Survivors should have Unbreakable Basekit...WHEN:
They'res only 2 survivors left and one of them are slugged for the 4k.
Its honestly not fun being slugged for the 4k because really, it's just the Killer being greedy. Theres no reason to do so other than BP and bragging rights, youve already won if you hook the survivor and get a 3k. Basically sitting a survivor out of 4 minutes so you can gain the satisfaction of a 4th kill.
And even as the survivor getting chased, unless your Ayrun or something, youre not lasting 4 minutes and any additional time finding hatch. So youre just #########.
So I think when 1 of the survivors is down when 2 are remaining, they should gain unlimited unbreakable basekit. This will make it to where the killer is forced to hook the survivor if they really want to secure the kill or theyll just keep getting up instead of denying a whole game mechanic, aka hatch, so you can get an extra nearly meaningless kill.
Comments
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I play a lot of Killers and wouldn't mind that. I would just make sure that it doesn't hurt final BP and MMR much.
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We don't need to change game mechanics just because people use them to be a little mean sometimes.
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I don't even mind slugging for the 4k
What I do hate is when the killer slugs for the 4k, doesn't find the last survivor, and then picks up and drops the survivor until they escape and works with them to find the last survivor. Too many people go along with it and still get killed at the end anyways
I have never ratted a teammate out no matter how annoyed I am at them. If two survivors die at like 4-5 gens left and the last two survivors have no option but to hide and hope they are not the first one found, so be it. Not sure why people get salty you stop doing gens when the game is clearly unwinnable
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Eh. I don't know. I'm not the type of person to slug for a 4k, but getting all survivors is what a lot of people consider a "win" so it would feel kind of weird if this was implemented.
It wouldn't effect me either way but I imagine there would be some outrage.
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Give 3rd survivor an ability to self kill if slugged for 15sec, thats it.
Base Unbreakable at that point only prolong the game, it does not benefit survivors.
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In general, I think Survivor's should have a self kill option at around 2 minutes if the game has 3+ survivors, or a shorter time if all the survivor's have been slugged for like a minute or something. At that [point, there's just no point in keeping the game going.
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Agree on the idea that being slugged in a 2 survivor left scenario sucks, but basekit unbreakable doesn't really address that. The killer could still keep you in the game to farm downs, try and hunt the hiding survivor, etc if they really want to.
Better solution is something that speeds up bleed out timers to speed up/suicide if put in that situation as others have mentioned.
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Because if you refuse to do gens and hide all game youre effectively holding the game hostage.
The fact that the hatch mechanic encourages survivors to hide and hold the game hostage for unreasonable amounts of time indicates it needs to be looked at and reworked aswell as the anti afk mechanic needing to trigger way sooner.
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I literally don't care how they do it, i just don't want to be stuck in a match for up to 4 minutes due to a killers ego. Whether that's free unbreak or a suicide button it simply doesn't matter to me
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If they wanted to address bleeding players out, couldn't they add unbreakable that only activates when you've been on the floor for a set amount of time?
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Alot of 2 remaining survivors will hide, waiting for the other to die to get hatch.
Even if hatch is removed, they could just hide until the server end. I know you would demand something more so 2 survivors can not hide.
If the case happen, Im always the one will ask to get attention and killed for the 4th survivor to have chance for hatch. But some killer just slug me to find the 4th survivor. I know you would demand something more so the 4th survivor can not escape.
We need a solution stop 1 side wasting time to the other side (no slugged for 4K on survivor side, and no 2 survivors hide for 1 hours on killer side).
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If survivors can opt out when bleeding out that is just going to encourage more slugs as killers will see an easier way to get a 4 k.
People already "opt out" on hook and people are up in arms about it. It will just be a new way for people to leave a match they don't like.
The best solution is simply if the survivor isn't hooked after 1 minute or a minute and a half, they are able to get up. That's enough time for those ego-maniacs that just have to get a 4 k to look and more than enough time for someone to be stuck laying on the ground.
