Why can TCM have both built in voice chat and show who is in a party whilst DBD can’t?
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many SWFs don't use voice comms... so they had the exact same game information as solo q, even though they are in a SWF.
i would not consider that a swf. I would just consider that soloq with friends.
aura reading is pixel perfect information of where the survivor is, which is way more accurate than what most people are communicating via voice comms. And auras give constantly updated information.
you do not need pixel perfect information in dbd. you only need approximate information to do like 95% dbd plays. another method that some games use for approximate information is pings. I don't think ping works too well in dbd. dbd gameplay just does not fit with pings. there would be too many pings. spamming ping would be too annoying. disrupts the peaceful nature of the game.
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Simple answer: Becouse TCM is a whole lot more balanced for killers. Im talking that if all 3 killers chase one survivor each only one survivor can do something. That's why its a lot more important to communicate, hence they added VC. In DBD it would be busted, imagine SWF each game.
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solo q with friends? Really? IF the defining feature of SWFs is voice comms, then people should just be crystal clear, and just say they want the game to be balanced around voice comms.
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ill give you reasons.
Voice Chat
- right off the bat we have to take notice that dbd and tcm are NOT in anyway the same. just because its the same genre doesn't mean its the same game, look at friday the 13th the game as a huge example. yes their all in the same genre, but they are not the same gameplay wise. dbd hasn't had vc ever and it shouldn't have it now, as it would do more harm than good to the overall health and state of the game. it would make the killer playerbase slowly start deuterating in player count as survivor comms is literally a 4 man swf every game. sometimes some survivors wont even join vc which could make the game turn out worse for survivors, and hell it would just make playing killer completely miserable. there are MANY different ways to help solo survivor gameplay feel improved, but comms would fundamentally break the game and throw off the games balance into a completely different direction and quite possibly would be even more impossible to balance as it would be an on and off because the game would depend on whether or not a survivor is in voice chat.
Show Who Is In a Party
- this one is even worse, as it would further ruin match quality. a part of why the MM feels bad is because of lobby dodging, and lobby dodging happens when the killer looks at a survivors profile/prestige level and decides that "oh that player is most likely really good, no thanks i wanna have easier matches" and leaves the lobby to find a next one. if the killer is able to see which survivors are in a party together, that would effectively make lobby dodging even MORE common as killer players dont like going against SWF. having this in the game would quite literally deuterate match quality and the games quality as a whole, and would make the game feel awful.
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Doesn’t Sonny counter cook by seeing the killer’s auras and sharing that info with his own team (victims) at level 3? I keep seeing that Cook and Sonny are ability rivals
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So the takeaways from this thread are:
- The community is too toxic to handle voice comms
- Solo needs to stay weak because if every game was basically killer vs SWF, killers would leave en mass without serious balancing changes which would he unlikely to come
I think basically what it boils down to is everyone just has to accept that SWF has a massive advantage and everyone else just does the best they can.
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is that not what you want as killer? your post seems to imply that you want killers to be at a stronger level. if you don't want that, than you should not care about losing to a swf. you should be fine taking losses because your average match is not that difficult as killer.
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I want people to actually be transparent with what they want.
1) BHVR said they don't want to balance the game around voice comms
2) Whenever BHVR talks about bridging the gap between solo q and SWF, they're literally talking about advantages that are from voice comms.
3) If people want the game to be balanced around voice comms, they should be transparent and literally say they want the game to be balanced around voice comms. Voice comms aren't a basekit part of SWFs, so people shouldn't use the word "SWF" when they really mean "voice comms".
4) No. I don't think the game should be balanced around voice comms. I think we should get to the "killers can get player experience buffs too" part, as compensation for the survivor HUD , visual terror radius, increased line of sight breakers, and increased forced killer camera yanks.
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Yeah no I don't want to have to sweat every game as killer. Solos are my opportunity to play chill.
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girl i literally said that there are MANY different ways to buff solo Q without it making SWF unbearable. and short answer, yes it will make killers leave and i mean a ton of them too as their the only killer in the trial against a survivor team who would know exactly where the killer is. and yes the community is WAYYYY too toxic to handle vc, have you seen what this community is capable of? my sister literally got called the n word and got told to be something i cant say here, all because she ran noed on trapper.
you cant have everything you want dude, and yes an idea as such would help survivors but it would ruin the game as a whole and would require EVERY single perk in the game to be changed, and quite possibly every killer too.
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The real advantage of SWF in my opinion is with the better teams they have quality control over their teammates. It eliminates the randomness the solos get. Skillful use of comms just makes a good team much better.
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SIr, I play overwatch at gm1 and 3/5 games people have themselves set to not join the voice chat.But that's the difference between Overwatch and DbD.
In Overwatch, both sides are likely to be using the voice chat to equal levels. If, on average, only 1 or 2 people on your team use voice, then likely only 1 or 2 use it on the other team as well. To a synchronous game you can really add whatever type of mechanic you want without impacting the balance because both sides have access to it.
