MfT doesn't need a nerf, Resilience does
So potential hot take here but I actually think the 3% isn't a massive issue on it's own but when you can stack it with Resilience it becomes ridiculous. Getting to a vault faster and then you just get to vault 9% faster after meaning there is no close hits at a window and then you get even more distance because that's how windows work and then you get to do gens faster too if that wasn't enough is beyond disgusting.
Just take the vault speed away from Resilience and that might be enough but it's extremely gross as is at the present moment.
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Personally, I'm not a fan of them messing with core mechanics. MFT and Coup (for killer side) are great examples of this. Set speeds for running and set distances for a swing are the building blocks that this game was created on. Messing with things like this opens many a can of worms.
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Resi is such a tiny percentage iirc
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I've always found it a bit weird that Spine Chill got axed but Resil didn't, at least on the vault speed. Now, Resil is the only perk I can think of that actively effects vault speed. I might be wrong though, this game has a lot of ######### perks.
That being said, I personally don't mind it too much.
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Leave resilience alone. We already had gen repair time increased by 10 seconds and a prove Thyself nerf. You'll be fine.
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So we can buff killer speeds across the board by 3% right?
That's such a tiny percentage.
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I wouldn't nerf a perk because of another which exists. I also don't feel that's the main concern with MFT.
Resilience works absolutely fine as a perk. MFT (if it did not stack with other speed perks like Hope, nor have an additional effect that essentially is a perk in of itself in enduring) would also be fine.
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If we went by this logic CoB + Overcharge never should have gotten touched when it was absolutely correct to do so.
Perks do not exist in a vacuum.
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We should just remove bloodlust then.
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i would trade 9% vault speed against a ping limit of 150ms.
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They were nerfed because, even by themselves, they were too strong. So the logic still stands as they would have been touched anyway.
I agree perks don't exist in a vacuum, but it's about making sure newer perks don't allow this to happen to such an unworkable degree. It's about planning newer perks.
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You completely missed my point which was "a tiny percentage" here and there adds up to be very significant and is a very hand-wavey response.
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Iirc, Resilence boosts vault speeds by .045 seconds.
I don't really think ANY movement speed bonuses are comparable to such a small boost to vault speed. You'd have a better time arguing the gen speed aspect of Resi
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Resi got nerfed when Spine Chill did.
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I mean sure I agree it would have been nice if BHVR had the foresight to see this coming along with MfT + Hope but honestly end game is a joke as is anyway so that's less of a problem IMO.
That being the fact is we're here now and I don't think builds that loop for survivors without them actually learning how to loop themselves is healthy for the game and is something to be addressed. Playing m1 killers is miserable at the moment because it feels like you can never catch up even when survivors fall for mind games.
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Then by this logic so does blood lust. The core concept is that it gives Killers a Speedboost when they are underperforming in chases which breaks the balance between Survivor and Killer speeds.
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When it's the difference between a down and a chase going on another 20-25 seconds or more saying "look number smol" doesn't really mean anything.
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resi is just as annoying as MfT, but I'd rather deal with faster vaults than with 3% because the latter is way more versatile and it really mainly hurts only walking speed chase killers like Trapper, Wraith, Knight or Singularity.
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They did.
In 6.1.0 they have 10% action speed to nearly every killer action, like blade wiping, break actions, damaging generators, improved bloodlust gain, and some I'm probably forgetting.
Been hearing nothing but how 'useless and meaningless' those base kit, free buffs were for over a year now, but oh. my. god let's ######### about 3% on a perk incessantly.
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I'm going to keep a counter of people not realizing that this is literally my point and saying something only boosts something "by a tiny percentage" is not a valid argument for it not being impactful.
We're at a point now where those changes have gotten powercreeped because we reached critical mass on survivors perks that boost their numbers in chase.
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Then by this Logic so does BloodLust, it increases Killer Speed and unbalances the core chase mechanic.
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I never said it was meaningless.
I said you're completely ignoring a 10% gain to complain about 3%. You're the one who was trying to say how broken it would be if killers got buffed... which they did, globally, base kit, for free, no perks required, and for larger values.
That seems inconsistent, and frankly biased.
