Do You Really Believe Killer is the Easiest It's Ever Been?

The further back you go the more absolutely hilariously busted stuff exists on both sides. Killers could facecamp the prompt away, survivors could pallet vacuum and so on. If you go really far back it only gets even wilder as you could get completely wacky stuff like first-down ebony mori vs insta-gen BNPs and stuff.

But no, it's not the easiest it has ever been. If I had to pick one point in time that was the case it was still relatively recent though, it was during the height of the eruption-centered gen kicking meta.

Playing killer back in the days, right after BHVR fixed the most blatant infinites, was way easier and more relaxed. I can’t be bothered to look up the exact patch, but probably at the beginning of 2017.

And this was not because of some buffs or nerfs or game mechanics that no longer exist, most people just didn’t know how to play survivor optimally, gens took way longer (survivors were way less efficient) and looping was still being discovered.

Even with double pallets everywhere and no exhaustion, because killer gameplay is way easier to pick up. Nowadays as a new player you just go on YouTube and let explain to you how to play survivor the correct way.

Don't forget the laughable new tiles and loops on Cold Wind and Azarov's, they rlly expect all survivors to be pro loopers and put 1 pallet around a tiny table and remove decent jungle gyms. Also no corn anymore so nowhere to hide they're making the maps so killer sided as well it's not just perks or base kit anymore.

yes everything that helped a survivor you list as past tense “had” “was” survs will have nothing left to help them anymore next minute devs will remove pallets altogether at this rate, solo q future has never looked as bleak :(

Solo Q is only bad because the devs refuse to make a ranked mode and proper matchmaking system. They still have strong tools at their disposal

many survivors were against the killer's fov slider because it would allow him to see more through the textures A.K they are so survivors that they didn't realize that the killer was playing in first person and couldn't see through the textures

so believe me, even if the killer has a speed of 0.1 and the gates are open all the time, some survivors will continue to scream that the game is too killer side

Sounds an awful lot like you're the reason your team is dying. You're escaping because others are running a less selfish build. If all 4 survivors played for Sole Survivor you'd escape alot less.

They've changed rank requirements numerous times over the years.

NGl I liked my Killer games a heck of a lot more back when DH was meta. With DH you could at least bait it out, mind-game or try to use it to your advantage and worst case scenario eat it.

But with so many speed and endurance effects in play now, it's just chase from one pallet to the next while survivors hold W. So it's go for gen-jockeys. Because usually you can't even mind-game survivors, most of them just run from one pallet to the next.

It's true though, in SoloQ, usually die more often because of my teammates not doing much or downright sandbagging, or on my 1st hook after having looped the killer for several gens/get face-camped to death.

To give you an example of the type of teammates in SoloQ: last night I had a game where 1 teammate got grabbed off a gen, and suddenly they gave up, I looped the killer for a LONG time and zero gens popped, after 15 min I just went to the killer. While on hook, I saw my 2 other teammates just stand around and hide. Apparently they were just holding keys and would walk to the edges of the map not doing anything, just standing. For 20+ minutes... I reported them and moved on, but I feel horrible for that poor killer who had to sit through that BS.

It's not scary...it's just mostly annoying/frustrating now, lol.

Speaking of kill rates....it has been almost a year since we last saw kill rates. Something like kill rates (and perk usage) should be shared quarterly. If not just to give us insight into BHVRs direction for the game. And to keep not as useful data from outside sites from entering the conversation.

Honestly yes they took away boil over's boost to wiggle, of your not running a swf there is zero effort to save so you get hooked no matter what, and this is coming from a someone who solo queue's quite often, there really is no reason to play survivor unless its for a challenge.

Killer was probably at its strongest after 6.1 and before 6.7. That was because the degen 3 genkick build was at its peak, and DS was effectively deleted. After 6.7 with the loss of degen 3 genkick (on all but SM), Killer still has the 50 extra minimum gen seconds, 10% hit/kick cd, and Survs have 10% less, and no real anti-tunnel. So Killer is still stronger than pre-6.1, but weaker than that 6.1-6.7 middle ground. Killers who crutched on the advantages that literally a monkey/8 year old with a spacebar could win with, lost those advantages to crutch on. As a result, they reached an MMR they didn't belong in, and it is harder to lose MMR than gain. That could be the only reason a Killer would think it is more difficult than pre-6.1.

Facecamping has always been inferior to proxycamping, which still exists. Proper facecamping could only be done by instadown Killers like Bubba/Iri Hatchet Huntress, or perma injured Killers like Legion/Plague/Iri Pinhead. Proper facecamping has been untouched, and proxycamping hasn't gotten weaker.

