Ultimate solution for balance SWF
Extra % penalty to survivors for cooperative actions:
Repair, sabotage, healing, etc.
Playing with friends is very fun to survivors but stressful for the killers, the excess information counterplay the power of some killers, maybe a extra additional penalty helps to gain time.
(penalty only affects players swf)
Show SWF on the lobby. (optional)
I think the killer deserve to know how many players playing together for design strategies. (In the game The Texas Chainsaw Massacre the killer can know which players playing together and I not read any complain.)
These solutions to make the game more balanced without handicap for soloQ.
Comments
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They already have the tuning knob for balancing solo and SWF, and it's generator repair time. Make it so for each solo survivor in the lobby the generator repair time is reduced by 5 seconds. Increase and reduce numbers as needed but it is an incredibly easy fix to make. There is no reason there should be the difference in power that there is right now. Especially because the developers keep balancing the game around SWFs and making the game more and more miserable for the average player.
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You should change the title on your discussion to
Ultimate solution to kill DBD
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I assume u think SWF is balanced. 🤣
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Now players on soloQ have in-game info about who repairs generators, runs away from the killer etc, it's time to nerf SWF and I think this information should not be available to SWF players.
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SWF is balanced, objectively speaking. A good team of solos will destroy you just as easily as a good 4-man. Part of why solo queue is bad is because of bad teammates.
You can't punish people for playing with their friends. Showing killers who's in a SWF and who's solo would result in excessive lobby dodging, which leads to unbalanced matches, which leads to queue times increasing exponentially, which then leads to swfs quitting, which then leads to longer queue times for killers because not enough survivors.
Texas Chainsaw's number one issue right now is lobby dodging.
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What? I am talking about reduce the time it takes to repair each gen. For example if everyone in the lobby was in a party each gen would take 100 seconds baseline. Where as if each person in the lobby was solo the gens would each take 80 seconds. Each solo survivor in the match would reduce the repair time of the generators.
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However ur answer ignores completely SWF issue, u solution is keep enjoying yourself and keep games a miserable experience on the other side.
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Yes, I think 80 seconds is the correct time to complete a gen.
While toolboxes should only be used to sabotage hooks, the reason is very easy to understand...repairing gens is very easy and fast.
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Killers aren't having a miserable experience solely because of SWF, and it's disingeneous to imply that they are.
You want to punish people for playing with their friends, despite the fact that the majority of SWFs are duos. Duos and Solos account for the vast majority of survivor players, with 3-mans and 4-mans making up the minority.
You cannot punish people for playing with their friends. It is fundamentally unfair.
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Nah man, nerfs based solely on playing with friends is quite frankly dumb.
A more fair approach would be to let killers know if they are up against a SWF or not so they can make the conscious decision of accepting a more "competitive" match or wait a bit longer for a casual match.
The concept of SWF is fine, what isn't fine is the killer being forced to take on a bully squad or a speedrun match.
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I just want to play with friends, and being penalized to play with friends it's a great way to kill dbd and any other games with this feature
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Yes, and for me playing 100% of the matchs in iridescent/swf ranks is not fun either.
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stopped reading after "Extra %"
Never a good idea to punish people for playing with their friends
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So you just want easy people that just look foward for get easy kills?
That sounds pretty bad to hear tbh
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Who said I want easy games?
nice bait.
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That's lobby dodging, which is a whole other can of worms. While all Bully Squads are SWFs, not all SWFs are bully squads.
You're not though. The game uses MMR to determine who you get matched with, but it still tries to prioritise fast matchmaking. It would take an eternity to provide every player with the perfect match.
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Until something is done to balance the effectiveness of camping/tunneling, nothing should be done to further slow down gens. All that does is buff the top tier killers and enable camping/tunneling to be even stronger.
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You assume that the SWF collection is as follows:
-They all use Discord or another application to communicate
-All of them are highly experienced
-planners
-coordinators
-Their goal is to be evil and to make the poor killer very sad
-They use the most powerful perks to get the killer to crack his screen
-Finally they are punished while some only want to play with their friendss
While some want a good team, some enjoy playing with their friends, and some try to take advantage of some difficult perks with their friends.