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But this only applies to the End Game Scenario. I've had Killers chase be down only because they got into Tier 2 and Tier 3 with Blood Lust. Is that fun/fair?
Killers also have the option to build end game build that block the gates controls, block the exits, then you can stack Terminus and NOED as well for extra speed.
I don't want to turn this into a Killer/Survivor Debate, I'm only pointing out that but both sides have the same type of perks.
Also its rare you see someone running both MFT and Hope. I see this as much as I run when you run into some using end and game build as Killer.
It's suck when you encounter its, but you move onto the next game.
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Whether or not BL2 and BL3 should exist is a different discussion and I wouldn't hate it if they were gone but BL1 exists because it turns out survivors and killers are not the same and in some loops it's extremely difficult to catch up depending on the window setup so BL1 exists to make those loops less abusable.
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You're aware kill rates were at an all time low and literally nobody wanted to play killer when those changes happened yes?
They had to make those changes just get people to play killer again.
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Looking at the 100% bonus for killer i´ve had since the middle of the day, i´d say those times are coming back.
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The odds of less than .050 of a second making a difference is low, ESPECIALLY factoring in ping.
Like even MFT I GET the complaints for. The perk is STRONG and just via its numbers, you can tell. It gains you a lot of distance on pallet break and that's probably the main strength for regular players.
Resi isn't like that. Its strength isn't its .045 faster vaults. It's the action speed increase. Exit Gates, Gens and Healing. It's not strong, but it is good.
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Again BL2/ BL3 existence is dubious but this has turned into a discussion I didn't want it to. Again end game is a joke so I think MfT + Hope is largely harmless. This is why I very specifically made the topic about MfT + Resilience because that lasts all game long and I'm all for chases being longer with chase perks and killers having strong chase perks (I run CDG + STBFL every game for reference) but the issue is when gens are flying in a background it makes those 1v1s anxiety inducing because you don't really have the time to screw around.
I don't think we want longer gens and gen regression I think is in a good spot right now and I think as a result this leaves two possible solutions. Either way stronger killer chase perks or we nerf survivor chase perks to be a bit more reasonable. The first option would actually be my preference but that's something that will take months to a year to actually happen so for the short term I think we need to make survivors stacking chase perks more reasonable.
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I am with you insofar as perks shouldn't supercede the ability of the player. Players should survive (or kill) far more based on their own skill than be successful solely because of a perk. Perks should be in an assistant capacity as opposed to being the sole reason for victory.
I've had more of an issue with MFT stacking with Hope, honestly. During trials, when the results board comes up, I've not sufficiently noted that MFT made a difference unless it is paired with Hope. Maybe it's down to subjective standpoints, but when you take away the stack and endurance, the 3% only gives so much from my experience.
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But understanding when to Chase and when to stop comes with experience and game sense. When I play Killer if I find the "super looper" or if they are trying to bait me into an early Shack or God Loop chase then I know not to follow. There's always weaker prey to hunt, and as soon as you find the weak link you can start to snowball.
I think we are saying and agreeing on the same thing, anything that changes the core mechanics that provides a bonus to either side, that can be accessed Mutiple times in the match is generally bad design. It just creates a crutch that impedes raising the players skill and game sense, which further leads to difficulties removing it from the game.
If there is a system like this place there should be a system in place to make it high risk/higher reward. Resilience and MFT requires the survivor to be hurt. Blood lusting a Survivor should increase the pallet stun.
The other part of this is Map RNG with tiles and pallets spawning in ways both advantageous and disadvatenous to both sides.
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3% speed is indeed strong, but we can manage. But why the 6s Endurance effect on top of it? It's like two perks in one. 1.5 perks if we want to be generous.
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Right I generally agree and the 3% is really only noticeable by itself in the sense of survivors getting able to greed one extra time around pallets. What I believe is a problem is when you add this with the vault speed of resilience it can extend certain tiles like T and L walls to a level that's rather gross, that's what I think has to be addressed.
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MFT decreases the difference between the survivor and killer's movement speed by 20%, and that doesn't even factor in looping. It is a massive problem. The only way they keep the movement speed and it stays fair, is if it gives the killer a buff to their lunge speed or distance when chasing that survivor, or giving the perk some kind of massive downside, or activation requirement.
