I refuse to play against Sadako.
I refuse to play against Sadako until she gets reverted and then nerfed as an apology,from the Developers,for bringing,yet another,killer that's broken & busted and nearly impossible to play unless you go full coordonation on discord!
She's not healthy for the game,disable her and then rework her!
IDC if she's M1,Blight's M1 and he's still infuriating and not fun to face,Doctor's M1 and I never heard someone say "I loved facing Clown"!
Beign M1 doesn't excuse a killer for beign a headache enducer!
It's worse when she also uses stupid perks,because every mediocre perk on her,it's strong.
She's a Hag if Hag was useful,in the sense she's everywhere and she gets to know where everyone is!
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And then the sudden hag slander... like why?
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Don't see the issue with her. I haven't been condemned once yet.
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That's partially luck/RNG, then. Too many variables you can't control. If the Sadako has the intent and the right loadout, it's gonna happen if you play enough.
At least 1/2-1/3 of games I play against her now I get condemned. And I have been seeing her a lot.
Before her changes it never happened.
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It's not luck or RNG, it's understanding her counter play, utilizing it, and being good at looping m1 killers. I play way, way more than the average player so I've already had a decent sample size.
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The only games I have issues with her is when everyone is too terrified to go in chase with her and refuse to pick up tapes. Every game when I have at least one other survivor pick up a tape she tends to get one kill max. Then I have games where survivors think the tapes will give them cancer and they're afraid to pick them up and end up building up condemned the whole game.
I do feel slugging should just be discouraged - Even though I rarely see the build I still see bad players try to drag the game out by slugging players to get condemned kills. To discourage that alone I would prefer condemned stacks decay every 20 seconds while a survivor is in the dying state.
If a player sees that as making her useless then they were already doing ######### all in their games as her aside from dragging the game out to be annoying.
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Cant counter Sadako? Skill issue.
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Sadako is very unfair to go against, to counter her I have to *checks notes* press one button.
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I only got her like three times.
I got a tape early and returned it after a few stacks to reset them and got a new one.
Was not the problem but u have to care about this seriously now.
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How full coordination on discord helping you with taking tapes?
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It's quite easy to avoid being condemned. The problem is doing so means you don't have much of a chance to do gens.
The slowdown is like Pig's reverse bear traps, but on all survivors at once without needing to down them first.
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Love how people like you keep calling stuff like that unhealthy but then name tons of things you do which is actually unhealthy.
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We should be thankfull we do not face many Sadakos in the game. Even if she is stronger now, I think she stills not funny to play as (and against).
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Respectfully disagree (at least partially).
People say that it's all about the counterplay, but grabbing a tape and being a decent looper only goes so far. I'm not a god or anything close, but at 3.5K combined hours I have a pretty good idea of what I'm doing (though I do exclusive play solo, so I am on my own every time).
If the Sadako is actually good, is running the iri tape and mother's comb, it's not a question of if, but when (or how often) you're getting condemned over a decent sample of games. Not necessarily mori'd mind you, but at least hitting full condemnation at some point during the match. All that has to happen is for her to tp a few times, catch you in the open with a tape (which can happen regardless of your skill with mother's comb), and you're in trouble. Or if you all spawn together and you come out of the initial minute or so without a tape.
There's plenty of footage of really good players/teams getting absolutely worked over this way.
I'm not exaggerating when I say that prior to her rework, I'd only hit full condemnation once or maybe twice ever, and not once did I get the eyeball.
When testing this out as a Sadako in a small sample, it found almost procedural to get people condemned even when they all immediately grabbed tapes and were pretty good in chase. A few were clearly SWFs, and there we no escapes.
It's worth saying of course that there are a lot of people out there now playing Sadako because of these changes who may not typically play her (or other M1 killers) and subsequently struggle to get hits, but previously players experienced with her will get you eventually.
Against your average solo squad, she's an absolute menace as is. For these folks, who comprise most of the player base, "grab a tape and git gud" is not a useful advice.
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"It's worth saying of course that there are a lot of people out there now playing Sadako because of these changes who may not typically play her"
"Against your average solo squad"
Why do we always say against your average survivor groups but not your average killer? You're average Sadako you face is not a multi thousand hour killer, they're average. Against average Sadakos the counter play is very available and very easy to pull off.
"If the Sadako is actually good, is running the iri tape and mother's comb"
If you're gonna use some really good Sadako, why are you comparing an average survivor group? Use a really good survivor group too or both average.
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The fact that you're implying Hag is useless leans me toward the belief that you're either not very experienced and/or this is a genuine skill issue.
Also, Blight is not an M1 killer.
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Poorly worded, I suppose.
Let me clarify:
Against all but the tip top tier of coordinated squads, a really good Sadako with the proper loadout and intent is going to consistently get people condemned over a decent sample.
Against most players, any non-absolute potato Sadako player with the right loadout and a rough idea of what to do is going to generally dominate via condemnation. She's a pubstomper in most hands at this point.
