Killers need a HUD Update
I'venever thought about it till recently when I heard a discussion of Otzdarva talking about how very little info we get in terms of perk effects in DBD, especially opposing sides. It's hard to tell when someone is using a certain perk until its too late. But thats not the point of this matter. This topic made me think "as killer, when do you know when youre giving survivors mangled? Or exposed?" You just have to pray and guess and honestly, I feel like thats unfair, even as a survivor main.
Killers should be able to know when an effect they enduce on a survivor whether Oblivious or any other effect, in order to gain full value from it. If people running Starstruck knew which survivors were exposed, Starstruck would be used alot more. And I know most will say "well if killers did have this info this will force them to target certain players" which...why would they not? Its stupid not to.
Anyways, I think killers should see in the HUD where they see survivor players when a Survivor has Hemorage, Obliviousness, etc, to not just utilize perks better but really, killers should have the right to see info they shouldve be seeing already.
Comments
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Honestly... yeah.
But it would basically counter survivors trying to stealth.
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Survivors get a hud because were supposed to be working as a team. The killer does not get a hud, it never will.
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Im not saying Killers should see survivors' version of the HUD, I'm saying killers should at least see what killer related effects they applied to whichever survivor on the HUD. I think its possible
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That's fine by me! 3 survivors stealthing on Swamp, for example, is so effing boring. Like.. I'm trying to play the game. Where is everybody? Lol
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You aren't understanding. The only reason survivors get a HUD, is because BHVR wants us to help our teammates.
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Like for instance when I get denied a down via a endurance perk, idd like to know which one.
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A very easy fix would be to put the status effects in the same space the "broken" effect goes in.
The status icons already exist, just let killers know via status icon as to why the survivor they are chasing is faster than normal.
Right now perk feedback for killers is awful , you can't tell if starstruck activated on the person you're chasing, you don't know if they are blind, oblivious , exhausted from bloodecho or fearmonger , etc etc.
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But with enough uproar we can. Survivors deserve to see their teammates actions and killers deserve to see the effects of their perks/add ons
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Yeah. Killers can actually see when a survivor has haste so they at least know if they have Made For This or Hope or anything.
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The only reason survivors got the HUD Icons besides that it should have being in the game since the beginning is because people won't stop complaining about SoloQ being in disadvantage because they were unable to coordinate and that's why they lost so many games. So, now they can see how they lose because their teammates didn't touch a generator all game while still complaining about how BHVR is babying killers.
Taking that in count, I think that asking for something that also should have being in the game since the beginning, visual feedback about status effects like in any other game, is not that much.
What I recommended in the day were literally visual effects, both for status effect affecting survivors and perks affecting generators (i.e. A sea wave effect on top of a generator affected by CoB, black fog effect in front of the eyes of survivors affected by Oblivious, etc.) so both killers and survivors can make informed decisions around the different effects affecting them.
But to be real, even some icons in the HUD along a hook counter (seriously, why I have to still memorize what survivor I have hooked and how many times) would be appreciated at this point. Any QoL improvement for killers would be.
Post edited by Batusalen on7 -
I'm not saying immersed, just stealth.
like in the starstruck example, you got hit by it, so you stealth until the killer leaves. that kind of deal.
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So what you are saying is they added the survivor HUD to bridge the gap between soloQ and SWF which if I remember correctly was over a 10% difference in kill rate between SWFs and SoloQ squads. And the purpose of the killer HUD would be to do what? Bring the 65% kill rate to 70%?
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Give me a detailed explanation as to how a killer getting an icon next to the survivors name indicating they have haste or any other effect would increase kill rates.
If anything it would help standardize the "skill level" between mid mmr and high mmr killers.
High mmr killers can already accurately tell if a survivor has haste due to experience, while lower skill levels struggle to do the same.
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I said what I said, and the purpose of having visual feedback on status effect would be being able to make informed decisions about the effects survivors are affected with. Again, like in any videogame you can think off.