NOED: I'd argue this changed nothing kill rate wise. The more people staying to seek out NOED and getting an extra person out, the more are also dying from an over-extension. It doesn't change the actual problem with NOED, which is hooking someone on the totem itself. When people see the Killer is guarding hook and totem, they don't stay, regardless if they see the aura or not. That happened before and after the aura change. As a side note, I think NOED should be basekit with 0k in endgame, to help slow Survs down if the Killer is evening out pressure/'playing fair', and once the Killer gets a kill, the basekit NOED dies (ala Ruin) or doesn't spawn in endgame.

Mori: They swapped this with the Twins release, so Dec 2020. Which also existed in concert with busted medkits, usable DS, and more. But yes, this was busted. It was an Iri add-on though, and before the BP rework, so if you could only win with Moris it would show. As most matches you wouldn't have a Mori.

Borrowed Time: It was basekit, although Survivors had 3 perk slots /s. It was known that it was such a need, that most people brought BT regardless. Killers would prefer to not lose time hitting a Survivor with BT (and a potential DS), so they would typically only do it if it were free, or to get a STBFL stack.

Pain Res: The reveal was only if Survivors didn't let go immediately before hook, which could only be done consistently with Fearmonger, but Killers seem to not have the perk slot for Fearmonger when I recommend it to them. Even then, the intel didn't matter if you had enough map awareness or other intel sources. Yes, theoretically you could get more let go skill checks, but you also aren't forced to go to a Scourge hook every time now. The breakeven with current PR and old PR (including the math with letgo skill checks) is 6/7 hooks. 6 hooks or fewer is better for current PR, and 7 or more is better for old PR. The only way to get 6 hooks without a kill is to have 2 people death hook. Killers can easily get a kill then win a 3v1, so I'd argue this is better now than it was before.

Ruin/Undying: Ruin (along with every other perk in 6.1) shouldn't have been nerfed. It was perfectly fine as it was before that patch. Both old Ruin and old Undying were noobstompers though, and that isn't a good thing. Skilled Survs understand totem spawns, and can seek them out without losing too much time, but new players don't know where to look. Also newer Survs are worse at skillchecks, so old ruin regression on good skill checks was again, a noobstomper. If Hyperfocus is a complaint with PC/skilled Survs, then it proves old Ruin only was good against weak players to begin with. Undying was only the RNG super spread 2/5 cleanses from 4.2 until pivoted in 4.5. That was Sep 2020 -> Feb 2021. Now it can swap tokens so it works with Devour Hope. To be fair there was an overlap with 1 hook Moris from Sep to Dec, but I wouldn't consider a 2 patch/month timeframe long enough. (6 months imo is enough).

Pop/Eruption: I think old Pop was fine, again 6.1 changes bad. Now however it does 30% current, which is better than old pop from when the 4th piston is active (or ~67 gen seconds/90). Even then, why waste the time kicking a 25% gen, just save the pop for another one. Even 50% gens don't lose too much (13.5 pop gen seconds from 20). Eruption though was fine where it was before 6.1, and even now after 6.6. Now a Pop+Eruption+Nowhere to Hide build is super strong on even M1 Killers with any form of Mobility like Sadako/Wraith/Freddy. People like to troll post saying 'just wait' for the buffed Eruption or claiming SWF can comm it, but you can't just not progress gens while someone is in chase in soloq, and SWF comms aren't immutable unless you are intentionally going down early.

Spam Endurance: Again, a bad change in 6.1 (who would have guessed), prevented all forms of Endurance from stacking. You can't spam Endurance if you can only get 1 source, whether it is anti-tunnel Endurance or otherwise, so this claim is an outright lie. This is why OTR is a joke of a perk, because with ears, a Killer can know whether to proc the basekit BT to deny the OTR. I would just make it so anti-tunnel Endurance doesn't deep wound, but while you have anti-tunnel Endurance you lose collision. That way OTR/BT can't bodyblock, and they also can't be blocked from vaulting. This would also allow for a DH or Styptic if the Killer turbo tunnels through all anti-tunnel endurance as well.

