Idea for survivor perk nerfs
First off this is just about survivors perks, I get some killer perks and add-ons are strong too.
Resilience: Vault speed bonus removed:
The perk would still be strong and have multiple uses, I just don’t think improved vault speed for survivors is good for the game.
Made For This: Reduced to 2%, endurance effect removed:
The added bonus of endurance after healing seems excessive and 3% seems too much in loops for m1 killers, particularly since the perk has no time limit and requires no effort to activate.
Buckle Up: Doesn’t activate with For the People:
I don’t know if this combo is intended but seems crazy.
Window of Opportunity: Disabled after vaulting or dropping a pallet for 20 seconds:
Probably the most controversial but I feel there’s a reason this is the most popular perk in the game by far, even more so than Dead Hard at it’s most popular, it’s like wall hacks for loops and I feel gives survivors consistently too much information.
Comments
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Resilience: why the hell remove vaulting instead of gen speed?
MFT: just do Otz suggestion. Remove endurance and haste stacking (that will save trouble in future). Some visual display of the perk would be nice, so killer can act based on it.
Buckle up: yes
WoO doesn't need a nerf. It's just an information perk.
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because res is used for vault speed? you might see a meta shack up like.... in 2 years or 3 years. who knows.
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I can agree that the other perks need some changing aside from WoO. Just because it gives information, and is popular, doesn't mean it's helping you win most chases you get into. Plus there is a killer equivalent, Zanshin Tactics, so would that mean the killer is getting too much information as well?
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I'm so bored of BHVR primarily focusing on nerfs and only occassionally buffing mediocre perks. We need more buffs, less nerfs. There's like 200 perks and at least half feel completely underwhelming.
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Sure and I don't see an issue with it. It's a chase perk.
Gen speed is bigger issue, because survivors just stay injured for adrenaline or won't fully heal (99 with medkits).
What was the point of healing nerf, when you create meta for survivors to stay injured whole game...
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Problem is that they have either very bad or no testers. So it results in buckle up + FTP...
Do you really want to have new broken perks on either side each 3 months?
Games will just become nuclear contest again.
I would love to see more valid perks, but many perks can't be saved with numbers (lots of them can). But it will just become hell for either side sooner or later and won't be fixed for several months...
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No, but it helps to win chases that you shouldn't by:
A) Making survivors that aren't that good at looping get away by dropping pallet, holding W and going to the next pallet, making the killer don't even be able to get Bloodlust, and they can do this to whatever number of pallets the map allows them to have.
B) Making survivors good at looping be able to extend their chases even more by looping one tile and the moment they know they are going to lose or have the chance get out of it to the closest pallet, and again, they can do this until there isn't any close pallets nearby.
Also, in many cases it remove the need for the people that use it to even learn looping and "get good" at the game. Survivors like to argue another nerf to NOED because "It rewards unskillful killers and remove the need for them to be good in the first place". Well, WoO is the survivor's NOED.
In other words: Yeah, WoO needed a nerf before and it definitely need a nerf now with all the speed boost and endurance perks that grants an obvious advantage in chase to survivor over any M1 killer without chasing power.
And this is the solution for MFT, Endurance should be removed and all haste perks shouldn't stack (even if in my opinion there should not be any perk that gives survivors a constant speed boost to begin with, but yeah).
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Or even better yet, Resi and MFT activate for only 60 seconds after being hit.
Enough time for it to be useful in chase, and hit n run playstyles wont be affected.
Perks that alter action or movement speeds need strict requirements or time limits.
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I don't know about the resilience nerf, as it very unique (and only) survivors perk that increases vault speed slighty at the cost of being injured.
MFT definitely needs a reduced movement speed or have limit to how long you can have 3% movement speed. And the removal of Endurance status effect; because passive movement speed increase is too strong for skilled/not skilled players to used and Endurance stacking abusive by swf.
Buckle Up, Yes; it completely removed the downside of For The People when synced together.
WoO definitely needs to bring back the cooldown, between 20/30 seconds after successful vaulting/dropping a pallet, at least. Having passive wall hacks on every available map tile location and getting huge value in looping well, is too strong for experience Survivors; so it needs to be disabled at times. I wouldn't mind Reverting it if Maps get more properly balanced for both sides; and pallets and loops aren't too survivors sided and connected next to each other.
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The WoO nerf isn't going to do anything. A halfway decent survivor can easily take a mental note of where the surrounding pallets are before he drops one. I really don't think resilience needs any changes either. Overall it looks like we've reached a point where people are calling for nerfs to perks that aren't even overpowered.
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Ota suggestion solves about 0 problems with this perk.
In his video, he said that making 20% of the distance for free is "fine", but on the stream he said that he is afraid that bhvr would buff Rapid Brutality, because "would you like to play constantly against 120% of the killer?"
Hell no, of course I'd like to play against 103% of the survivors every day. It's another thing, you know.
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If it is so easy to make a mental map of where the pallets are mid chase, then there is no need for it to be active all the time, right? What is the problem with nerfing it then?
And that it isn't overpowered is arguable for the reasons I already said. I think asking for it to at least have a cooldown after you drop a pallet or vault a window is not too far fetched.
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Honestly I think I would take broken stuff that needs to be dialed back over stale, dry bread at this point.
FTP + BU are pretty busted, but I think a ton of perks could be improved a bunch without things becoming broken.
I think you could buff the crap out of perks like lightweight, plunderer's instinct, deception, detective's lunch, inner focus, guardian ect, to make them more appealing to use. Like, why is there a rage limit on detective's lunch? It can only occur five times per match, why does it need a range limit?