Just imagine if you won't be able to see any affect if a Paladin in WoW used Divine Shield, which makes it immune to all damage for 8 seconds. Or Reyna using Dismiss in Valorant, which does the same for 2 seconds.
"Why I'm not making any damage? Have they used something that makes them invulnerable? I'm lagging? Are they hacking? Should I keep trying to kill them or just try to flee?"
That's why in both cases they have a visual effect so any player looking in their direction can know they are affected by a buff, so you can identify it, know exactly what are affecting them and give you the opportunity to adapt to that situation. That, and it also makes the game more immersive as you can see visually how your abilities affect you and others:
In fact, in WoW you can always see what buffs and debuffs are affecting you, other players or NPCs with icons besides they having visual effects:
What we have in DbD to allow us to even know that our powers and debuffs are affecting the survivors or the gens? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. We can't even know how many times we have hooked a survivor as we don't even have the counter as survivors do. Ironically enough, survivors do receive all this information including the details of the effect the killer applying it don't, like how much corruption The Plague have applied to a survivor.
So, there you have it. The reasons to why we need "a HUD" is so we can adapt to the situation and made informed decisions based on what effects survivors are affected with, because it is absurd that I can not see if the survivor I'm chasing is still affected by that exposed effect I applied to him, because we need to be able to know if our perks are even working correctly or there is something wrong, because it will allow us to be able to differentiate better if someone has a Haste effect or is speed hacking, and because is tiresome to have to rely to memory to even know if it was the Meg that we are chasing the one that is at last hook or is one of the other two Megs in the game. And on top of all that, because it is something that should have being in the game since the beginning, just like the survivors's HUD icons.
Also, I think you don't even know what a "HUD" is. We already have a HUD. Every game have a HUD. What killers need is more info on that HUD.
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What you are asking for is the ability to see endurance status effects so you can avoid making a mistake. Which in turn almost entirely negates the power that those perks have, which is not knowing they have them. Imagine if NoED told the survivors it was active at the start of the match, you would never use the perk again. There is a reason that info is not made available to you.
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Tell me exactly where I said such thing, much so taking in count that Endurance is one of the few status effect that has visual feedback even if it is only when you hit someone that has it.
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Isn't that what you are asking for though? To see peoples status effects like haste and endurance. Which would allow you to completely ignore people who run MFT and Hope in the end game. Being able to see if people are blinded/oblivious would also be extremely powerful on killers like Sadoko and Skull merchant who would be able to turn those into info.
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That doesn't mean that it should be shown all the time, even less when they are not in effect. Seriously, what you are on about?
And yes, they would be able to turn those into info, which is the whole point for it! That killers doesn't have any info to work with at the time to make decisions! Most killers don't even have a crosshair for their powers and have to develop muscle memory for use them correctly, for the fog's sake.
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I am on about. You are asking for a huge buff to killer, during the strongest killer era EVER in dbd.
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Oh yes, the strongest killer era! That's why there is killers just stopping playing the game or playing survivor, and the few that still submits to the pain that is playing against the Hitproof Usain Bolts with Xrays that survivors are right now can only do that with a few killers, as any killer without chasing power would struggle to even get a 2K.
But again, is not asking for a buff, is asking for something that should have being in the game since the beginning. Just like the survivor's HUD icons. Nothing more, nothing less.
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The kill rates massively disagree with your perception of the game.
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You mean the killrates that they released 1 year ago? The ones that showed that killers was just doing fine and was the first time they get to that point in the devs own words? Because 60% killrate means 40% winrates for both sides, as for a killer only a 3K is a win.
So, in any case, we live in the "killer are doing fine for the first time since the game released era" by that logic. Yet again, that was 1 year ago, before survivors got haste for days and 7 endurance perks that grants it for breathing.