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MFW I make a thread about Resilience and it turns into a MfT thread anyway.
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I've seen a lot of top survivor players say resilience is more of juicer perk than MfT and from my own experiences I agree. You make so many more vaults you wouldn't otherwise with Resilience and it's very noticeable in game. Again saying "smol number" is meaningless when you can see the tangible effect it has in game.
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Resilience vault speed is nowhere near as impactful as a 3% Haste effect. Plus, Made for This can often let you reach a vault faster, to the point that you do not need the extra vault speed from Resilience to avoid a hit.
Vault speed is the only thing Resilience does for you in chase and its other effects are primarily used outside of chase and usually require taking the risk of staying injured to use. Made for This does a lot more in chase than just let you reach a vault faster and is overall far more versatile, other than not being able to use it while exhausted (and even then, it still pairs great with DH). And that's before I even go into MFT's Endurance effect which is just absolutely overkill for a perk which has a primary effect that by itself is already one of the strongest effects in the game.
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damn bloodlusting nurses
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Okay, here just humor me for this.
What's the average ping you get in DBD?
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Probably around 32-54
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The funny thing is that this perk has not changed since the release of the game. However, throughout all those years, no one complained about it until after the End Transmission chapter.
If anything, this is a perfectly balanced perk
In short, you are a person who does not like to face any perks survivors and do not blame yourself for your mistakes and put them on others
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Resil has not changed once besides a bugfix patch yeah. And it wasnt even considered a buff/nerf. Its probably the epitome of a balanced perk. It shouldnt change. I love its design.
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Right that's about where mine hovers as well.
What would you say that the average Killers ping is that you play against?
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I mean hard to say since you can't see it but probably anywhere from 25-110 if I had to make an educated guess.
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Right, it is pretty hard to say, sure wish we had a ping counter for Killers too lol.
Anyways, 45ms of Ping is equal to the same amount of time Resi shaves off of a vault, .045 seconds. I'm pretty sure that if the Killer has more than 45ms of ping more than you, that completely cancels out Resi.
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Lol
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so you want to nerf a perk that is totally fine , instead of reworking a haste survivor perk with 2 strong effects combined , and 1 that literally causes a lot of problems due to how the maps werent designed taking MFT in mind neither the loops.
LOGICS
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They said resi not mft lmao.
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They're outright wrong or baiting lmao. 9% vault speed is basically nothing, It's literally the rat liver of survivors.
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Made For This should have 2 potential changes.
1.) The main effect activates only while in a chase.
2.) The perk activates once you been chased after so many seconds. In exchange you begin to run faster and faster over time.
The first idea is to make sure survivors aren’t just zooming about the map. This perk also allows survivors to reach hooks a lot faster. Which is busted. Don’t argue this. Why? Imagine if killers got a perk where they’re X% faster for every generator completed, or for every dead survivor. Imagine if Devour Hope wasn’t a Totem. Heck, imagine Fired Up being base kit. It’s the same principle.
The second idea is preferable imo, and makes most sense. Essentially every so many seconds in a chase a survivor gets a 3% Haste over time up to a maximum %. So if a killer decides to tunnel a player instead of leaving them be the killer will face the consequences of wasting their time.
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Let's look at this logically. What's the problem?
A perk that's been in the game since day one and hasn't received a single unchanged in the entire game's history, and whose main chase benefit is making a fast vault 0.045 seconds faster which only matters in the tightest of hits.
Or, a perk that from PTB everyone said would be a problem, that then hit live and was instantly loathed because of every reason people said from PTB, absolutely dominates the meta in a way comparable to Dead Hard (before its last nerf), synergizes with perks that on their own are fine but when combined are outright unfair (such as MFT-Hope), and also has a secondary effect making it a tremendously helpful anti-slugging perk on top of its powerful chase benefit, effectively making it two perks in one.
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Resilience is strong, but it's not problematic. The value's too low for it to matter at all if you are actively trying to be healthy. I admit that it can be a game changer, but so can every decent perk.
MfT is strong and kinda problematic. However, right now survivor vaults are majorly buffed, and they're reverting the change soon. This buff has temporarily decreased the distance a survivor needs to run to safely perform a window vault. MfT accentuates that problem, and I'm surprised you're more concerned with Resilience.
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