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I really don't like Resilience buffing vault speed, I'm all for removing that.
Also agreed on reducing MFT to 2%. I think I would keep the Endurance effect but limit it to 5 seconds.
Buckle Up + For the People is awful, Buckle Up should have a minimum heal time before it's capable of activating, let's say 3 seconds.
Definitely agreed on putting a cooldown on Windows of Opportunity.
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Windows of Opportunity is popular to counter the RNG of maps. However, I don't think I would mind the deactivating after getting use out of what you see. It would also make it so survivors would have to do a quick scan before vaulting or dropping the pallet so they can memorize where to go next. Sounds slightly more interactive for at least their side of things.
Made for This: Haste stacking needs to be removed. I don't know about reducing it to 2% as I don't know how much that will actually help. The main problem I see with this perk is it doesn't actually help against the top killers in the game it just makes the weaker killers even... well.... weaker. It also ends up being a nightmare for 110 killers like huntress and deathslinger when they are at loops they can't throw over/shoot at or on maps that they can barely use their power, if at all.
Resilience: If they reinstate the new fast vaults, I would say yes as while survivors may not be able to tell the difference during chase, it actually does have quite the impact. However, if I had to choose, I would remove the gen speed repair boost instead.
The other ones I'm not super familiar with their interactions together so IDK lol.
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Sure, lots of perks can be fix with just CD/range reduce. Simple number changes.
I have no idea what they don't start with those and try complete reworks, which are likely to be broken.
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What you're describing will happen with or without WoO.
Also, like... why would you not want to play against it? Good survivors don't really need the information anyway, and that's 1-4 of 16 perk slots that aren't being used for Adrenaline, exhaustion, MFT, Buckle Up + FTP, etc.
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I actually think WoO does need a nerf. It completely removes dead zones and it becomes super obvious when a survivor can always just happen to get to another pallet right before you can hit them. There's a reason it's used more than any other perk in the entire game. A Killer version would be giving a perk that allows you to the intensity of Generators depending on how complete they are, yeah it's just an information perk, but it completely removes the idea of having to patrol gens and you'll always go to the right one. That's OP in my eyes.
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Sure, but I will take this over gen speed/endurance/movement speed perk any day.
It makes soloQ way more bearable, because you know if pallet was dropped or not. We usually just make a call out about it as SWF.
So I wouldn't nerf perks like those. WoO and Bond are just too good for soloQ, which needs any help possible.
When they create some valid soloQ features, we can talk about nerfs.
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No it won't, as even if you know where the pallets should be you can't be sure if there is a pallet there to begin with because of RNG, so you would have the possibility to go to a tile hoping for a pallet that isn't there. With WoO, you always know where they are without doubt.
And you just proving my point, if good survivors don't really need it then it means the perk is only helping survivors without the enough skill and knowledge to win chases that they shouldn't. Again, the same thing survivors say about NOED with the main difference being that NOED have drawbacks by being an hex, showing it's aura to survivors and only working at the end game.
"But it is just an information perk" Alright, would you be fine with killers having a perk that shows the aura of the survivors all the time without any condition or drawback? After all, it's just an information perk! Knowing where the survivors are at all times doesn't means the killer would win all the chases they start!
Also, like... they already use WoO with all other perks that you are saying there, that's the other main problem of it. No matter what build you make, it is useful for all of them as it doesn't even need to be paired with anything to be really good, so you have 3 slots more for whatever speed boost or endurance perk you want to equip.
And I think I already made clear why me and other killers don't want to "play against it", so, there you have it.
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You are using false equivalencies that are not supporting your point like you think it is.
Also, it's a perk designed for new players. Let them have a tool to help them learn.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
Mind to point out where my logic fails or where I'm wrong?
And precisely it's problem as a "new players" perk is that it removes the necessity to learn how to properly play the game, as I already stated. That's why it is the NOED of survivors, if we use the same logic survivors use for wanting NOED even more nerfed that it already is.
So, again, is a perk that allows survivors to win chases that should not win, removes the need to get skillful and gain knowledge about the game and maps, and it gives even more advantages to the players that are already good at it when paired with other perks and combos that are granting them wins by themselves.
Like I said, almost one year ago WoO was already a problem for any M1 killer without chasing power and you could tell when you were chasing someone that was using it (mainly because they didn't even try to loop, just going from pallet to pallet). In the current state of the game, with all the speed boosts and endurances already extending chases at infinitum, it definitely needs a nerf. Simple as that.
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Vault speed is wildly overrated and you simply can't get enough for it to matter, this was true even with stacking spine chill on it as well.
MFT, Yes. Tho maybe keep it at 3% and remove haste stacking first to open up perk design and see where mft is at.Tho it'll probably still be too much
WoO is a perfectly fine perk, it's used by good players because it makes you consistent and tells you where what pallets are used and new players can use it to learn maps really fast. WoO doesn't make bad players good and good players unbeatable, bad players will use up the map at a pretty fast rate with pre dropping and camping and it doesn't magically make you able to chain loops
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Okay... again, why are you complaining? They pre-drop pallets. Throw on brutal strength, chew through them all, and win the game with two gens left.
This guy gets it.
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Made For This: Speed boost is reduced to a duration of 10 seconds. Endurance effect removed.
Resilience: No longer effects vaulting in any way or form, effect reduced to 7%
Windows of Opportunity: Reduced to 20 meters and has a cooldown of 10 seconds after dropping a pallet or vaulting.
Buckle Up: Idk just fix that stupid For The Peepo combo
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