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61% killrate before tunneling got easier. Before the kick gen meta was out of control. Before survivor healing was massively nerfed. It is without a question over 65% at this point. Mind you the 61% was for everyone, and they said the solo/SWF kill rate was nearly 10% difference. Meaning soloQ survivors had a 65% death rate, BEFORE it got as bad as it is right now. I would bet money that if you seclude the Solo survivor death rate for the past 2 months, it would be between 65-70%.
The only nerf to killers since the changes were just a few regression perks, and all it did was rearrange which perks killers use. They didn't actually lose any power. The endurance cheese only works in SWFs so the other 90% of games you play you don't even experience it. Save the best for last is still hilariously over powered. You can still camp a 3 gen and never leave it and 4k. You can play bubba camp build and guarantee 3-4k by standing at the hooks. The game has never been easier on you.
If you were smart you would be proposing solutions to bring SWFs down a peg and soloQ survivors up a few. Instead you are just asking for more blanket killer buffs.
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There is so much wrong there I don't even know where to start...
Mind to explain how tunneling has got easier when they implemented a free Endurance and Haste for 10 seconds on unhook?
Do you realize that the kick gen meta was a result of survivors gen rush meta? And that this last one has not being touched nearly enough in all this time and is one of the reasons that M1 killers can do nothing right now, as survivors finish all 5 gens in 5 minutes or less even when you are constantly doing hooks?
Also, did you not know that the healing nerf did absolutely nothing? Because it was going to be the solution to the gen rush meta without touching gen times anymore: Survivors pressure killers by doing gens, killers pressure survivor by hurting them instead of regressing gens with perks. But at the end, because survivors literally review bombed the game in Steam, they only nerfed self heal and it resulted in don't affecting gen times in the slightest and gen regression is dead.
The 61% was an average, so it being an average means that 10% difference between SoloQ and SWF is included. So no, SoloQ don't have a 70% death rate, has a 61% on average like everyone else.
You can bet whatever you want, we don't know right now. But, if you want to bet, I bet you that the killrates for any M1 killer have dropped significantly since survivors started using MFT + Resiliance, Buckle Up + FTP, and all the other things they have right now. Also, the number of players picking killer, even more so since TCM released.
The nerf to
just a fewall regression perks what did is, again, exacerbate the gen rushing problem as now killers don't have any other tool to pressure survivors that isn't slugging, tunneling or 3genning if they don't want to let the gens get done by the time they are going to do their 3º hook.The endurance "cheese" work with anyone as again, the perks grant them just for breathing. You have healed someone as you would do anyways? Here, endurance for you and your friend!
STBFL is one of the most balanced perks right now, making the killer to even have to sacrifice hooks and hits if he wants to maintain his tokens most of the game. And, is also one of the few perks that allow some killers to catch up with MFT survivors.
3gens are only possible if survivors let the killer have those 3gens. A killer can try to defend them since the start, but is survivors choice to let him do so.
A camping Bubba is as easy to beat as just doing gens. Anyway, I don't know how one killer being able to do viable an strategy that of course is not allowed in the Holy Survivor's Rulebook is proof that killers in general are OP, but you do you.
The game being "easier" for killers, or in other word, being more balance right now than before doesn't means that it is totally balanced or that killers are OP.
So, if you would be smart, not biased or really wanted a balanced game, you at least won't mind killers getting something that AGAIN, should have being in the game since the beginning. But, here you are.
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I do think killer should be given an indication when a survivor is Exposed via the killers power or perks. Ghostface and Myers get this already as basekit, and as killer you'll know if you have NOED or Devour Hope active, but for things like Make Your Choice, Dragon's Grip and Starstruck, you get nothing. Maybe make an exception for survivor-induced Exposure like Dramaturgy though. Killer already knows when a survivor is Broken, which in itself doesn't actually help the killer at all? But Exposed would be very helpful.