And if we're concerned about the health of the game, the majority is who we should balance around.
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yeah buddy, you see, that's the very issue. the root of evil.
Sadako's insane kit is just half of the trouble. The other is that it's so braindead easy to use. Sadako's power plays the game for her.
She needs minimal skill to get full value of her power, she needs slightly higher than basic mechanical skill to play M1 killer to be successful and she needs at least a bit of gamesense to somewhat keep track of what survivors are the closest to being condemn.
The amount of value she gets from her power (ability to skip 2/3 of her objective and absurd snowball because of that) is incomparable to the amount of effort killer player has to put into her.
She becomes difficult against not so average survivors and SWFs where all killers begin to struggle, while she just becomes useless and starts to require actual brain to get any value that isn't guaranteed anymore. But that's irrelevant when we're talking about average people.
Her power works extremely passively, requires very little actual interaction with survivors and requires ALL survivors in the team to be very aware of what they're doing with tapes in order not to get condemned even faster than by just ignoring tapes at all.
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"Against all but the tip top tier of coordinated squads, a really good Sadako with the proper loadout and intent is going to consistently get people condemned over a decent sample."
I disagree. The average Sadako isn't playing her that well.
"Against most players, any non-absolute potato Sadako player with the right loadout and a rough idea of what to do is going to generally dominate via condemnation. She's a pubstomper in most hands at this point."
I feel like you're heavily down playing the amount of skill required to do well on Sadako. It takes a lot of macro skill and being very good at your m1 fundamentals to do well with her. She isn't just spamming teleport and free condemns.
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By that logic, Nurse would be the only one who isn't an M1 killer. Everyone else follows the same core mechanics.
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Sadako’s buff was probably an act of goodwill to Nicolas Cage, since he chose to talk about Sadako out of all the horror icons in this game.
There was no hint or mention of a Sadako rework and it just happens to drop with Nicolas Cage. This means that she probably won’t get nerfed for some time.
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Blight is an m1 killer, that is certainly a new one for the records.
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Completely fair. Her current rework is unhealthy for the game as you say. The rework was just horribly shortsighted and the flaws were clear during the PTB but they forced it through anyways.
One of the main issues is how they nerfed her mobility and chase but buffed condemn by making it mapwide. With people doing tapes more now, especially since holding a cursed tape is now the only real counterplay, her TVs are offline a lot more as well. This results in the rework pretty much forcing Onryo players to go all in on condemn instead of having fun with her mobility which used to be possible and the fun part of her kit. A lot of survivors complaints towards Onryo before was when Onryos would slugg and tunnel people to get condemn moris. I have no idea why they thought making condemn even more important for Onryo to remain competitive would be a good idea.
I used to run a high mobility macro build that was pretty great on her but with the nerfs to her mobility it is much less effective and I am struggling with it now. However with the condemn buffs I can make a condemn build and get easy kills, especially if I tunnel people with tapes. Her old kit used to be good at spreading out hits and condemn. Aside from slug builds, condemn was balanced nicely. Survivors could turn off TVs if they wanted to take a risk with a cursed tape, which a good Onryo could exploit. However a good Onryo could also apply condemn pressure on critical gens and make survivors need to grab tapes. Now Onryo just has to teleport every 10 seconds and tunnel one survivor. This is absolutely ridiculous compared to how she used to work before.
As we can see, the rework encourages play that makes her less fun for both sides. They nerfed her mobility and chase while buffing condemn. Survivors don't want to get removed from the game early, especially if they are tunnel and moried. It just isn't fun for most players. Also, condemn doesn't even require much skill and strategy like it used to. Furthermore it has even less counterplay. Unfortunately due to the nerfs this sort of playstyle is ever more necessary than before in order to do well with her. This makes her less fun to play as and also more frustrating to play against. It is bad for the game.
I seriously hope BHVR reconsiders the rework and returns Onryo to her former state with a select few changes like the nerf to Ring Drawing add-on.
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Reverting old Onryo and changing a few add ons will just revert her to her weaker self. Devs probably looked at her Condemn rate and noticed that it was pretty low which led to the idea of mapwide Condemn.
Apart from dedicated Condemn players like OnePumpWillie, most Sadako players would play her like a M1 Killer with a time gated teleport prior to the changes.
There wasn’t even a need for Survivors to interact with the tvs prior to the changes till the point that I could run the Blindness and Oblivious addons and walk around demanifested instead of teleporting.
I suspect her numbers will get tweaked later on but reverting her to her previous form would put her a step back for the casual Killer.
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Childish. Sadako is so easy to counter, I dont get why people have problems with her.
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Well take a tape and do gens. Easy.
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You took the post to the extreme where nobody can take you seriously. If you have some problems with Sadako, say them on more grounded level other than making it sound like Sadako is SS+ Killer and wanting to nerf her old trash version.
