is probably the strongest thing you can give to anyone regardless of which side their on in this game. MFT being so conditions light and having strong synergy can make things tough.
While there is definitely an issue of people thinking their MMR is higher than it really is, that doesn't mean that they aren't seeing players of higher skill in their game making strong use of the perk. MMR is a largely unknown number and matchmaking being the way it is means you could easily see people playing out of they proper MMR ranges.
Is it as meta as other high usage perks? No, but the perk has been in the game for about a month and a half at most.
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Survivors can and do have good perks.
Sadly the standart for good perks has shifted to a dark place...
If a "good" Perk has to be as strong as mft or old dh....
Im afraid for the future of dbd.
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It is meta and unbeatable at top top top mmr where all forum killers reside. Ignore bhvr's stats and listen to people who play this game at top level.
Like a person from here i vsed and they tried to whip me with nemmy while I crouched over obstacle, over and over. Or ask the other dude who poped tier 3 miles away from a survivor and when they hoped in a locker he started a rant about how surv sided game dbd is.
I am in no way a great player but at least I can admit my missplays unlike many here who will rather scapegoat and type essays how the game is surv sided every day. Same people who play in ways I mentioned.
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“Blame everything else but me” thats how it is
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Anecdotally, I see at least one most every game but usually closer to two on average, I'd guess. It slows you down when you're having a good game and really hurts when you're having a bad game.
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Meta for good survivors, not the majority
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MFT just give you extra 25% distance in chasing for free.
So yes,it is meta.
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It's not really an issue on low-mid MMR where most players are, it becomes extremely unfun to face at high MMR where stacking it with resilience makes most tiles, especially shack, an absolute slog, the worst part is that it doesn't affect the best killers that much, Nurse can just drop chase and find someone else at a dead zone, Blight is very fast, Pyramid head can just drop chase and tunnel someone else.
It mainly hurts M1 killers that can't drop chase, it's just as bad as old eruption, solid against a well equipped opponent, but downright unstoppable against one not equipped to deal with it.
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It always busted survivor perks. If this was not the case, they would win 99,99% of matches 😁
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Lets go over the perks you've mentioned....
COH - Allowed survivors to set up an infinite reset camp , butchered Hit n run playstyles since injured survivors would just retreat to COH and heal back up. No counter play besides searching the entire map for a totem and snuffing it, just for the survivor to reboon it 15 seconds later essentially making finding the boon worthless. - Perk was busted.
PTB Reassurance - stopped the hook progress for 30 seconds, with a cooldown of 40s instead of once per hook state. it allowed 2 survivors with the perk to keep someone on the hook forever, or it allowed for multiple pseudo saves incase you missplayed and got hit before unhooking.
Not only did PTB Reassurance have a MASSIVE griefing potential it also allowed survivors to get away with blatant missplays with no punishment. - Again, perk was busted.
Mettle of man - Allowed you to be damage immune on every 4th hit , there was no "protection hit" requirement to gain that effect, just literally getting hit at any point during the match 3 times was all it took to give you an uncounterable damage immunity on the 4th. - Perk was busted.
DS - Allowed you to get away unpunished for bodyblocking off hook , either killer picks you up, eats DS and you make it to the other side of the map. or he leaves you slugged for 60 seconds / allows a revive. But again, the slug "punishment" could be countered by literally just running into a locker and forcing a DS activation - Perk was busted.
DH - Perk was so common to the point of forcing all killer players to assume everyone had it and play around it. it forced every single killer to sniff a survivors hair for 10 seconds in an attempt to bait out DH even if they didn't have DH. and its not over yet....
Old DH allowed you to Dead hard for distance , allowing you to make pallets and windows you shouldn't have and extend chase for an extra 20-30 seconds just by pressing E. - This perk even had survivor players AGREE it was busted.
The fact that the only time you consider a survivor perk to be good when its an absolutely busted mess of a perk to the point of being an "I win button" makes be believe you're not someone whos opinion on perk balance should be taken into consideration at all.
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I see people saying it's meta but it's barely in any games that I'm seeing
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Nice talking, but missing the point.
I only talked about WHEN those Perks were released. I never said that the Nerfs were not justified. (Even tho, the last DS-Nerf was not justified and the last CoH-Nerf was not justified as well... IMO letting it only work on one floor would have been enough as a Nerf in its state before the nerf that made it useless).
My point was just that it is very, very rare for Survivors to actually get good Perks. And a Perk is also not good if Killer Mains cry about it in the Forums pre-release and then notice that nobody is using it, because it is bad.