I'd also like survivor-specific hook states please. They always say this is to avoid tunnelling, but tunnellers don't need a visual hook counter to know who it is they're tunnelling, because they've decided to tunnel that survivor already. Meanwhile us friendly killers who like to 2-hook everyone before completing a sacrifice have to manage each individuals survivors hook states.
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Tunneling with 5 second DS prevented 90% of instances of tunneling. Today if a killer hits the person who is unhooked whether intentionally or accidentally, they tunnel them 100% of the time. Also no perks work in end game anymore to help with this. So it is unquestionably easier. I played survivor before DS got nerfed, tunneling happened once a day, now it happens nearly half of the time.
Gen rushing meta? After the generators take longer to do and BNP got nerfed to a point of them not being worth it? That doesn't make sense. I can play trapper today, the worst killer, sit at a 3 gen and prevent the team from ever finishing one.
The healing nerf was so bad, that people stay injured and run perks that work while injured. You basically get 1 heal a game and if the killer pressures hook heals you just instantly lose. It's pretty normal now to get injured 1 minute in and be injured for the rest of the game.
They said specifically the averages for solo and SWF were 10% apart. Meaning that SWF was somewhere around 56-57% and solo survivor was around 65-66%. So with the increase over the past few months we would see them nearly reach 70% today. I don't want to be mean but, you don't understand how statistics work.
I have played many games with the perks you listed. 9 times out of 10 I get zero value. I don't think MFT ever got me a pallet or window I shouldn't have. FTP and Buckle up are useless in most solo survivor lobbies. From what I have seen in TCM the game is much closer to being a 50/50 and survivors are finding it way more enjoyable. So what you are probably seeing is the survivors moving over to that game.
Eruptions regression is still the same. For most players the change to Pain resonance was actually a buff. Overcharge is still ridiculously overpowered, the skill check needs to go or have a CD. The build with Plaything + Pentimento is so broken the smartest thing to do is never cleanse your totems. But in a solo survivor setting you won't get everyone to do this, so it's just an instant loss. Jolt should also be adjusted based on the size of the map. You shouldn't be able to consistently hit 3-4 gens like you can on maps like the game.
Again, I am well above the MMR cap, I have never see anyone running this build, only streamers. In most of my games the killer auto picks up or is smart enough to hit you away from the downed survivor.
STBFL should not work around hooks, it is way too strong when it comes to camping. It should also not be able to be circumvented by killer powers. Being able to keep stacks very high on killers like Deathslinger and Demo is too much. But again in a SWF setting you would call it out and pressure with the obsession, in solo games you don't have that ability. Deathslinger is my second favorite killer, with enough stacks I can M1 you and then also M2 you before you can make it to anything.
This is wrong, I played against a doctor a few days ago. There was a very strong 3 gen in the corn field, he stood directly in the middle of them from the start of the game till the end. We lost, he had zero hooks at 1 gen. Killers can force a 3 gen from the start.
I have videos of me playing Bubba and securing 4ks by simply camping the hook. You run Deadlock, Corrupt intervention, No way Out, NoED. Get a down in a reasonable amount of time and camp, on average you get a 2-3k whether they try to save or rush gens. There is little they can do, thank god camping is dying at some point soon.
It depends on what balance the developers want, do they want it to be normal for survivors to escape once every 4 matches? Then we struck balance. But if they want you escaping half the time, we are very far from that.
The information you want in the HUD is either something you can simply see yourself or something that breaks the game fundamentally. In both situations it doesn't make sense to add to the game. Because again, THE ONLY REASON survivors got a HUD is beacuse they want it to be a team game. And they found that soloQ survivors try to hide to escape way too much.
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They said specifically the averages for solo and SWF were 10% apart. Meaning that SWF was somewhere around 56-57% and solo survivor was around 65-66%. So with the increase over the past few months we would see them nearly reach 70% today. I don't want to be mean but, you don't understand how statistics work.
You're assuming an equal number of solo and SWF. The devs have also revealed previously that around 15% of survivors are SWF, and a smaller proportion of those are 4-man SWF.