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Isn't this what people wanted? I remember seeing multiple forum users on both sides and in the middle agreeing that her condemnation needed to be a larger part of her gameplay because it felt unexistent in her kit. Like a really good idea that didn't get fleshed out properly all the way. Now the pendulum swings, she gets a solid buff by devs making her condemnation a bigger part of her kit and adjusting cooldown, but now it's too much? Make it make sense.
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*noted
OP wants more matches against Wesker and Nurse.
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heavily doubt it.
one of next 1-2 midchapters would most definitely be wasted on sadako changes again because no way devs would look at their spreadsheets, see absurd killrates and not do anything about that.
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I saw her twice since the update. I'd rather face her than 1 hour hostage skull merchant. At least you can make some points et try to win even if your chance of your team being condemned is pretty high if you are solo queue. As someone says in the topic, take a tape and keep it.
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people want many stupid things, Sadako's changes are the best example why BHVR shouldn't always listen to people.
All that is wrong with Sadako is her instakill condemn. That turns her into pubstomping monster, forces unfun uninteractive gameplay and holds the rest of her kit back from being useful because it has to be bogwater to compensate for her ability to kill people without hooking them even once.
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Killers wanted her condemnation to have a bigger impact, as it was practially useless.
Survivors find that taking time to pick up tapes is to much hassle, because reasons. So the complain threads.
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What absurd kill rates? She is mid tier.
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truth its an m1 killer just keep playing and you will get better
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you are pretty much saying nurse is an m1 killer
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That is prior to Sadako's rework that made her condemn way more consistent than it used to be.
You know why she's there on top with other killers with forced secondary objective / overloaded kits that dont take too much skill to use / forced lose-lose macro choices like cleansing or not cleansing? Yeah, exactly, because she's all of these things but pushed to extreme.
Especially with her recent rework.
Stop thinking all lobbies consist out of good players that play this game for life and are not thrown off by high pressure put on them / their team.
Sadako's kit is super easy to use, has a lot of things in it that give her a lot of versatility - stealth, crossmap mobility which all enable her to catch survivors off guard and easily switch targets, she creates a lot of pressure on the entire team and forces them to deal with a secondary objective that has no definitive right choice like sadako apologists suggest because there are a lot of cases where picking up a tape means getting yourself killed even faster.
For survivors to dismantle Sadako's power, all of them have to be really good at looping M1 killers, have really good game awareness and actually focus on doing gens because it's a race against time with Sadako before she forces condemn on 1 person, kills them and turns the game into unwinnable 3v1.
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I think killers like spirit and honestly knight can cheat the core mechanics with their powers. it just depends on what people think "core mechanics" applies to.
like, if I do anything besides mindgame a pallet am I still doing the core mechanics?
If I as trapper put down a trap at the pallet, am I breaking the core mechanics since I don't need to mindgame anything and can ignore what a regular loop on the tile would look like? it's kind of a "it means whatever I limit it to" term...
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If Sadako was as good as Wesker, how comes that i´ve only seen her once in 2 weeks? While it feels like every second match is against Wesker?
Wouldn´t pick rate reflect that supposed power level? Especially if a killer is, as you say, so versatil and easy to use.
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probably because wesker is actually fun to play and can still win against good survivors.
sadako is purely pubstomper meatgrinder which is exactly what is wrong with her and which is why she will be top% killrate despite being C tier.
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Yes, I do agree with this. I think Spirit in particular still qualifies as an M1, just a very strong M1. I could definitely see an argument for Knight and even Plague — like you said, it's more a personal perspective thing that doesn't necessarily have a cut and dry answer.
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spirit doesn't qualify as m1 killer because she doesn't need to rely on her walking speed to consistently catch up to people & shut down loops.
M1 killer is a killer who relies on their walking speed to close the gap between them and survivor in chase to get hits. mainly, this applies in loops.
killers can still have chase powers and qualify as m1 killers like doctor, wraith or singularity.
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Just pick up a tape, they don't build condemn passively anymore
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C-Tier killers aren´t in the top% killrate. Thats why they are called C-Tier killers.
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you don't understand how that works, do you?
i literally dropped killrate stats to you that don't even remotely correlate with supposed tier lists community makes because community looks at killer's potential at peak performance despite not being able to even remotely achieve it.
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you guys recognize that Killrates from September 2022 have NOTHING to say in current DBD with Made for this, For the people/Buckle Up and all the Gen-Regression-Nerfs which hurt M1-Killers the most?
I would like to see these kind of statistics every 6 months to see how Changes (Perks, Basekit) affect the killers.
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sigh
1 year old stats. A year ago we had gen kick meta. None of those stats mean anything currently.
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guess we will never cross paths in the fog. prob for the best.
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Sadako is not a strong killer but if you don't understand how to counter her, and are also unwilling to learn then yes you will lose. The same goes against any killer in the game..except Nurse perhaps which could be so strong it does not matter how good you are sometimes.
Refuse to play how can you have such a loser mentality? You will get nowhere in life thinking like this.
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