Then when people say “solo queue is terrible do something”-A couple of others have mentioned this, but you are attributing a lot to communication. A SWF knows each other. They can design their builds together and decide whether they want to bring their best gear or not. They know who their best looper is and, generally, will be more willing to sacrifice themselves for each other because they care about the team victory.
In many ways, its not the communication that makes a SWF strong, especially because a group of randoms wouldn't have the level of call out and codes that a top SWF does. That doesn't mean a SWF isn't powerful, or that communication doesn't help, just that its not the main thing.
The thing that makes soloq horrible is that one fourth of your team might just not play. I'm not even adding the possibility of being bad, that's subjective, but actively not playing. AFK, hook suicide, doing archives, etc.
something which crops up daily on this forum, Reddit, Twitter etc- what are they hoping the devs can actually do?Make tunneling the first hooked target harder
Make camping harder (currently planned)
Remove early game hook suicides
Penalize lobby dodging
based on the responses in this thread the only reason to not have it is because of the community. And that’s just kind of sad.I've never played with voice comms, but I imagine it wouldn't be nearly as fun. I don't even like having SWFs on my team because I feel it throws off the nature of the game.
It’s also incredibly naive to just outright say that “this game doesn’t have voice-chat”. Because whilst it does not have official built in voice chat, an awful lot of people are using communication and gaining a massive advantage from it.Define an awful lot. I suspect the majority of games have no survivors on voice comms.
Hiding who is in a party, not having comms whilst letting people have comms, not showing MMR-I think parties should be disclosed post game, but Peanits has given pretty solid answers in the past why that and MMR are hidden.
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If voice comms shouldn’t be implemented because of toxicity, then it’s no different from admitting that DBD has a very toxic community and the devs have not done much in trying to curb toxicity. The problem lies with the community and developers, not the game itself.
How often do devs talk about banning people for rage quitting or dropping expletives in end game chat? You even have people talking about how disconnecting intentionally should be allowed in the official DBD forum when disconnecting on purpose is generally a sign of bad sportsmanship. Saying it’s ok to DC even if the Killer is SM with a gen kick build sets a trend that if disconnecting from A is generally accepted, then disconnecting for B, C, D should be accepted too. Then eventually you will have people DC-ing because they got stuck and went down in chase early.
If voice comms is implemented and people use them to insult or belittle their teammates, then they should just be banned, simple as that. Are there so few players that dropping a banwave on toxic players would inflate queue times drastically? I doubt so. If people don’t want to play with voice comms, just implement the option to disable it, simple as that.
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Not really, no. No one else does that. All they have to do is add a mute button and an option to report for vc abuse.
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This gives off the same energy as the people who say discord is cheating in dbd. When people say four man swf, guess what they are referring to?
As I said in my post OW is technically balanced around VC, but in my gm1 games it's rare for people to participate. An even harsher example is top 10 players both saying nothing and receiving nothing via voice chat. People who want to hard use VC will still just swf in the pre game and people who don't care that much won't.
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I'm going to direct you to my reply to coffeecrashing but are you seriously trying to say vc is relevant to killer? It's both the benefit and detriment of the killer role that it's only one person. Again, when the devs and people are talking about swf it's pretty much always implied they are talking. The first benefit of a swf is the guarantee of a player who is good or trying even, the second is people talking. Even if you add a VC most people in this game(they are terrible) won't use it in the first place and even then won't use it well. The players who would use it well already are in discord, there is no issue adding this feature.
"In Overwatch, both sides are likely to be using the voice chat to equal levels. If, on average, only 1 or 2 people on your team use voice, then likely only 1 or 2 use it on the other team as well. To a synchronous game you can really add whatever type of mechanic you want without impacting the balance because both sides have access to it."
Yeah, no. There are many games that are hard stomps because one team doesn't talk and the other has 4 people calling out.
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Even if you take the other game as exemple, I can see lot of example where people get angry for no reason, insulting the other person for a ######### reason, and when people play for the fun, and not for winning, these person become more angry or toxic
'Yeah, you can deactivate voice chat"
Yes, I love stopping running from the killer for going into my option for deactivate something and never touch it again
Maybe, IF each survivor get a voice line, adding more option where survivor can say a line for the action, like 'can you heal me?" "come here' (even if this one is an emoji action) "the killer is near" or maybe a little funny, when you get hook and the killer is camping, you can scream that "HE S WAITING HERE" and if the other survivor is near you, they can ear you screaming that
Simple example, with some cooldown for avoid the spam voice line
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Show Who Is In a Party
- this one is even worse, as it would further ruin match quality. a part of why the MM feels bad is because of lobby dodging, and lobby dodging happens when the killer looks at a survivors profile/prestige level and decides that "oh that player is most likely really good, no thanks i wanna have easier matches" and leaves the lobby to find a next one. if the killer is able to see which survivors are in a party together, that would effectively make lobby dodging even MORE common as killer players dont like going against SWF. having this in the game would quite literally deuterate match quality and the games quality as a whole, and would make the game feel awful.
