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I think there needs to be a Ranked mode queue separation

I hear a frankly ridiculous amount of complaints when reading forums, perusing discords, watching YT videos, talking to people post-match, etc. that this game is horribly balanced in damn near every way.

From the massive range of efficacy between the best and worst killers, the best and work perks, etc.

To the swingy favoritism of map designs that results in some matches being near-guaranteed wins for one side or the other (or, at best, a painful and not at all enjoyable experience for one side or the other)

And perhaps most prominently, the idea that the game doesn't have an MMR system (or that whatever system it does have is flawed); therefore resulting in numerous swingy matches where hardcore veterans go up against relatively young or, god forbid, brand new players and end up stomping a match without even really trying. Worst of all, they can't predict or expect this- and so they bring the best stuff they can on the chance they do run into other good players and need every scrap they can get.


I think a prominent solution to all 3 of these problems- or at least a strong stopgap measure to help alleviate the symptoms of these issues while real solutions are discovered and implemented- would be the create a Queue separation between Casual and Ranked play as is seen in the vast majority of competitive video games. It's convention for a reason!

The first and most obvious benefit is that those who truly care most about winning can be assured that every game is against those who likewise care the same. Those who simply want to have a calm, casual match, can rest assured that the hyper-gods running all the top tier stuff are more than likely in the ranked mode. Obviously it's not a perfect solution, as there will be jerkwads who are more than happy to tryhard in the casual queue anyways with full intent on stomping new players, but at the very least this kind of system will prevent that from happeningly accidentally. And, of course, casual would still have some kind of MMR system to help balance things out a bit; in fact the main thing here is just the separation of two playerbases with differing mindsets so that they do not come into conflict and push out players.

Furthermore, the Ranked mode can either be made/forced to have a "Drafting" system or a third, even more "tryhard" queue with a Drafting system can be implemented. A DBD Draft would, of course, emulate the purpose behind Drafts in other competitive games. Allow the players in any given match to decide what things are too strong to allow their opponents to have. This way, the Draft queue can essentiall self-balance the game by disallowing swingy, FOTM options which are too strong or too powerful due to recent changes and help preserve the integrity and legitimacy of their matches.

A Draft for DBD would look something like this:

Two teams of 5; 4 Survivors and 1 Killer each

First, each team bans 1 Killer (or 2, since the killer count is starting to climb a bit)

Then each team bans 2 Killer perks (feels good to me, but some might argue for 3 each)

Then each team bans 2 Survivor perks (same as killer perks)

Then the teams are presented with a number of individual maps (5 is probably a good number), and they each ban 1 of them. The game will happen on one of the remaining maps, chosen at random.

Then each team locks in their Killer and survivors. Each team can pick the same killer, but any given survivor cannot appear more than once on a given team (So both teams could have a Claudette, but neither team can have more than 1 claudette).

Then each team bans 1 Addon from the enemy team's killer (which, if both teams picked the same killer, would ban that addon for both killers on both sides)

Then each team bans 2 Addons from the various items in the game (but not the items themselves).

Then they go into the loadout phase where they have 2 minutes to pick their perks, addons, offerings, and strategize. BP and Map offerings cannot be used, and all players on both teams get double BP just for playing the Queue (as if they had all used cake/pudding). But game affecting addons such Luck, Oaks, Vials, and Blueprints can be used.

Then they play the game! The team that "wins" and gains MMR is determined by whichever team collectively does better, which would be measured as follows:

First, whichever team completed the most gens.

If gens are tied, whichever team got the most hook stages on survivors.

If hooks and gens are tied, whichever team didn't use hatch.

If both or neither used hatch, whichever team had fewer Moris.

If all the above is tied, whichever team didn't use a key for their hatch.

If all of that is the same as well, then whichever game was shorter is the winning game for the survivors in that match unless all 4 survivors died on both teams- in which case its a win for the killer's team in the shorter match.

If for some god forsaken reason this is a tie as well (though the odds are extraordinarily low!) then and only then is it called a Draw and neither team wins or loses.


For a more solo-friendly version of this more resemblant of the current Queue, you could easily adjust the Draft phase as so:

Each survivor bans 1 Killer and 1 Perk, the Killer bans 4 Survivor perks and 2 item addons

Map is true random, Maps/Sacs are allowed - but is locked in before the Killer locks in

Killer locks in, then survivors vote to ban 2 Addons; picking randomly on ties.

Everyone can set up their loadouts during the Draft, but is still given 1 extra minute after the draft to make last minute changes.