While your only reason is that you are very bad at dealing with such situations and rely only on the weak survivors, and instead of developing your skills, you blame them because they only play with their friends.
Playing with your friend has become a crime now
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Dodging is fine and choose with who I want to play.
Main killer skull merchant chess (no chase) around 8,500hrs 99% kill rate games, in my streamings I won almost all my games thanks to my skill and intelligence.
By the way the MMR doesn't work or it's a joke bruh
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8,500 hours and you are devotion 5?
It's because skull merchant matches last 5 hours long and you only played 10 matches so far, makes sense
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How would the game know who was in chat? Would players not in chat get less of a penalty?
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This could be resolved by adding in game voice comms and balancing the game as Survivor vs Killer instead of Swf, Killer and Solo Queue IF the devs decide to go in the direction of DBD being a competitive game.
However if they still want to maintain the All in One queue mindset, then SWF and Solo Queue disparity will never be resolved. You cannot balance all 3 sides when one side cannot be nerfed because the reason “You can’t punish people for playing with friends” gets quoted every time someone talks about nerfing SWF.
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It's because skull merchant matches last 5 hours long and you only played 10 matches so far, makes senseOne of the best lines I've ever seen on the forum.
Main killer skull merchant chess (no chase) around 8,500hrs 99% kill rate games, in my streamings I won almost all my games thanks to my skill and intelligence.You had me going for awhile that you were serious there, but you went too far on this statement. Good troll thread attempt.
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I also play on PS5.
Playing on a strategic position three gen may not be fun for some survivors but anyway I look for own my fun and win the games bruh.
I'm going to be honest SWF shouldn't exist in the game but this not commercially healthy for the game for this reason the killer deserves to know who players are on SWF together to devise strategies.
Nerf SWF is correct regardless my opinion.
As for ur answer not is a troll comment I understand that u don't like my way playing style but all play styles are respectable even playing hide from the killer.
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Just like survivors should be able to see a player using bore merchant and avoid a player who plans to do nothing but camp 3 gens and wait.
The most boring thing ever to happen to DBD is skull merchant. They could remove her tomorrow and the health of the game would double.
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Punish people for playing with their friends?
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Punish people for playing killers?
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Yes, Skull Merchant players don't deserve to have fun.
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Why do you play the game then?
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Where are we doing that?
I don't see any de-buffs applied to players for playing Blight.
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Well I want to see who the killer will be against me so I can avoid the snoring merchant
I doubt that this killer requires a single mind cells to master it
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click on your latest stream and saw u using the midwich offering first game lol. You really devoted to the craft. 4d chess gaming
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Ummmm no. It’s a terrible idea to punish players for simply playing with friends.
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These 2 lines dont go with each other.
Beside, I guess your dodging is the reason why I matched against these teams.
Not complaining, these matches were fun.
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Dodging isn't fine. Let's say killers can choose to see who's in a SWF. Now let's say out of 100 killers, 93 of those choose to dodge. That leaves 7 killers for 372 Players. This increases queue times exponentially for SWFs who then move on to other games. This then increases queue times for everyone, and anyone who doesn't want to wait quits which then leaves the game with a significantly lower player count.
I'd be fine with letting killers see who's in a SWF so long as killers can't choose to lobby dodge, and force-closing the application results in a 24 hour matchmaking ban. But you'd never go for that.
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The reason "You can't punish people for playing with friends" gets quoted every time someone talks about nerfing swf is because it's true. You want to penalize people for using an intended feature.
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I love ur pic reflects very well how a chess player corners the other player, was fun my gameplay right? hahahaha
It's so legit to continue as we are now or as for the killer ask to show who playing with friends
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The following only applies on the assumption that BHVR wants to make DBD a competitive game.
My intention is not to penalize friends together but to eliminate the concept of SWF on comms and Solo Queue entirely. If in game VC was implemented, there wouldn’t be a need to balance the game for swf and solo queue, just Survivor with the assumption that people are using the VC.