Simple solution: Show it in post-game chat only. So, it's "too late" to lobby dodge, but you can still get an info, was it very well coordinated solo players, or SWF using VC
Also, it'll show players statistic, how often they play against solo/SWF
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I'm all for showing SWF in post game.
It'll help dispel a lot of confirmation bias.
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VC is not needed, instead tools like showing what perks your teammates have and basic aura reading at base (kindred, for example.) And showing who is in a premade party would only push for lobby shopping by killers because “I don’t want to face swfs omg they’re going to sweat” and so on. It’d be a horrible feature to add. It works on TCM because both sides are multi player teams, it can not work on DBD.
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If people want the game to be balanced around voice comms, they should just say so. We are allowed to admit voice comms are in the game, and that some people use them to gain extra game advantages.
Wanting to bridge the gap between solo q and SWF is a separate topic, and would include things like matching all the frequent ragequitters with each other, so they aren’t ruining games for the solo q players that actually want to play each game. It feels like the survivor bots made the ragequitting situation worse. It feels like more games have early ragequitters, but since they get replaced by a bot, the remaining survivors are more likely to continue the game, even though they are still likely to lose because of the ragequit. The result is still a whole bunch of games that feel like a waste of time, but now we’re spending more time on these games instead of the survivors giving up so we all can move onto the next game.
Most of my complaints about solo q are the frequent ragequitters and “lone wolf” survivors, that don’t want to be team players, and will actively do things that mess up the team’s survival rate.
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I would really HATE if this came to dbd, played another game once with my wife and i had to show her something, it took 15 secs tops. But for the rest of that mission, a kid followed me around the map and yelled stuff about my mothers private parts.
I have also had other games with it where people played really loud and anoying music.
What could go wrong with a game like dbd thats known for its toxicity, if it had open mic ???
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You realize they'd need to listen to the voice chats that are reported and that's considered moderation, right? That takes time and resources.
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Rainbow Six Siege does that, it actually will auto kick and ban you from the game if you start making a habit of getting spicy on the mic. No votes or mutes needed, it is freaking hilarious when someone on a tear and just gets banished to the shadowrealm cause they just had to spew their slur filled hot take about Clash players.
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I'm going to direct you to my reply to coffeecrashing but are you seriously trying to say vc is relevant to killer? It's both the benefit and detriment of the killer role that it's only one person.You're stating, but also missing, the point.
Adding a feature to a game like DbD inevitably impacts one side over the other. You could have Overwatch with everyone on both teams communicating, or no one communicating, and as long as it remains, generally, the same on both sides you maintain balance.
Yeah, no. There are many games that are hard stomps because one team doesn't talk and the other has 4 people calling out.I'll use your own words here:
SIr, I play overwatch at gm1 and 3/5 games people have themselves set to not join the voice chat.If on, average, the same amount of people on both sides use a feature it is, on average, balanced. Sure, you will have games outside the average, where one team heavily uses chat and the other doesn't that stand out, but balance worries about the general game.
You're the one saying Overwatch games generally don't have people joining voice, that's your claim, not mine. I'm just pointing out that is a synch game that balances out because it will usually, though not always, be roughly the same on both sides.
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TCM is an amazing game..but DBD is toxic enough without voice chat.
SWF and SoloQ needs to be separated in DBD. Period. I don't think BHVR will ever make big changes in this area, because SWF is their bread & butter. Killer doesn't matter. SoloQ doesn't matter. Everyone except SWF suffers. But I have to downvote voice chat. I know in TCM some people only like to play if they're with friends..however I am the opposite, I don't want to talk to anyone..I just wanna chill and play the game. Once in awhile I might pull down the mic and give a, "victim is in left tunnel" or whatever it is...but i'd prefer to just act on my own overall...if I was forced to be in voice chat everytime I played DBD, it'd make me want to play it even less than the current state of the game already does.
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Nope, they wouldn't. You think everytime someone is reported in vc in siege and OW a person actually listens to it? Not at all unless a manual ticket happens to be submitted.
My point is: VC has low impact up to even the top level unless all 5 players are making call outs and many people don't join even at that level, In dbd there will be far less impact because everyone is terrible and people don't really care. People will swf if they want to get value out of VC, not queue up for solo and make hard shot-calls.
"Most of my complaints about solo q are the frequent ragequitters and “lone wolf” survivors, that don’t want to be team players, and will actively do things that mess up the team’s survival rate."
I can't deny something that blatantly disrupts the stats of this game.
At the very least I think basic "dot" pings like in OW should be implemented into the game. Like hit middle mouse button and a dot with your "survivor number" is there.
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