Of course, at that point the survivor would have to actually use the option to get up or they could just lay there and let the hatch open. Which would also be a great solution to this, have the hatch open in the situation of 1:30 of 1 survivor up and one has been left down. Would really encourage killers to get people on a hook versus lettting 2 out.
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Then they'd have to change the requirements for the Killer Adepts. Plus, if they slug for the 4k, it's not really that big of a deal unless they lose you, which you can wait for crows to tell them where you are. It's only really an issue when they intentionally bleed you out, and even then... eh, go get a snack or something.
As a player of both sides, I don't think trying to go for a 4K and make sure the last survivor doesn't get hatch is "greedy" it's just something some killers choose to do. The idea that a 3K with the last survivor getting the hatch is a "win" is something completely up to the player. I know that's Otz's chosen win conditions when he does his streaks, so many players, especially survivor mains, see that as a "win" but not all killer players would agree with Otz. To them, a 4K is a win, and that's what they want. That's not greedy, it's just their chosen way to play.
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Survivor whack-a-mole? Yes please! BP farm!
This is already a blast when someone brings No Mither. Forcing a built-in version on two players whether they want it or not? Kinda cold, but I'm down.
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If it only works for the last remaining 2 survivors and only if they've been downed after the other two died (if 3 are slugged and 2 die the third one can't pick themself up unless they get picked up and downed again) I don't think it would be a bad idea tbh.
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Its not for the survivors benefit. It's to force the killer to actually hook the person instead of slugging them
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While there are times that slugging can be useful for the killer, they should never leave someone to fully bleed out for 4 minutes. Imo that should be considered griefing since you as the slug have no counters to being slugged other than brining unbreakable or just dying in general (which you have no control over since its a set timer) like its not a big deal to hook someone dead and then play find the hatch. Killers just can't accept that they won't find the hatch every game and that doesn't make you a bad killer at all it's just keeping the game flowing without the need of catering to an ego
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Survivors can stay at gate for 1min59sec then leave
Killers can slug for 3min59sec then hook.
Its not about forcing killer to hook, its about toying helpless survivors to the last sec. Your idea doesnt help the situation at all.
Let the 3rd survivor ability to self kill will force killer to hook the 3rd survivor, because hatch spawn after the 3rd survivor die benefits killer more than hatch spawn instantly for the last survivor by self kill.
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This, I will only slug for the 4k when going for adepts... yes it sucks, but honestly what would you have me do instead?
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If they aren't going to address slugging they should at the very least let survivors bleed out faster on the ground.
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This was the exact reason that blind immunity was added to locker grabs. There were a small number of survivors abusing double locker setups that got blind immunity added for exactly this reason.
I 100% guarantee that 'slugging for the 4k' is way, way more common than double locker bully squads were.
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Yes we do. Another solution would be make hatch spawn when there are 2 survivors left and killer has slugged other for extended time meaning killer risk both survivors escaping when being greedy for 4K.
Killer still has about 80% chance for 4K if he just kills 3rd survivor. Slugging for 4K is really most boring thing in dbd apart from survivors hiding just wasted so much time and should be fixed.
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Yeah just add give up button even I play majority of killer now slugging is just horrible and boring I bothered to play one match of survivor today and spend 4 minutes on ground very fun. SoloQ is enough bad without slugging already.
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That'd be a pass. If the killer wants 4 kills, they'd have to risk hatch if they killed and that only help the survivors. Of course losing track of the downed survivor can also be an issue. Thank goodness for deer stalker at least.
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I don't think Unbreakable Base Kit will fix the slugging issue, but I am in favour of a "concede" option. Especially when three survivors have been slugged and the killer is patrolling all three in the hopes of finding the fourth, this happened to me last night on Lery's against a Ghost Face.