Gen speed perks: What gen speed perk wasn't mirrored in greater strength by the 90s gens? Deja Vu was largely the same, but because of 3gen Killers, it now has a permanent duration and 1% buff, so you can blame Knight and SM mains for that. (~76s 5% vs ~85s 6%) Friendly Competition is a gen speed nerf, because you have to lose 15% per person to duo, or 30% per person to trio a gen. (Solo 2 gens in 90s, or duo in 53s+duo in ~50s for 103s total for 2 gens) Same with Prove Thyself which nearly negated the penalty, but now doesn't even do that. (Solo 2 gens in 90s, Old PT ~92s for 2 duo'd gens, New PT ~96s for 2 duo'd gens) Object of Obsession gets 6% for 3s every 30s, so .6% average, that's so bad I'm not doing the math. Overzealous was introduced as 6% with 80s gens, and now is 10% with 90s gens, but also don't forget you can just injure them to force them into another 14s cleanse/bless. (~75s 6% vs ~82s 10%) You need 2 100% gens to breakeven and get a tiny bit of profit from the totem time, and that's without getting injured. Quick Gambit gives gen haste when the Killer can hear the team working on gens... so the Killer can interrupt it... yeah great /s. Spine Chill now requires direct LOS, so that lost what little gen haste it had to give. Resilience hasn't been changed from the 9%. Hyperfocus is only good when you dedicate your entire build to it with BTL/Stakeout/Juicy Toolbox, but that is more the problem with it working with Toolboxes than anything. I'd be totally fine with Hyperfocus not working with Toolboxes. So nearly every gen haste perk is garbage, is actually a gen slowdown perk (PT/Friendly Comp.), or doesn't even compare to the basekit 10s gens got in the first place.

Multiple Haste Perks: The only new ones are BT's haste (go for the rescuer and it doesn't mess with Killer), Made for This (can't work while exhausted), Teamwork Power of Two (which requires a heal and is lost on injury, so it can't stack with MfT), and Nic Cage's perks which are either exhaustion (doesn't stack with MfT, and 1/3rd or 2/3rds a Sprint Burst with the dice roll) or only used when the Killer wouldn't be hit by them (Plot Twist to heal, or Dramaturgy to roll the dice for items). Even then both, TPoT and Blood Pact require 2 people in chase, so Killer has extra slowdown. (either 2 people not doing gens, or 2 people are forced to duo gens with the 15% penalty each) Fearmonger counters Made for This, and if you had the space for it with old PR for intel then you have the space for it now, especially when it arguably is more valuable (also denies Dramaturgy item farming). Heck, MfT is worse than Sprint Burst in terms of distance until 50s of running. Bloodlust 3 takes 35s to build up, so if a Killer can't down someone with 15s of Bloodlust 3 that's a personal problem.

Windows: It doesn't change what is on the map, which can be learned from understanding map knowledge, and utilized by both sides. For skilled Survs, it is a perk tax for soloq to understand what pallets were already used. I'd argue Any Means Necessary is better overall for skilled Survs.

With butchered anti-tunnel, and butchered medkits, and extensive basekit buffs, Killer is quite easy in comparison to what they have to deal with. Even when things were super strong for Killer, there were equivalent strong counters, such as 5s DS, 8s Syringe heals, and more. Due to the lack of the oppositional strength, Killer is relatively stronger. They might not have the noobstomping old ruin/undying, or the brainless 3gen perks, but anyone relying on those crutches artificially inflated their rank/MMR anyways, and never learned how to deal with better opponents. I don't disagree that bad teammates cause more deaths, but that doesn't change how strong or weak Killer and Survivor are relative to each other.

We feel like joining the echo chamber just because "We all know it's true if you played killer back then you know it was easier then." While true on a technicality this is effectively false.

Killer was easiest during the kick meta, which wasn't THAT long ago. Currently, while it isn't the easiest its still MUCH better than back then [we are assuming you mean way back like plague release or earlier]. Since we've also been here for 6 years we feel like we got a decent claim for that. In addition, the points are scattered through the timeline and some are effectively null (survivors always had perks for gen speed and have 4 perks for movement speed, 3 of which are relatively recent and have conditions [Hope needs endgame, theory is tied to a totem, mft requires you being injured and not exhausted, power of 2 requires a full heal and for you 2 to stick together close and healthy]. Vaults have always been hit or miss depending on the map such as both old and new haddonfield.)

Survivors also had A LOT more powerful tools to play with which plenty of people above have listed so we wont bother (which are also oddly enough scattered through space and time). While you have a point that killers have lost some things, most are still serviceable to a strong extent while some, such as true face camping and moris off hook, were unhealthy for the game.

Your free to your own opinion but calling it an out right lie ("falsehood") and your opinion true isn't gona work with the evidence on hand.