Killers need a HUD Update
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The 61 killrate came from almost a year ago, a basic look into nightlight tells you killrates have dropped considerably into low 50s high 40s.
Secondly, playing solo Q is irrelevant, you can die 100% of your matches yet your other 3 teammates escape. Your deathrate is 100% yet the killers killrate is only 25%.
Stop trying to project your skill issue as a problem everyone has.
Stop trying to pull the "killrate" statistics when your understanding of basic statistics just doesn't exist.
(You've yet to provide a valid argument as to why a killer hud update would increase killrates)
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Reading the back and forth a while, while I dont agree with everything, Biscuits is correct. Giving Killers a HUD is a pretty huge buff for killers. The more info you have, the better your decision making. That is objectively a fact.
The real question I think is how much of a buff via an improved HUD do you give?
Being able to see any status changes (such as haste from MFT) is more powerful than you think, because it gives you passive information on what survivors are doing, even when out of sight. You dont get a choice on this, you instintively get a feel for survivor actions based on the status changes on the HUD.
Blindness tells you someone jumped in a locker, endurance kills any perk that gives it since the killer will never swing until its gone (OTR even tells the killer when a conspicuous action is done!), exhaustion means you can track people's exhaustion perk so you know who to go for, any haste effect tells you people aren't on gens. You learn a lot about survivor actions based on statuses.
Even if you limit it to just effects the killer applies themselves, Fearmonger suddenly becomes an insane info perk, cause it tells you how many survivors are, and even WHO is on generators.
Batusalen's original idea of applying killer caused statuses' to survivor models to show the killer those effects is reasonable. Like a red strike mark on their heart for exposed, fog around eyes and ears for blind/oblivious, fog around knees and ankles for Hindered, fog coming off the torso for exhaustion. Though I can imagine trying to make a build to make survivors run around looking like Smoke from Mortal Kombat would be pretty funny, it might not look so good in game. xD
The other issue is there are some grey areas, such as causing exhaustion for a time while the survivors exhaustion perk is on CD... you only extended the exhaustion... should you now be made aware of the survivors exhaustion recovery? If not the code now needs to be altered to track killer induced and survivor induced effects.
Overall as Killer I think I would prefer perk slots and add on slots are utilised more for better status effect tracking. Examples include: -
- Starstruck gets its cooldown obviously, but ALSO an exposed indicator in the middle that also shows its countdown.
- Hysteria gets an Oblivious indicator inside it that also counts down.
- This doesnt come for free though... Fearmonger would get buffed by having a blind and exhaust countdown when triggered. That tells you that someone is/left a gen... however at least you don't know who or where.
Post edited by UndeddJester on4 -
The problem with a status HUD is that certain perks would just give away survivor locations.
Fearmonger would tell you whenever someone is on a gen. Starstruck would tell you someone is nearby. Retribution would let you know whenever someone is cleansing your totem.
There should be more feedback about certain effects being activated, but a HUD is too much.
So instead they should just make it more clear that something is active or has activated. Some examples:
- Endurance - if it’s due to a perk, just show the perk icon like how DS does when it stuns you. Or in the corner of the screen like when Dissolution is active.
- Haste - give their feet/legs a yellowish glowy effect to let you know that it’s active
- Hindered - same as haste but make the effect red
- Exposed - give them a smoke effect around their torso or modify their walk/run animations to look scared, similarly to how Madness makes you run differently
- Oblivious - if it weren’t for Retribution, this would be fine to show next to the HUD so you can sneak up on them, but Retribution would make totems too strong. So maybe only show it on the HUD if it’s applied by add ons?
- Exhaustion - shouldn’t be visible to the killer
- Mangled and Haemorrhage - most times it remains until the survivor is healed so it’s already easy to tell when someone is afflicted with them. I guess you could make the scratch on the HUD of an injured person bleed more to make it obvious?
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Perhaps instead of HUD icons on the left side. Killers should have indicators on the right as to which perks or add-ons are in play in the current chase.
Similar to how a survivor can see when another survivor within 4m has We'll Make It or Prove Thyself, because they see the effect show up next to their own perks.