And the thing is - something like Made for This HAS to be strong to make Survivors not use Exhaustion-Perks. Killers complain about Exhaustion-Perks and Made For This is an alternative which has to be strong. Otherwise there would be no point in using it. And IMO, the average Survivor will probably still get more use out of Lithe and Sprint Burst.
(Killers on the other hand usually get at least one decent Perk per Patch and sometimes a Perk which can be good on certain Killers. Maybe End Transmission might be an exception, but I have to say that Forced Hesitation is slept on)
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Not even top 10
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MfT destroys weaker/casual Killers, but does nothing against dedicated/skilled Killers. More people are casual than skilled, thus more complaints. More people hop on to forums to complain, than to praise. Now to be fair, the perk is overloaded, and the Endurance effect should be removed/shifted over to another weak perk.
When I say skilled Killers, I mean understanding your kit, and utilizing its strengths and counter-balancing your weaknesses. This to an extent requires perks, for example Corrupt Intervention/Lethal Pursuer to make up for a weak early game (depending on if you need them slowed down for Corrupt, or yourself sped up for Lethal).
The counterplay to Legion for example is staying injured, and spreading out. You punish this as the Killer by bringing Thana (if worried about gens) and/or Blood Echo (if worried about Exhaustion perks). Then you also force cross-map rescues and chase/intercept rescuers, either making the rescue process take longer, or reach a 2nd state without (proxy) camping. Someone without any of this knowledge will likely hold-W in chase against every Survivor, without paying attention when to drop chase/bloodlust a pallet/which side to kick a pallet on/etc. If you lose your Bloodlust every 5 seconds from kicking weak pallets or re-entering Frenzy, you are choosing to lose the chase against any Survivor with their head on straight.
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You go on a rant about "good perks that got gutted" Name the most problematic perks in DBD'd existance and somehow I missed the point.... makes sense....?
Survivors do get good perks, but the problem is, survivors only classify perks as good if they turn the game into easy mode.
MFT shouldn't be strong to the point of making exhaustion perks not worth using, balanced perks force you to choose which one suits your playstyle the best.
Theres a variety pick between SB, Lithe, DH, and Balanced because they offer benefits on very specific scenarios.
do you often not notice the killer aproaching your gen until its too late? well SB is for you.
Would you rather have a triggerable speed boost on vaults? Lithe is for you.
Do you enjoy making a clutch parry/dodge? you got DH.
Do you find yourself often ontop of buildings or tall structures ? Balanced has you covered.
Then theres MFT, a generalist 3% speed boost perk with no activation requirement besides being hit. Said 3% allows you to be 0.6m ahead of where you would normally be every 5 seconds, (1.2m after 10 seconds , and so on). and cause an undeserved chase extension because you made a pallet or window you wouldn't have made otherwise, Multiple times per chase.
Atleast the other 4 exhaustion perks only work once per chase with varying effectiveness.
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For killer I started running more totem builds. I win a lot. Especially with M1 killers. The moment I use other stuff I lose. Survivors bank on Haste to get to strong loop areas. All you need is Blood Favor, and Crowd Control to shut down loops quicker early game. Then use Penti for gen slowdown mid-late game.
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Except I run mft every game as survivor and can feel the immense difference it makes? Yes people complain about it like that's the reason they lose their games but don't downplay such an immensely strong perk.
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”The last good perk before Made For This was CoH”
Windows of Opportunity was buffed in the same patch CoH was added and is now the most used perk in the entire game.
Reassurance is still a good perk. It’s biggest issue is that it’s tied to a licensed character and should be a universal perk.
Dead Hard is still a good perk and synergies well with MfT.
Off the Record was buffed to be a pretty good perk.
Deja Vu was buffed just recently to become a very good solo queue perk.
And now there’s Buckle Up.
Saying survivors don’t get to have good perks is just wrong and saying that they haven’t gotten anything good since CoH is also wrong.
There’s a difference between good and overpowered.
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Your opinion was already pretty silly, but it's automatically invalidated seeing that you're trying to defend launch MoM. That perk was ridiculously busted.
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Top 5 combo build, yes it meta. one side is very much stale.
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Which I didnt.
If you dont have any real argument, dont make ######### up. I always say that original MoM was a Cashgrab and will never change my opinion on that. Saying that I defend it is just made up nonsense because you want to say something which just istn true.
