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Killers deserve to know how many survivors in a lobby are in a pre-made
Title. That way Killers can at least consent to the torture that is playing against a SWF coordinating on voice comms.
Comments
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Make it a flag system. Red, blue, yellow, and green. SWFs share a flag color, so you can tell if you're going against a 4-man, a 3-man, a 2-man, or 2 individual 2-mans, etc.
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Show survivors their killer. At least this way it will be all of Wesker, Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Legion, Knight, Onryo and skull merchant that will have 1 hour long lobby - not just people that wish to play with their friends.
Horrendous idea. This would be one of those things that would get a shot at killing the game.
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Suggestions that do not greatly encourage lobby shopping would be greatly appreciated.
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But Killers are already causing issues with the matchmaking by leaving when they see a a high prestige player or a flashlight. This would just make it worse.
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After the match sure but not before.
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The matchmaking would be bad no matter what because the way the system measures "skill" is complete nonsense.
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Found the SWF main.
See, the problem with letting survivors see the Killer would make it trivial to counter them. Know you're against a Plague? Bring perks like MFT, Resilience, etc. Doctor? Bring Calm Spirit.
Knowing how many survivors in the lobby are in a premade doesn't give the killer an advantage over the survivor. You have no idea what perks they are running. All it does is allow the Killer to make an informed decision whether it's worth playing against four man SWF bully squads.
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Yeah, because SWFs are miserable to play against and yet BHVR refuses to balance survivors around SWFs and SWF mains insist that survivors should be balanced around solo queue, not SWF despite SWFs being game breaking.
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Behaviour should learn how to balance their game. Premades are ridiculously overpowered. Fix that. Maybe then people would stop caring.
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A suspected SWF is just one possible reason why people choose to leave a lobby, and that absolutely wreaks the matchmaking.
There must be a less destructive way.
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Again, if the developers would actually fix this game's problems such as overpowered premades...lobby dodging wouldn't really be a thing anymore.
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The only advantage SWFs have over solos is communication via an outside app such as Discord. How is BHVR supposed to fix that?
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Right….
- communication; strategy regarding plays and gens; calling out where the killer is
- knowing each other’s perks
- perk stacking
yup, just communication…
and what the devs can do about it? Here’s a simple example: people who are in the same party cannot use the same perks and items. Prevents swfs from bringing multiple adrenalines, mft + hope, unbreakables, 4 toolboxes and so on
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Why should you exactly?
Survivors don't get to know your game name or even your connection quality, so what exactly is your argument besides, "I want to know when i need to try harder"
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the entitlement is off the charts
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This will increase the search time. The listed killers simply will not find players for themselves, even those players who have never even played against these killers, the killers themselves might not have played this killer even once and would rather lose, but the match will not start due to the dodging of these killers
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Playing killer is pure torture these weeks for sure.
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As others have pointed out, this would cause more lobby dodging, which is one of the biggest reasons matchmaking fails currently based on what we know.
I'd also like to point out that SWF doesn't automatically mean you're in for an awful sweaty time. There are plenty of SWFs who goof around, and there are definitely teams of solo players that are very hard to beat. It's a general indicator but it's not a specific one, so a lot of killers would lobby dodge (already a bad thing) and they wouldn't even be gaining that much of a guaranteed benefit from doing so.
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Yes, and if you show swf in pre-game lobby they will always get dodged and never find a game either. Both of these ideas are terrible considering dodging isn't punished (and even if it was punished I'm sure people would still take a 5min penalty over a SM or 4ppl swf)
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They've made it very clear they want players to run what they like, whatever builds, in either role.
You're talking about all the crazy tourney restrictions put on players, where the most efficient & competitive are. Those players make up such a tiny portion of the playerbase, and in most respects they aren't balancing the game with them primarily in mind, mainly the middle grouping of players and a thoughtful glance or two at newbies.
If you are in that mythical high MMR area, and do go against super coordinated four-mans every trial (which I doubt) then no this game is not really balanced with that efficiently in mind. They aren't going to restrict builds because of those players, they just aren't.
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I wonder why why is evasion happening? maybe because the game is out of balance? I would remove from the game noed, hope, make thanatophobia built-in for swf with a 5% penalty for each member of squad, and adrenaline is just an accelerating perk for 3 seconds after repairing the gens. but instead killers nerf the most popular addons and hide the survs with anonymous mode. and want to hide the prestige as if it would make the game better lol.