It would show only when the affected survivor is in an active chase. For example if the killer is chasing someone under the effect of Exposed from Dragon's Grip, then a small red diamond with the Dragon's Grip icon will be displayed. When the icon disappears, you know the Exposed has ended. This could apply to perks that inflict Hindered or Blindness, etc. and can be tailored to work on a perk by perk basis so you're not giving some blanket buff with unforseen results.
This wouldn't give unnecessary info for what other survivors are doing out of sight, but it gives helpful feedback that's relevant to your immediate potential actions as per the perks and add-ons you have equipped. Plus it could still offer a counter for survivors, bodyblock so that chase is triggered with two survivors, now the killer can't be sure which survivor is affected.
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IMO, killers should see which effects apply, bot not for what survivor, it would be too much info.
But killers should see hook stages on specific survivors
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On this point, did you know that video games are often cited as a great tool to help combat alzheimers?
Think of the long-term health benefits of not having a visible hook count 🙃🙃🙃🙃
Seriously though, this doesn't bother me personally. I don't really have a hard time tracking hook stages unless I have to survivors who look exactly the same... bloody bunny Fengs...
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Oh right, because that's how statistics work...
Ayrun got to grade 1 as soloQ in hardcore series, so I guess it's not that bad if you are good player.
From all kill rates data by BHVR I remember, there were usually only 1/2 killers on 6O% kill rates and they were usually new killers where survivors didn't know how to handle them. Rest was going all the way to 50%, sometimes lower.
So you basically cherrypick data that fits your narrative...
Nightlight shows data from last month, which is currently 25,392 games. That highly beats your 10 games in validity.
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Yeah and did you see how how he did it? He played for hatch more than half the time. So for most games he didn't even attempt to "win".
You choosing to play a weak killer with weak perks doesn't change the fact that you have the ability to win 3/4s of the time. What do you think the kill rate of a juiced blight or nurse is at the top end? Probably in the 80s or 90s. I don't have a problem with weak killers getting buffed or unused perks getting buffed. I have a problem with people asking for BLANKET killer buffs when there are killers capable of winning 90% of the time.
Nightlight regularly plays against 4 man squads, his data if anything should represent only what you can do as a top tier killer against top tier survivors. If he played against the average solo lobby he would 4k nearly every single lobby.
I said play 10 games, 10 games is all it would take to see that survivor is not easy right now. I play killer for challenges and rituals, so pretty often. I played an endgame doctor build last week, so I had no perks before generators were completed. Well I 4kd them before they even finished the gens. I 4kd on doctor with zero perks. A killer who is considered B tier. The game has literally never been easier on killers. Whenever a challenge calls for me to sacrifice 4 players in one lobby I load up my bubba camp build and complete it on try 1.
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I don't always pay attention to them it would mainly help you to not kill someone you don't want yet if you go for 2 hooking everyone. Sometimes I don't follow if someone uses chances as well. It would not reward tunneling killers as they certainly follow who exactly they hooked.
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During the anniversary the dev's gave us escape and kill totals for year seven and it amounted to a kill rate of 56%. Just for the record, since there's a lot of numbers being thrown out in this thread. this mean's it's gone down from the prior 61%.
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This is a sentiment I agree with I fairness. I have accidently hooked survivors I was trying not to tunnel, thinking they were only on 1st hook. Happens rarely but has happened time to time.
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Old data! The game has changed massively since survivors have adapted to the self healing nerf etc.. People must be playing against babies with a blight to think otherwise.
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It's funny how you keep jumping between topics.
You said average kill rate is over 60%. How did you get that number? Not difficult question.
Nightlight website are not his games, everyone can upload their results. It's basically replacement for dev's data... So it's best statistic we currently have.
Top tier Nurse will have near 100% win rate, we know that from SupaAlf, top tier SWF will also get near 100% win rate. So what's the problem? Both sides have nuclear options, but you want to gatekeep only one side, which is the side you don't play....
Post edited by DaddyMyers_Mori on2 -
I didn't get 61%, BHVR recorded an average of a 61% kill rate and released it for all of us to see. People keep saying "It doesn't matter they released it too long ago". But it's literally the last data they gave us on kill rates.
I am not jumping between topics I am simply responding to the criticism of the killer mains in this thread.