Game begins, the Killer wins if they get 3+ kills, the Survivors win if at least 2 people escape. Simple as!

Comments

  • Kaitsja
    Kaitsja Member Posts: 1,838
    edited August 2023

    A ranked mode would not make the game any better. It would simply result in split queues, which benefits nobody. If I wanted that, I'd go play Overwatch. People complain about balance in dbd but forget that their competitive multiplayer games are generally balanced top down.

    Dbd does not balance from the top down. In top-down balance, the game is most balanced at the highest level of play and the people at the top inarguably know the most and what's best for that level of play. But top-down balance isn't perfect. It's based on the idea that buffs and nerfs will trickle down the ladder, which makes sense in theory until you realize that buffs and nerfs don't affect each skill bracket equally.

    Here's an example from Overwatch. The devs released a hero to shut down a meta. This hero went on to dominate the game, quickly becoming the most picked with the highest winrate and basically being a tank despite being a support. After many many nerfs, they settled on a rework that turned the character into being heavily reliant on their team. The hero was still strong at the highest levels of play, but inarguably significantly weaker at the low and mid levels of play.

    The rework did not have an equal effect on every skill bracket, because the changes were made with the highest level of play in mind.

    Arguably, dbd is the most balanced it's ever been. The devs are working on maps to make them less survivor/killer-sided. Perks could still use some work, but the devs are getting there. Killer powers are generally pretty balanced, too. There's not much in the game that could be considered too strong.

  • Dicerson
    Dicerson Member Posts: 6
    edited August 2023

    I do agree that the game is heading in the right direction balance wise. Not every change is perfect, but they're definitely hitting more than missing in recent patches (although not with Sadako, IMO. Made her entirely reliant on her iri to really be any good)

    However, the only real reason DBD isn't failing as a game is because it's the only particularly good option available at the moment. Most other games that could compete suffered severe mismanagement issues that led to shut down.

    While it is certainly the case that top-down balance is perfect- it's better than pretty much anything else implemented by just about any competitive game in the history of ever (with exception, of course, to games which are perfectly symmetrical and static like Chess or certain older fps titles).

    The game, as it stands, very frequently creates skewed matches, and as a result it is not uncommon for players on both sides feel like they're constantly losing (even if they really aren't, because brain psychology and the nature of asymmetrical games with independant victory conditions). MMR (and ranking systems in general) as a concept were invented because of this very issue.

    Noone enjoys playing a game that feels unwinnable, noone enjoys the feeling of helplessness that comes from having to face insurmountable odds because the game matched you into someone several times above your skill level. Good players hardly notice when they're stomping, often only remembering the few matches where they get trounced by virtue of downright agonizing strategies that vary from difficult to unbeatable depending on map luck.

    Even if it only happens once out of every 5-10 games, the amount of frustration generated by that occasional crippling defeat is enough to sour the experience of every single other match. The dread that it could happen at literally any time drives people away, and causes burnout to accelerate to an incredible degree. There is a very, very good reason why every single time a potential competitor title comes up, the DBD playerbaser flocks to that game in droves out of sheer desperation for something better.


    Obviously, a split queue for casual/ranked isn't an endall solution. Like I mentioned in the post, its ultimately a stopgap measure that allows players to at least have some control and open visibility. It lets players who don't want to constantly risk having their entire day ruined by one bad game do something to actively avoid that outcome, by allowing the players whose mere existence leads that outcome play in an entirely separate queue.

    For the more serious players, it at leats let them feel less bad about taking strong stuff because they know they aren't like to be crushing any baby killers/survivors. And a Drafting system would also give players a dramatic degree of control over the game balance itself, letting players decide on a personal basis what things are too unfun/unfair and therefore avoid having to deal with it. Thus removing frustration and generally improving the entire game experience.


    There's a reason, as stated in the OP, that this kind of stuff is a convention. It isn't just a tradition, it was invented with a purpose in mind- and it fulfils it near perfectly. Even with active competition, games with accurate Ranking systems and fair Drafts are very very good at preserving their playerbase and lowering burnout. Especially if such systems are coupled by clear and obvious patch-by-patch improvements to the game.

  • saym
    saym Member Posts: 82

    The answer is simple. In rank mode, it can be solved by penalizing the increase or decrease of rating depending on the killer. Disabling SWF solves it. But there are two types of players. "Enjoy Player" and "Expert Player". So how can both players have fun? The answer is simple. It is to implement casual mode and ranked mode.