He didn't stalk, he just M1ed everyone and left them slugged then proxied looking for me, the only survivor who wasn't injured. It was only after I got downed (I blew a gen and he knew exactly where to find me, I am terrible at hiding) that he started to hook everyone. Cheesing the game like that is one of the few times where I get legitimately mad at players, I don't mind dying I just mind being cheesed out of a "fair" fight.
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I do enjoy spiting killers who slug for the 4K, especially if they ignore me (even when I go down right next to a hook) to go and pick up the person they slugged first. So I just crawl to the corners of the map and let them waste their time looking for me and/or hatch, sometimes I get lucky and find hatch, but others not so much.
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The difference here is getting 4 kills is an intended design choice and locker blind loops were not. Killers are supposed to kill, and lockers are supposed to be hidden in. Slugging for 4k follows their intended design, locker blind loops did not.
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The killer got the down so he deserves the kill, its as simple as that really.
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Basekit Unbreakable would probably be a bad idea. Better to have an option for survivors to bleed out faster when slugged.
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If Survivors get an end game Unbreakable then Killers should get a Open Gate option even if there's a Gen left... and it would only work if there's 1 Gen left
I hate to put it out like this but I think that would be the fairest way to go about the end game situation
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"Hook him or punish the killer somehow else so i can get the hatch quicker"
How about helping the other survivor?
Another point. If we add a thing to stop killers from delaying the disatvantageous situation of the hatch opening.... Can we stop survivors from delaying the egc by 99ing gates? Im sure you'd be fine with it being implemented fair and properly for both sides.
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Oh that annoying thing to do as well. Killer should see last slugged aura when he kills 3rd survivor so that should get fixed too. Slugging is fine when you know where the last survivor is and see them. But what I don't think is fine killer just greedily wanting 4K and keeping 3rd survivor slugged for 4 minutes while trying to find the last one desberately.
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At the risk of whataboutism, do you think 3 survivors in endgame trying to get a last minute save is greedy as well? I always find it curious to see the word greed thrown around when the killer is trying to secure the 4th kill, especially when adepts/challenges require it (while hatch can rob them of achieving them.)
For the record, I only slug for the 4th for those two reasons, and I know there are plenty of people who do the same. The slug situation is just as boring for the killer too.
Edit: would be neat if all 4k requirements would change to "no survivors leave the exit gates" instead.
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exactly, thats why pink moris are base kit on all killers, there's only one hook state per survivor so killers can use them on first down, and why BHVR has never implemented mechanics that allow players to heal up from the dying state. a killer's managed to down a player once, therefore they deserve to eliminate the player from the game without any further necessary actions.
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Been saying this for awhile... Would solve a LOTTTTTTT of issues...
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I don't mind survivors trying save more often that end up me getting even more kills who would not want that? Anyway can't be compared killer is not bleeding out 4 minutes on the ground but can actively particiate on the gameplay and still win.
Adept or challenge is justified reason to slug for 4K. It's only really small part of community who slug for 4K most just kills 3rd survivor as they don't want to waste time and know how boring it is. Still killer has great chance to 4K even without slugging. I never slug for 4K normally if I don't see last survivor unless the slugged one in my opinion deserves hatch.
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On the other hand, its the hatch that even makes the killer slug for the 4k to begin with. They dont want to risk the final survivor getting it.
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I asked if you found it greedy, not how it can go. My point is that survivors can often have the win, but similarly decide to try to "win harder" and go back for the last one while the killer is forced to camp the hook. It's just a mindfulness observation about when people consider one "greedy" but the other not.
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Some players do drag the game out for the 4K. I have done this myself as killer but if it takes too long I pick up.
These days it's gg at 3K for me unless the players were t bagging etc..
The trouble with unbreakable basekit is if they go down at a pallet or other player is waiting for a blind. Would make the timing too easy. Thats unfair to killer.
Bleed out acceleration should be available with just 2 players though. This should be classed as a hook or it might hurt killer score.