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There is no alternative really. Any other way of nerfing premades will also hurt solo players, who are anything but overpowered. The developers have their heads stuck in the sand. They might want to stick to “their philosophy” but meanwhile (at high MMR) almost every game is against a “sweaty” premade and the game is bleeding killers. Not many want to play that role anymore. The game needs to be healthy to prosper and overpowered premades are not part of that package. The same way other changes have made it to the game as well, even though they once believed they were fine.
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Because people are tired of going up against a well coordinated group that finish all generators within 5-8 minutes when not playing Nurse. It is very draining to go up against the same meta cheese. It makes for very unbalanced games. What is the point of loading into a match know your chances of winning are slim and you feel powerless simply because premades are overpowered? It just isn’t fun.
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The developers will have to do something. People are tired of playing against sweaty premades. Any other way of nerfing premades would hurt solo players, and solo players are anything but overpowered. If they keep their game going in the direction it is heading not a lot of people will play killer anymore drying up the game.
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I said this, just adding my point of view to solve the problem of matchmaking. because any adequate person understands that voice communication is stronger than the fifth perk, while the survivors already have, in fact, 5 perks in the match (everyone remembers Bill's watch xD)
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This may just be the other side of the same coin, but my issue is with long chases, not fast gens.
I do not have a problem with gens being done in 5-8 minutes, but I absolutely have a problem with 1 chase lasting the same 5-8 minutes. Let them go? Why? So I can give them a break and let someone else "have their fun?" If I do switch to someone else, they'll just have the same busted perks or their team willl step into to bodyblock, blind, pallet save on pick-up, or use some For The People + Buckle Up BS to walk right out the gates (but not before taebagging)
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Cherry picking your games arent gonna make you a better player, and all youre doing is making it even worst for who ever is going to join that lobby next because you just created a backfill
Instead, once you press that "Find a Match" button you can back out, but once you find a game youre in it and theres no backing out. This solves backfills and would have a bit of an effect on stats as they would be more accurate.
As for revealing SWF's that could be shown in the post game. That way you still know why you just got ######### on.
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Here's the thing. If the team realizes your plan of chasing that 1 person until their downed, youre not only giving them the greenlight to slam gens but youre also giving the greenlight to that 1 Survivor youre chasing to use up all the resources on the map which should normally be split across all 4.
Youre best way of going about is dropping chases to occupy as much time as possible to as many Survivors as possible to drain their resources and have an easier time snowballing as the game goes on
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It's not always viable strategy. Most killers cannot pressure map. If survivors know where/how to run you, you are on mercy of RNG.
In presence of Adrenaline, MFT and Resilence leaving people injured is a horrible idea.
Games as a killer are either gen-rushed or stomp survivors. No inbetween.
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So it would be okay if survivors could see which killer they are up against before the match, so they can dodge the killers they hate? I mean if we are okay with making matchmaking even worse, why not.
So there is a valid complaint about lobby dodging, but it doesn't matter cos you have feelings? Thanks for telling me how hard you have it instead of acknowledging what I said.
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Yeah what? The dude whinged about survivors complaining for no reason, when there is a valid reason. Why are you telling me your life story? As though I'm not aware that killers hate SWF. What a shock.
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You're trying to compare killers being able to tell if a match is going to be potentially sweaty/bully tier SWFs with survivors being able to see what killer they are up against and their powers.
It doesnt take a PHD in game design to understand that survivors being able to see what kind of killer they are up against would allow survivors to bring direct counter perks to the killers power.
Got plague / legion? Bring mft,resi and other "while injured " perks.
Got doctor? Bring calm spirit.
Got huntress or trickster? Bring distortion.
Etc etc.
SWFs wouldn't run the risk of getting lobby dodged if they weren't so disgusting to play against, trying to force someone else to endure 50 chainblinds, 20 pallet stuns and 2 minutes of tbagging at gates is just peak survivor main entitlement.
Pattern recognition exists for a reason, and the killer playerbase identifies swfs and high prestige solos as potentially unfun due to horrible experiences with said groups.
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Exactly. Same as seeing lobby is 4man. It doesn't even matter if those 4 can't chase and don't have comms. Exactly the same thing.
I play killer more then swf these days... Also, soloQ is so miserable, that it's the only role I refuse to touch.