Nightlight is one person. 61% kill rate is literally every single game ever played for the time period that they recorded it for it. We are talking about the difference between hundreds of thousands of recorded games versus 1000. We should be getting new BHVR statistics in September, if they don't chicken out, because they are going to look very ugly. So if they don't release stats know that it's because the kill rate is much worse than I have typed out here.
The problem is, the average player is not a SWF or a top tier nurse player. They are a soloQ survivors who lose nearly 3 out of 4 games. I play plenty of killer, I have reached Iri 1 multiple times. I have adept on a vast majority of the killers. There are changes I would love to make to both sides.
HUD changes for killer not only seems like a complete waste of time, it seems either entirely useless or completely broken. Depending on which information you decide to give the killer. There is a reason they don't let you see hook stages, they don't want to encourage tunneling anymore than it already is.
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I can honestly see this happening.
For example if you have starstruck you should see the exposed logo next to the survivor images to show who’s exposed. then have a timer around the logo to show how long they’re exposed. I wouldn’t mind that at all
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Well, hook stages wouldn't encourage tunneling in first place. It doesn't make any sense why it should. If I want to tunnel, I know who to chase. It would make it easier for players to go for 8 hooks instead, which is good thing.
Main HUD change I want to see is simply perk feedback.
Survivor didn't got down with Endurance effect? Tell ke what perk did it
Survivor is faster than should be in chase? Tell ke what perk did it
That really wouldn't increase kill rates.
Nightlight is a person, but also a website.... Everyone can upload their game data there, it's most correct data we have and it says kill rate is nowhere near as high.
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Then what you are asking for is baseline game changes not just for killer but for survivor too.
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survivors already have this to some extent.
You are told when you get affected by a hex perk and what hex it is, some don't even make sense, for example Undying, where effect is aura reading.
I really wouldn't care if it is implement for more effects on both sides. There is still more and more perks and some perks have similar effect, but different triggers.
I don't think aura reading should be displayed, it loses most of it's value.
For killer effects:
- instadown (exposed)
- survivor movement speed slow
- survivor screaming
- survivor gen speed slow
For survivor effects:
- movement speed boost (used in chase)
- endurance effect (on hit)
- unbreakable effect triggered
Then you have basically same as now, where you have short popup on right screen with perk icon and name.
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I've read this whole discussion and this is coming from a pure survivor main. I rarely ever play killer but let me say this.
Killers having a HUD for info wont improve kill rates. It will only make killers play more smarter with the info they recieve. And with survivors knowing that, survivors will be more cautious with their plays. Adapting to the fact that they have know info and can utilize it fully. This will greatly improve killer players game sense as well as survivors since they actually have to be smart about their plays.
Yes, killer is the easiest it is right now, but literally DBD has so much basic game stuff missing from it, including a HUD for info (on the killer side) imagine if survivors were able to know when they were exposed, or affected by a hex, or add-on? You would say "survivors should know this info. Its a basic right" same for killers.
Really, some of yall just want free wins. Anything thay improves either side is an issue. Yall need to stop having this mindset or both sides will never improve.
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It would depend on what it shows and when.
I think showing hook stages would heavily increase getting one person out of the game.
Showing endurance status effects and the perk isn't a big deal if it's after the hit takes place. But showing endurance status effects while it's active before a hit can be made, would be a lot.
Asking to see survivors movemen speed or perks is kind of a lot though. You can make a huge judgement call at that point to just go for weaker links. I think if this was implemented it would also need to show from the killer side as well. Which means survivors would instantly know if you were running things like NoED or Devour hope.
Showing any type of status effect in the HUD that is applied through things like TVs or SM bots would be insane buffs to those killers. So devs would have to carefully pick and choose status effects that wouldn't give free info.
Things like mangled and hemo after a person is hit is not a big deal, showing exposed is also not that big of a deal. There aren't that many cases of exposed that would be a huge advantage aside from N. Cages perk.
You would have to be careful which status effects would not give the killer instant information on players. It's a lot of work for not that big of a pay off. I would much rather time go towards balancing maps and reworking low tier killers.
Everyone keeps missing the point that the survivor HUD is giving info survivors normally wouldn't get in soloQ but would get in a SWF. A killer does not have teammates. Any information that is available to the killer they have access to.