If we try to simplify things a little and presume that 90% of survivors are pure solo and 10% are pure 4-man groups, and ignore any 2/3-man possibilities, then that would mean with a 61% average kill rate, Solo have a kill rate of around 62% and SWF 52%.
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While the scenario you described is possible we won't know unless they release those numbers separately, which I don't think they will. I think a 60% kill rate is pushing it, and I think we are without question sitting at at least a 65% on solo survivor today. I think BHVR is in trouble if they don't address it soon, TCM has been a breath of fresh air for just about anyone who has played it.
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It's all hearsay and anecdotes until we get more up to date figures.
My experience as solo sits around 50-55%, maybe 60% on a bad day.
And to clear something up, a 61% kill rate as an overall average is the ideal spot for the game. It is a fallacy to think that it should be 50% because "50/50 is fair for both sides". It's not, because it's an asymmetrical game, and because no single game has an even number of players, it has five players, not four, and any individual game can have multiple 'winners'.
For example, a 3K game has two winners, one killer and one survivor. While a 2K game (apparently a draw and therefore the ideal average game?) also has 2 winners, both of them survivors, none of them killer. Extrapolate this across all potential outcomes, and consider a 2K a 'draw' for the killer, then the ideal kill ratio has to sit between 50% and 75%. You can't just ignore the 'and 75%' of that, it means it has to be in the middle.
This puts 61% in an ideal place.
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You mean the current 50% Killrate? killer is at its weakest thanks to current survivor meta being unbelievably busted.
Killrate average is only at 50% thanks to sadako and SM having 60%s while everyone else is low 50s high 40s.
Killers deserve a proper hud update to be able to make educated decisions instead of chasing the guy with MFT + 80 seconds OTR endurance.
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When I was recording stats before the recent healing nerfs I was getting 63%. I stopped adding on to that patch of games because it felt like too much had changed. I currently don't have enough games to provide a reliable number.
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You are over reacting or misunderstanding the point of this topic,the purpose here is not about buffing the killers,but just to provide more info on what is happening,to make the game feel more clear and less frustrating and to better understand what is going on. This is already a reality with perks like decisive strike,when a killer gets hit by this perk,it gets notified about it,that is all,nobody is asking to make it clear from the start if a survivor is using a certain perk,but only at the moment of the activation (or even,as an example,to know better when someone is affected by the mangled or exposed status).
Regarding the game being in the strongest killer era ever,even here,I think you misunderstand the meaning behind this affirmation when it gets said by someone,it's true that nowadays,killers have a much more balanced experience compared to the past (infinite loops etc),but that does not mean that is yet a "fine" experience,there are still a lot of problems about this role that need to be adressed (maps being still the biggest issue,followed by the unviabiity of more than half of the characters roster).
And about the kill rates,again,what are you talking about?
The stats you are probably refering to,are outdated by a year,they are completely unreliable in the current state of the game,forget about those.
If you think that I am just someone who is biased to maining one role,know that I play both sides.
I think that solo queue could still do with some more improvements,it just needs a bit more of info,maybe make some more perks basekit,like bond,kindred or windows of opportunity (of course,a smaller version of them,just so that it would not be pointless to run those in a build).
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So if you are saying a killer HUD would have no impact on kill rates. Would you also agree that the survivor HUD overhaul did nothing for survival rates?
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You are losing me here right now,I don't get what you mean.
This is just a topic regarding a better info situation about the perks usages on the killers,it is an "objective" thing that they could do with an improvement right now,and I explained why before.
As a community,we should all be happy and unite when talking about improvements like this.
Leave the killrates out,you do not know what they are currently,just focus on the fact that it can be a nice improvement,just like what happened with the survivors hud update,wich was a needed addition and it can still be improved.
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I just wanted a hook counter for each survivor.
