Hook suicides are now the only remaining "DC" problem.
Bots are great to replace, often advantageously, a rage-quitting survivor.
But now that it's there, the selfishness of hook-suicides is even more evident.
Something needs to be done about it.
Comments
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They are .. however it's very complicated. Ideally, a system can be brought in to either remove the struggle or count the suicide as a disconnect. That would be some sort of fix.
The problem is if someone wants to leave, they will always find a way. Someone I played with today was "rescued" by me, only for them to seek out Ghost Face, teabag and then die. Basically, once the hook stage is dealt with, then that's what they'll do next.
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Very this. Are there definitely people who are just crybabies who get mad about one thing and give up? Sure, definitely. However, I've always found the approach of fixing what incentivizes the behavior more successful than punishing those who exhibit it.
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They could be adjusted without losing the mechanic altogether.
Instead of having three chances that deplete 20s of your 60s first stage timer that are available instantly, make it so you gain one escape attempt every 10s, which deplete the timer by 10s.
Functionally it's the same mechanism, but crucially it means that the minimum time you can be on first hook is 30s, rather than about 6s.
This would maintain it as the 'quickest way out of a game' without incurring a penalty, but it would be long enough for a team mate to potentially make a save. Only if the other survivors are pressured or otherwise engaged by the killer, or the killer is camping, would it be impossible to make the save, aka all scenarios in which you would legitimately want to 'go next' anyway.
If someone really wants to leave they can still offer themselves to the killer, but this 30s buffer and the resulting 'second chance' it provides can in a lot of cases turn it around and convince the survivor to give it a shot.
I know I've had games where I've been on the hook, and it's looked like no one would be able to rescue me, like all three were on a gen on the far side of the map and no one was coming for me. I take my chances and go to 2nd stage, then they run over and save me with about 15s left on my timer, meaning if I didn't take my chances, I would have kept a hook state. This buffer time would quell this sort or 'impatience' or otherwise hasty decisions to leave a game.
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That would be a bandaid fix.
You can't stop people for choosing to not play. There are a ton of different ways for people to give up and stop playing.
The devs need to fix the issues that cause people to give up nowadays.
You can't fix everything, people will still give up, but you can atleast make it more rare. And not the go to action when something happens.
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I think they should remove the option to suicide. Give survivors something else to do on hooks, something that gives bloodpoints but doesn't kill you, if you fail.
Oh and they should toss out temp bans for rage quitters. If the teammates report and the game logs show no input or running straight to the killer = temp ban.
Of course not on the first time. RL could be the cause for afk. But when it happens regularly, there should definitely be some sort of warning.
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That would not fix anything.
They will not be useful if you force them stay in game. They will sabotage the team, they will just hide and wait for hatch or they will just run to killer.
If they want to leave, forcing them stay will make things even worse.
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I don’t want it removed theres situations in a 2v1 where if I’m hooked for the first time I’m just gonna suicide to give the other guy hatch possibly
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If you read the second paragraph you would have seen I bore that in mind, being that someone who doesn't want in will get out regardless.
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Remove DC penalties.
That "encourages" players to DC over hook suiciding or just giving up.
Prevent Survivors from re-queing until their bot either dies or escapes the match. This keeps an aspect of the "penalty" in the system.
Give Survivors more BP gains in general, this would encourage people to stick out lost games a little more.
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I did.
I answered your comment because a lot people asks your suggestion on first paragraph. Like you said on your second paragraph, this won't fix anything.
Meg wants to leave game but she can't. What she is gonna do? Run to killer and give free down. Sit on gens and fail all skill checks for make killer come to you. Make killer run to repairing gens for sabotage your teammates. And we can't even report them because it's hard to tell if they are just bad player or sabotager.
BHVR should focus on why people are giving up that much, so this problem will happen less.
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The problem is that listening to players has as many negatives as positives. People may leave because of unfair mechanics, but people also leave because they just don't care. They can fix all the issues, but people mainly leave, disconnect or suicide because of what happened at that moment and not because of any over-arching problem. BHVR cannot deal with what happens in the moment.
Basically, I don't know what the official way of dealing with it, because there isn't one. It's down to the attitude of the individual - that's the only way to fix it and humans are notoriously stubborn.
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It wouldn't fix anything.