TLDR: Adding this is a waste of resources, they are either things the killers can track in their head or massively game breaking buffs to killer.
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"TLDR: Adding this is a waste of resources, they are either things the killers can track in their head..."
"I think showing hook stages would heavily increase getting one person out of the game."
If they can track stuff in their head, whats stopping them from tunnelling the survivor they tracked?
And if killers can make a mental note of certain perks and info and all, then why survivors needed the hud update? They can keep track of Gens, perks, etc. I mean, for the past 6 years thats how it worked.
And you dont need Teammates to get info. Literally its info for you. Thats like playing a single player game and going "you dont need to know if this enemy poisoned you. You have no teammates" but its basic game knowledge for us to know. Why we have to literally rely on CHANCE to know if our perk has effect?
Literally, perks are getting nerfed or rated low tier all because theres so little info you can get to even utilize it in the first place. If killers have this info, we can also use it to actually balance perks and stuff due to them acruallt having the ability to utilize it to its fullest.
And this isnt a massive buff to killer. Its literally info. No perks have been buffed or anything. This HUD update just allows killers to play smarter. And if youre genuinely tripping about killers playing smarter, literally saying "nah its better if they have to randomly predict a perk/add ons effect because theyll be strong" I hate to say this, but thats a genuine skill issue in your end.
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Well MMR was added for the low end players. Adding hook stages would drastically increase tunneling at the low end. It makes sense that they wouldn't want that type of game play for people just starting out in the game. If you think a hook stage counter wouldn't increase tunneling, I can't take you seriously. Of course it would increase tunneling.
The survivor HUD is information you normally wouldn't have access to as a solo player, that SWFs can communicate to each other easily. I typed this out above, multiple times. I swear you guys aren't reading anything I type out. You are just assuming my stance and spouting out gibberish.
I don't understand what you are saying about perks. Solo survivors still run information perks like empathy/bond/kindred because the HUD was a laughable addition to the game. Killers are running slow down because it allows for the most mistakes in game play. I still see aura builds from time to time (on killer), but those killers are generally chill and don't care about 4king.
Again it depends on what you would include in the HUD and when it would give you info. All things I typed out above. I don't have a problem with a lot of things added to a killer HUD, but it seems like a waste of development time if you can just keep track of those things in your head.
I will type this out again for the 100th time at this point. The survivor HUD is information you WOULDN'T NORMALLY HAVE ACCESS TO AS A SOLO PLAYER. KILLERS DON'T HAVE TEAMMATES.
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Hook count for killers would not increase tunneling. If one wants tunneling, they already know or keep track of who they want to tunnel, its only one person after all.
Hook count for killer would help with accidental sacrifices and tunnels because killer lost track of 4 survivors.
Also, tunneler dont need to know if they "prey" went to second hook stage after hooking them first time, it will be nice suprise for them if they realize that surv died being hooked second time. Tunnelers will do that regardless of this knowlege, this is definition of tunneling. "Fair" players needs this knowlege to prevent exactly that.
Post edited by Archael on3 -
You dont NEED Teammates to see info about perks YOU have! I never said the killer needs the survivor HUD. I'm saying if killers inflicted Expose or Mangled on a survivor, they should know who they inflicted it to.
My guy youre actively choosing to ignore everything for your own agenda
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Was the Survivor HUD added to bridge the gap between Solo and SWF players? Yes or no.
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I Always wanted this,and visible hook stages
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I was thinking this earlier today actually. I was playing dredge with the add-on "worry stone" where you see the aura of a survivor locking a locker for 6 seconds, but I only saw an aura around twice per game, even tho almost everytime I tp'd the locker was locked. It would be nice to see a perk-like effect duration on the add on picture to know aura reading add ons like that would show.
The same could go for exposed, hindered etc. Like how a survivor can see what other survivors of doing with icons next to their portraits, allow killers to see what effects the survivors are under, next to their portraits
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I mean. Knowing that there is status effect in play would be great. I dont need to know which survivor is hindered, or exposed, but it would be helpful to know if any is, so that i know my abilities have an effect.
I was also thinking, if killers should know which survivor is affected by haste effect. Its theoretically visible for killers since those survs moves faster, but it would be great to be sure. Just like visual terror radius for survs.
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