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When there are 2 remaining survivors, if a survivor is downed by the killer / killer's power (not by Plot Twist) then the Entity will spike the slugged survivor after 30 seconds and remove them from the game.
It's quite obnoxious that the killer can get anywhere from 4 to 6 extra minutes (4 mins bleedout + 2 mins if first hook) to search for the last survivor because they don't want to leave it to RNG for the hatch race.
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That, or remove idle crows when there are only 1 or 2 remaining survivors.
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I would say almost 99% of the killers that are slugging cause they need that 4 k for their ego are just camping around the survivor they downed. They look around behind nearby things for scratch marks or the approaching survivor but they don't stray far, so basically your solution is just give the killer what they are wanting.
There is no reason to leave a survivor laying on the ground. (Edit for one reason, they crawl with boil over to a far corner to avoid the hook, that's on them but if they are near a hook there is no reason to leave them). "But I want a 4 k." Okay, well earn it, hunt the last survivor down. That doesn't mean leaving someone else stuck on the floor for 4 minutes because you don't trust your ability to down the last survivor before they find the hatch.
They need to give unbreakable in this situation or they need to allow the hatch to open after say 1:30 of the survivor bleeding out.
I don't like the idea of a "give-up" option for survivors, as this just encourages slugging. Slugging should result in a higher odds of the killer losing. This is still a game, and you have to take into account that 5 people in that lobby are customers. So you want to make it miserable for 4 (slugged) to make happy 1 (the killer who has to slug to get 4 k). Businesses don't survive upsetting a majority of their client base.
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Everyone complains about slugging for 4k but no one comes up with a idea to make it fun and fair for both sides.
Its not fair doing well as a killer and then still missing out one kill because of bad luck with the hatch.
It should bw completly reworked so both have a fair chance and whoever is more skilled, will win.
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Survivors dont need to be rewarded for screwing up. There is a limit for the slug state and its up to the survivors to avoid being detected.
If they are on the ground, they have failed at more than just escaping chase.
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BT, Unbreakable... In 2024, Survivor will have 13 base kit perks.
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Too many people acting like going for a 4K makes you a horrible person.
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The devs never implemented mechanics that allow you to heal from the dying state. They implemented features in the forms of perk, there is a difference. Maybe you should start using them if this happens so frequently and bothers you so much.
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I mean, it's the killer's fault for not hooking me first. Like if you're going to slug for the 4K, then pick up and hook me first instead of wasting time going back to my teammate who was downed first.
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Sure, but get rid of all challenges for 4k and change adept achievement.
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It would also have to be this gets unlocked only when:
2 survivors left
1 in dying state
1 injured/healthy
(Both downed = no unbreakable)
So you don't get situation where Oni/Plague etc snowball, get 3/4 survivors down, but when two survivors die, other two will instantly pick themselves and just make game even longer.
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1) Saying "almost" 99% isn't any less ludicrous than saying 99% or 100%, so you may as well have just committed to it. It has little to nothing to do with ego and more to do with the fact that killing Survivors is literally the Killer's entire objective - they're completing their objective as was given. It's "Kill the Survivors," not "Kill some of them, maybe, idk bro, you should probably just stop 75% of the way there." People seriously need to get off their damn high-horses and stop trying to spin one half of the player-base as defective - be that egomaniacs, socially maladjusted or, as I have seen people say before, actually evil. You're not painting them in a bad light, you're painting yourself in one.
2) Slugging for the 4K makes it easier to achieve the objective. Seems like a good reason to me. And you know full well the hatch can spawn right next to the last Survivor. It has nothing to do with anyone's ability to find them, or crippling self-doubt in said ability - it's RNG.
3) Businesses tend not to thrive too well if they massively piss off either side in their asymmetric multiplayer game. Both sides are needed to function. Resorting to utilitarian sociopathy - making the few incredibly miserable for the sake of the many - will not make the game more successful.
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