For example: People normal d/cing in DBD - Devs fixed it with bots for the most part.
Lets say the devs hypothetically make it to where giving up on hook is impossible - People will just press the 'Home' button on console and end the application OR Ctrl-Alt-Del on PC to d/c anyway. People are NOT going to do what they don't want to regardless of what the devs change.
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Yes, it's too easy. Maybe they could get rid of the 2nd phase checks : keep the 4%, prevent the easy way out.
That's already more work than what they need to do at the moment. And I don't know for other players but when I play killer and I understand a survivor wants the easy way out and everything else is normal (e.g. no other "suicides") I'll slug him for his trouble. (And I'll let his willing teammates heal him so he is useful to them.)
I'd get rid of the 2nd phase : no way to deplete it faster.
Survivors give up for any reason. That's outside the dev's responsibility.
A mini-game sounds like an interesting idea.
I've contemplated the idea removing the DC penalty but I'm afraid it would just increase the amount of bots in matches.
Accurately detecting a survivor running on purpose to the killer is next to impossible. It happens regularly on my games and they clearly don't do it on purpose.
To be fair, by killing themselves on hook they are already sabotaging the team.
If they press "home" the way you suggest, they would be replaced by a bot. A bot is already a good solution.
It would only encourage DCing even more. Bad map, strong killer, bad mood, wrong skin used, ...
As for BPs, they an incentive only for new players. From what I've noticed, it's usually the more experienced (not necessarily good) survivors who are giving up. Beginners are less entitled.
Post edited by drsoontm on0 -
Fixing MMR would help. Seeing that my teammates aren't participating in the match is an automatic nope-out from me. It's like the matchmaking is based around that broken school logic, where the teachers would pair up the D students with the A students, and the A students would be forced to carry the D students who don't bother to pull their weight. And in DbD it only takes one deadweight to pull down the entire team and give the killer a 3k, where the only one to escape is the deadweight because the killer never saw them all match crouching behind the rocks on the edges of the map.
BHVR should also reconsider allowing Blindness to affect hooked survivors. I've noticed that survivors are much more likely to at least attempt a self-unhook if not outright suicide if the killer is running some Blindness perk/add-on that prevents the survivor from seeing that a teammate is coming to rescue them.
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That's the point. You incentivize people to use the bot system, but you don't allow them to just go into a new game instantly.
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Yeah there is, they can ban people who do it. That'll stop it real quick. Same with AFK, same with trolling, same with bodyblocking.
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So am I going to be forced to stay on hook and not give the last survivor a chance of hatch
because if I dont hit skill checks I get a DC?
No thanks
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Preach!
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...its more like banning someone for flipping the table when something doesnt go their way in the game. People dont like playing with people like that.
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This wouldn't work, cause suicide on hook is still the free way out, you still have a penalty for DCing.
The problem you have got is you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
- If you allow DCs with no penalty, you get more bots in games, as people won't bother period, as there is no reason not to DC.
- If you have DCs with a penalty, people exploit the unhook system, which outside of being exploited is fine for the most part. Gives a small chance in desperate situations, but is too unlikely to try for without good reason.
The only thing I can think of is a windback. If someone triple unhook attempts, then misses 2 skill checks, DC them, windback and replace them with a bot on hook.
I'd then keep a tally for each account, possibly tied to reports as well, where if a player does it an unspecified number of times (with a lengthy cooldown to remove tallies off your account) you are slapped with a HEFTY ban. Like 5 days or something.
If players never crack the system (and trying to work it out is time consuming and punishing), then you have a big deterrent. You CAN leave any time you want... but you are taking a risk of getting a big ban if you do. That's the only way to stop it. Players will probably then revert to running to the killer to die... but that's where player reports for helping the killer come in.
The point is to have a big enough deterrent that you might as well play it out. Why forc epoeple to play if they don't want to? DbD is an asycnhronous game designed for 4vs1 in a match context. There is no mechanism to drop in and drop out, the game isn't designed that way, if you queue, you need to commit.
If you ARE gonna allow no penalty DC, the only other way I could think of doing it is have a seperate queue for solo survivors with HUUUUUUGE BP rewards, that allows them to connect to in progress games and replace the bot. However again, you'll have this occur way more often than it already does if you allow it.
Post edited by UndeddJester on1