I was mainly talking about new Perks, aka selling points for new Chapters/new Survivors. But even if you bring up 5 Perks which got buffed over years (!!!), this does not really change the point that Killers get useful Perks far more often than Survivors.
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You cannot name DH and BL in the same category as Sprint Burst and Lithe when it comes to their power levle. Yes, they are all Exhaustion-Perks, but people will almost never use DH or BL over Sprint Burst or Lithe, unless it is personal preference.
This is like saying that a Killer might want to use a Perk which is weaker than PGTW, but does the same over PGTW. Not gonna happen.
IMO MFT is not that strong that it makes Exhaustion Perks not worth using. I mean, this is true for the majority of Exhaustion Perks, mainly because they are so much weaker than the rest. But at this point, certain Exhaustion Perks amke other Exhaustion Perks not using. And Made For This HAS to be strong to be an alternative to Exhaustion-Perks. Otherwise it would just be a Perk which is around and nobody is using it.
I also dont really get why Exhaustion-Perks are now defended and once Made for This is nerfed (we know, Killers will get their will with their mass-complaining), Exhaustion-Perks are again the Number 1-Talk for Nerfs.
But yeah, Survivors dont really get good Perks. They get fun Perks. Or situational Perks. But not good Perks, at least not compared to the amount of Perks Killers get. This time was an exception and Killers riot, because suddenly they lose games because of Made for This (yeaaaah, suuuure...). And I wont change my mind on that one.
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Apologies if I misunderstood, but you mentioned it while talking about very strong perks so surely you can understand why I thought what I thought.
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I don’t think it’s really fair to say survivors get nothing and then exclude everything they do get, especially when your idea of a good perks seems to be overpowered or meta defining.
Yeah sure killer might get more good perks in a chapter, but they get nerfed just as much as survivor perks or they are good but not meta defining. And they get just as many situational and garbage perks that survivors do.
If a perk is only considered good if they are MFT or CoH levels strong, then I don’t think the lack of good perks is the problem, it’s that in order for a perk to be classified as good it has to be borderline overpowered.
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You cannot name DH and BL in the same category as Sprint Burst and Lithe when it comes to their power levle. Yes, they are all Exhaustion-Perks, but people will almost never use DH or BL over Sprint Burst or Lithe, unless it is personal preference.
They are all exhaustion perks .... and yeah thats what makes the current exhaustion line up balanced, that there isn't a "clear choice" best exhaustion and its up to personal preference...
IMO MFT is not that strong that it makes Exhaustion Perks not worth using. I mean, this is true for the majority of Exhaustion Perks, mainly because they are so much weaker than the rest. But at this point, certain Exhaustion Perks amke other Exhaustion Perks not using. And Made For This HAS to be strong to be an alternative to Exhaustion-Perks. Otherwise it would just be a Perk which is around and nobody is using it.
They aren't weak, they are situational or get one activation per chase. Nobody feels cheated out of a hit / down because the other guy popped Balanced from the top ropes. people just go "Oh damn he has BL, that was a smart play from his part, next time I'll try to push him away from Coal tower"
On the other hand we have MFT, just making you faster in general because you got outplayed in the first half of the chase and allowing you to make pallets and windows you otherwise wouldn't have made. Theres no legitimate counterplay to MFT.
"Oh bring X perk to counter MFT" - So what if the killer doesn't have the character the perk belongs to? hes just #########? If you're forced to pay 9.99$ just to be able to remain competitive then it means the game is unbalanced and borderline Pay to win.
But yeah, Survivors dont really get good Perks. They get fun Perks. Or situational Perks. But not good Perks, at least not compared to the amount of Perks Killers get. This time was an exception and Killers riot, because suddenly they lose games because of Made for This (yeaaaah, suuuure...). And I wont change my mind on that one.
You keep trying to argue that because you believe X killer perk is overpowered Y survivor perk needs to be overpowered too. Survivors have PLENTY of GOOD perks, nobody deserves overpowered, meta defining , "I win" Buttons. A truly honest person would accept that busted perks need to be toned down and not make these "us v them" arguments.
And yes, MFT has the potential to cause losses just by the mere fact that over a 5s period you'll be 0.6m ahead of where a non-MFT user would be. this breaks loops, throws off muscle memory and denies the skill people have built over the years.
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I will say (not to support any side just because i thought with them bringing up MFT resilence) resilence i think has always been solid. I don't know when it last got changes. But ive seen it in pretty much every meta since i started (back in early 2017) so its a pretty good perk. Probably one of the most solid survivor perks.