And no. Comms are definitely NOT the main reason. Mmr is.
And another thing - don't try to kid anyone in here. You want the info to lobby dodge for very easy soloQ games. Because soloQ is basically free win for every slighly experienced killer (you just have to find that 1 missmatched weak survivor and turn the game to 3v1 for no brain super easy win even if you are much less experienced then the other 3 survs).
This is so not true.
1, killers still have above 50% kill rate
2, Hens's experiment for trappless addonless no camp no tunnel no slug experiment still yealds over 90% escape rate in pubs. This patch. So you are trying to tell me it's impossible to win in high mmr with killers that have/use abilities and addons? Or is it in fact skill issue?
Killers should endure being lobby dodged if they are so disgusting to go against.
see? I can make the same argument and it's just as valid. Because going against C33 ring comp blight on one side and 3-gen locking kick simulator skull merchant on the other side is exactly that. Same for a whole long list of other killers.
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According to external data the kill rate has fallen below 50%, well away from the desired 60%.
We'll see what happens when Behaviour releases data from the past couple of months.
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Horrible idea. Stop trying to push lobby-shopping.
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No, your argument is not "as valid".
you're trying to claim a killer playing with certain add-ons / perks that enable them to win is the same level of "disgusting" as a SWF bringing 4 flashlights, head on , flashbang, etc, just to make the killer's playtime absolutely miserable.
Killer cannot opt out of the match once its loaded to avoid this crap, meanwhile survivors can hookicide if they go up against your so called "disgusting playstyles"
Bottom line is, knowing if the match youre about to play is going to give you flashlight induced migraines is very different from knowing if the match you're about to play is against a little bit of a more compy blight.
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You are completely missing my point. I don't want them adding that feature because it will trash the matchmaking even more.
This is my point. Making matchmaking worse should not be an option. It's the same scenario where killer players want to nerf all survivors, despite solo queue being weak as hell already. Don't fix problems by making the worst aspects of the game even worse.
There are a load of different things you could do to help alleviate the pressure bully squads can apply to a killer. I've even made suggestions as how to implement them. But matchmaking is already horrendous. BHVR should not trash it further.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
bringing up "matchmaking" as a counter argument to killers asking for the most miniscule of ability to tell if they are going to be in actual real physical pain thanks to flashlight induced migraines is quite frankly, ridiculous.
lobby shopping is quite literally survivor induced thanks to bully squads, the fix to that starts with discouraging and punish bully squads by making them take longer to find matches, not force the killers to endure 10-20 minutes of torture.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Bad matchmaking is the primary reason why solo queue sucks as bad as it does. Solo queue is pretty playable if you get 4 decent teammates, even without being able to do callouts. But if you get one or two baby survivors the entire match is screwed.
So why not deal with the problems that bully squads can dish out? I made a thread a while back suggesting that killers should for instance, have basekit blind immunity after being blinded 2 or 3 times within 20 - 30 seconds (I don't remember the exact numbers, but it doesn't really matter for a hypothetical discussion). I made the same suggestion for stuns. I've even suggested that perks like Spirit Fury should be basekit.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Hide Prestige levels for Survivors pre game, and show both their prestige level AND who is partied up with who in the post game screen.
There, this is fair, you can see if you played against a SWF or not, and now nobody has to worry about lobby dodging.
Easy fix that makes everyone happy.
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According to nightlight, average kill rate right now is 52.772369% (weighted average by pickrate from last 28 days) which is more then 50% (the only fair number - but those 53% are close enough). What is your source?
Not just win. You can get chess merchant for a very miserable game for 50+ minutes. If she is spicy and refuses to hook - you can try to bleedout which takes another 30mins (down, pickup, let survivor wiggle off, down again). IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING!
And if flashlights are such a huge problem for you (it's absolutely no problem for me - because basically it's almost always free slowdown for you once you learn to play against it), you can still bring single perk that counters every blind-inducing perk/item/addon survivor can bring.
You are not asking to make games miserable to bully squads. You are asking to make games miserable for SWF. That's so imprecise as telling killers have no counterplay and can win 1340+ times in a row once they get good with it (there's a comp blight main with said continuing win streak). Also - bully squad is today such a broad term as tunneling or gen rushing - ask for a definition from 10 people and you get 11 answers.