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You can't leave the killrates out. I am losing you because you know I am right. You can't give the killers more info without them becoming stronger. Every single one of you also keeps ignoring the silmple fact of why they added the survivor HUD in the first place. Killers don't have teammates, why would they get a HUD lol.
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Give me a valid argument as to why killers being given basic status effect info would "raise the kill rates"
Basekit bt? Killers can already count to 10, having the status shown on the hud would only help new killers.
OTR? Experienced killers can tell if OTR is in play when the survivor is dead silent after unhook, it would only help new killers.
Haste? Experienced killers can already tell if the survivor has haste due to heavy muscle memory. It would only help new killers understand why survivor x is running faster than him.
The only thing all killers would benefit is knowing which of the million of endurance giving perks the survivors have. Was this endurance from mft? Buckle up? Soul guard? WGLF? Styptic?
Whats the hook counter for killer going to do? If a killer wants to tunnel he just needs to hook meg until death, counter won't assist in tunneling and experienced killers can already keep a mental note of whos on death hook and who isn't.
Bridge the gap when it comes to basic game knowledge between high level and low level players and then bhvr can properly balance the core game.
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You guys are coped out of your mind. Why stop there? Show the killer everyones perks in the lobby ffs.
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No one is asking for that, i asked you to provide a valid argument as to why status effect info and hook counters would increase kill rates.
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I have provided several. One it makes no sense thematically or game play wise. Two it would buff the already power house side of the game. Three it would be abused by killers with rat intentions in mind. Four it's a waste of development time if it's things you should already be able to keep track of.
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1. Only thing you did was complain about "kill rates"
2. Bringing up "thematics" and "gameplay wise" out of nowhere makes no sense.
3. What even is "rat intentions"? Expand and elaborate on this.
4. Same could be said about survivor hud, survivors should also be able to keep track of their hook states , if their teammates are on gens, etc etc. This is a fundamentally invalid argument.
Again, provide us an argument that supports the concept that a killer hud would "increase kill rates"
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Bro, BHVR literally gave a statement of why survivor got a HUD overhaul. I have said it at least 14 times in this thread alone. That on it's own should completely negate any argument you have for a killer HUD. KILLERS DON'T HAVE TEAMMATES.
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I didn't ask for a behavior statement on why survivor hud got updated, i asked you to provide a valid argument as to why killers getting a hud update would increase killrates.
I've asked this of you for 4-5 posts and you keep missing the mark.
*provide a valid argument as to why a killer hud update would increase killrates*
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You might want to get checked for reading comprehension, because I have provided more than plenty. As much as I would like to sit here and keep writing the same sentences over and over and over again. You read the words I wrote but did you really read the words I wrote? I don't think so.
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At very least killers should see hook count of each survivor.
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I see there's no point in trying to get a reasonable argument out of you.
It seems your whole premise is that you want killers to not have basic QOL changes because it doesn't benefit you or survivors in general.
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He obviously has the "Killers are OP" survivor main mentality, that's why I didn't even bother to continue responding to him. Even if BHVR released killrates now and they were at 20%, he would still keep saying that killers are too powerful.
And if the killer kills them is not because they did something wrong, is because obviously BHVR is killer sided and hand holds killers when they should be nerfing them.
That's why he sees a QoL feature for killers that is reasonable to have as an extreme buff that would unbalance and ruin the game for everybody. It's the same old song.
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They added it for soloQ. So players have more information.
There is no reason for killers to not have any info.
Survivors are told when they are affected by hex perk.
Why not show killer when exact perk it was when they get affected by it? So they can play around it next time.
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What kill rates?
Except Sadako and Skully, highest current Kill rate is 56,62%
Nightlight is definitely not optimal, but definitely better than your "trust me bro" source....
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Everyones homework in this thread is to play 10 games of solo survivor. I am not asking you to "trust me bro" the 61% killrate came directly from behavior. You have the same problem as the last dude, you don't read.
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