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DS Nerf was justified. Most people crying about the shortened stun are those, who try to run as far as possible with the killer, getting downed somewhere instead of getting downed smart close to a window or a pallet.
COH Nerf more than justified. Just working on one floor? Yay so it is nerfed for 5 Maps ...great idea (sarcasm btw)
The survivors being able to heal themself anytime was just stupid. COH by itself countered the hit and run Playstyle completely. Twins got barely destroyed by this perk, because Twins are at their peak, if all survivors are injured.
Your next point. Survs getting good perks is very rare. So let me look into the perks we got this and last year.
Nicholas Cage:
Dramaturgy High Risk Perk, but a Sprint Burst for 2 Seconds is just like the old Dead hard. You can manage to get to a Window or Pallet if not used brainless.
Plot Twist, first i thought its a meme perk, but i see it often when i am playing surv and killer and i did see some really good uses of it.
Gabriel: Made for This, i guess i don't have to say something about that.
Renato: Background Player, great perk for Flashlightsafes or Palletstuns.
Rebecca:
Reassurance, great Perk if Killer is camping. Extremely strong within a Swf.
Hyperfocus, not broken strong, but still a strong Perk especially with Stake Out
Ada: Wire Tap, Good Perk, especially in combination with repressed alliance.
In my Opinion there are some more good perks, but i just listed those, i do see pretty often.
So 7 Perks within the last 6 chapters
On the other hand there is just one Killerperk within these 6 chapters, i see pretty often used by killers and this is Nowhere to hide from the Knight.
So i don't really get your point if i am looking at this.
And your argument regarding MFT is nonsense, because MFT works so damn well with exhaustion perks, except of sprintburst. You get hit? Just use MFT to get to a vault or a higher place to use your exhaustion Perk or loop the killer, just to use your dh as soon as he catches up. It seems like you dont get how damn strong these 3% can be. There were many moments were i managed to get a window or pallet after losing a mindgame, just because of that. Or on the other hand i didnt manage to get a surv after winning a mindgame, because i couldnt catch up enough with it. And btw Knight isn't a strong Killer, because it is easy to outrun a guard. But with MFT its just impossible for 2 out of 3 guards to catch up to the survs, because they are moving 0,02 m/s slower. Seems like a little number, but this hurts Knight for example a lot.
Post edited by Kedasa on5 -
So you all have to give me a straight answer, Should MFT gets reworked? Yes or no?
Just "vote" here for yes
And "comment" here if no
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You can hold W and gain 20% more distance, thats without looping....
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This argument is bad. You aren't looking at it in context.
1st, MFT didn't exist for half of the time that the data recorded there was collected.
2nd, MFT is tied to a new survivor.
3rd, this data covers ALL players, not just top MMR, as evidence by how high self-care is (come on now)
4th, actually look at all of the survivor perks in the top 10 and how you get them.
- Windows of Opportunity - The biggest outlier, but probably the most "noob friendly" perk in the game
- Adrenaline - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Resilience - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Lithe - A perk on Feng min, by far the most played survivor in the game (should be obvious based how many skins she gets)
- Self-Care - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Sprint Burst - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Prove Thyself - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Dead Hard - A perk on a survivor that you are given access to after completing the tutorial
- Bond - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Spine Chill - A free perk that every survivor has access to
Additionally, windows and Lithe both appeared in the shrine shortly before this date range happened, and once again during the date range the data was collected.
Almost all of these perks are accessible to players who haven't bought anything other than the base game. So if anything, the only interesting thing here is how much of an outlier windows of opportunity is.
In fact, the most useful statistic would be pick rates, broken down by MMR, and adjusted for OWNING those perks. Because i'd guess a ton of these "5 hour megs" don't have MFT to begin with.
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Looping is so easy with made for this
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While I'm sure you have a lot to say to the devs and their statics, it doesn't change that MFT is not a more popular option than SB or even Lithe. It does provide a minor speed boost (while injured keep in mind), but it does not provide as much security, which segregates it even further to and targets its value to people who are confident they are good and can loop (while injured). So what makes it optimal for the majority of players?
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Right, so we agree then that, its probably a bit too strong in the hands of good players, and the "majority of players" aren't using it very optimally or even at all based on these stats?
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That's just average BVHR reaction instead of slightly tuning the perk or reworking it they just kill it. Doesn't mean those perks didn't deserve to be changed they just got changed in a drastic way with little nuance from the statistics dev team.
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