Yes. Do this
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claiming "50% rate is the fair number" is borderline survivor bias, thats 6 hooks out of 12, by all intents and purposes thats a stomp match for survivor, 60%+ is much more balanced , 8 hooks out of 12 , a fair match close match for both sides.
Complaining about "chess merchant" is once again, ridiculous, the fault falls more on survivors than the killer if the game draws out for too long, you have 4 people to do 3 gens, stop playing hypersafe and dipping as soon as you catch the faintest whiff of the TR.
Casual SWF's wouldn't be affected by a change like this if bully SWF's from the start of DBD weren't going out of their way to make killer players absolutely miserable. Right now the only reasonable way to opt out of a horrible time is knowing whos SWFing so you can dodge.
A change like this would encourage SWF's to not be a-holes in order for killers to not dodge out of SWF's entirely, hence stopping the toxicity cycle. Long term a simple change like this would improve the health of the game and reduce toxicity.
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On the "killers are winstreaking with 1000s +" comment.
You're forgetting the very crucial element that is DBD matchmaking, putting a top 0.001% MMR killer in a 1400 MMR lobby (Maximum softcap) will always result in the killer winning not because killer is "OP" but because the skill gap is just that huge.
in the end Killer winstreak remarks will always be irrelevant points.
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SWFs aren't game-breaking. You're exaggerating.
The game simply isn't balanced for or around high MMR, and never will be. The suggestion for killers to see which players are SWFs in the lobby would result in the vast majority of killer players dodging SWF lobbies. This would exponentially increase queue times for SWFs, make Solos even more miserable, and also exponentially increase queue times for killers because of a lack of survivor players.
This is as bad a suggestion as the separate game mode, to which someone tried to suggest that the devs should just make it so killers will want to play against swfs (The only way of doing so being to punish people for playing with their friends)
So, punish people for playing with their friends. The last time we had a breakdown of the survivor role, the statistics showed that the majority were solo queue with duos not far behind. 3-mans were far less common than duos, and 4-mans were extremely rare.
Like it or not, Dead by Daylight is a party game and people are going to want to play with their friends.
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it's not even a buff or a nerf, but the survs are already afraid of something new. guys need generator repair simulator xD this would be a challenge, am i ready to go against swf, whether to arm myself with the strongest addons or play quietly. this is a fair offer that will not affect matchmaking in any way
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You'd have to make one extra change in order for that to be true, though.
If you made it so that you could see SWFs in the lobby, and also leaving a lobby once you load in incurs a long timer before you can queue again, that'd be true. Otherwise, killers would just leave the lobby when they see a SWF because the perception is that playing against a SWF is a guaranteed bad time/sweaty match. If killers just left the lobby, that forces the matchmaker to backfill, which results in mismatched games more frequently.
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Well, generally I don't take issue with showing who's playing together. However, seeing how prevalent lobby dodging is already this has to go hand in hand with mechanic to stop lobby shopping.
A player gets one lobby dodge every three hours. (idk, maybe you Q-ed up but in lobby something happens, the doorbell rings, someone interrupts - idk. Bunch of valid reasons that happen every so often.) - After that the usual DC penalties apply to dodging a lobby.
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maybe first we will try this function on ptb? this should have been from the very beginning of the "play with friends" mode
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There's a lot of things can can be debated in the game. But blaming survivors for not being able to break a three gen against the Skunk Merchandiser isn't one of them.
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50% Killrate is NOT 50% winrate, its literally just 2 people dead per game which is equivalent to 6 hooks. its a tie that makes the DESIGNATED power role feel weak , not to mention potentially having 2 people that didn't even get to interact with the killer and just held M1 on gens. *Surely you're smart enough to understand this isn't ideal*
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Again, if you as a team of 4, refuse to stick the gens thats a you problem, the killer is doing its job of preventing you from escaping.
you bring up the "best team in the world 55 minute game" but refuse to acknowledge they played hyper safe and dipped from the gen as soon as they heard the TR. The more concerning stat is that 4 gens popped in 4:43. which means a SWF while just playing normally, would be almost as fast as the best possible solo Q speedrunner.
Killers should be able to know they are up against a SWF in order to dodge matches where nobody actually plays the game.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
That and maybe, Bloodpoints incentives when dealing with SWFs. It would definitely help avoid the whole lobby dodging, if I know I am dealing with a sweaty comp team whom send me to the Game and pre drop every pallet and genrush me in 3-4 minutes flat.
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