That way devs just have to balance for Killer vs Survivor with comms. If players choose not to use the in game VC, that is their decision just like choosing to play Killer without perks or add ons. If the Killer player plays under the assumption that every match will have some level of coordination due to ingame VC, devs could buff or nerf Survivor as a whole depending on the Kill rate rather than worry about Solo Queue becoming too weak if Survivor gets a heavy nerf or SWF becoming too strong because of a buff.
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Not possible. Dbd lives of playing with friends. You can't punish playing with friends, even though is it probably one if not the biggest balancing problem in this game.
This would kill dbd.
Swf is the balancing-hole they digged back when they intruduced it and can't fill it up anymore.
The real unbalance shows when you play a mid to low tier killer against a high to very high level swf. You get stomped.
Although you meet them relatively rarely, i will qoute otz here: you only meet a god nurse very rarely. However that doesn't mean it's fine.
The local comp - swf is, despite it's rarity also not fine.
Sadly nurse is easier to nerf that swf is.
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Solo Queue isn't bad because of a lack of communication. Players who don't want to cooperate can't be forced to cooperate. The strength of SWF is not communication, it's reliable teammates.
Voice Chat doesn't bridge the gap between solos and swfs. All it does is create the same divide we already have but between those with comms and those without. Not everyone wants to mic up with randoms.
The gap between swfs and solos specifically refers to the ability to make decisions based on what information you have available. In a swf, you know if your friend is being camped. A solo doesn't know that and might go for the rescue. This is why people want things like basekit kindred. It does nothing to strengthen swf, only hurts one specific playstyle, and is beneficial to solo queue.
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To be fair, basekit kindred with killer's aura is too much. While you already have info to know who's on Gen and who decides to go for unhook. But sure teammates' aura really help to know who is the closest to hook will go for unhook.
Thing is, without Killer's aura, you dont know if killer is camping, 1 survivor would still waste nearly 1 hook stage to go checking the hook and go back to Gen. Swf waste no time on this.
Voice chat would help in this situation, but I really dont want people screaming at me for not follow their orders at all time. Stamp communication like Home Sweet Home would work the best.
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This is a very "stick" suggestion that punishes people for playing SWF. You do not want that, as stated, it kills the game.
I'm still a believer that Solo Q players should get an additonal bloodpoint bonus... a carrot suggestion to encourage players to play Solo instead of SWF... since IMO, SoloQ is how the game is meant to be experienced.... 4 strangers dropped in map by a mysterious entity, who get hunter by a killer, who don't have magical telepathic communication available...
However even that is met with "you're punishing SWFs! You cant do that...". Even though their "punishment" is literally a "hey he got more than me! I don't care he's doing more work, thats not fair!".
However regardless this doesn't matter. The game is balanced with the idea of SWF in mind. The fact solo is harder is a moot point, as the intended way to play is in SWF. I would like to have a little more faith in humanity, where SWF players are not greedy and dumb enough to see a bonus for people playing solo as a punishment vs. SWF... however the push back I got doesn't fill me with faith.
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... What makes you think SoloQ is the baseline, though?
Over the last year it's become pretty clear that it isn't. The blanket increase in gen time being the biggest hint. - But also the HUD and the declared dev goal to bring SoloQ closer to swf. - You don't bring your baseline up to something else. You bring something (in this case SoloQ) up to your baseline. - To be fair though, when they say "swf" I don't think they mean 4-person-squads exclusively. The baseline might actually be two duos.
As for showing who is Q-ing up together; I think it's alright as long as leaving a lobby gets a similar penalty system to DCing. Which it should get anyway, given how the reasons that are given for lobby shopping are just as often just as petty as for people DCing a minute into the match.
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The "Seeing swf in lobby would kill DbD because everyone will dodge" is a blatant lie that im surprised people are still using, as other games are here that let you know if you are against a premade group of teams and they are still healthy.
Swap those numbers you have and they are probably much more close to the truth. Out of 100 killers, 93 of them would probably chose to play the game and 7 would dodge. That would be closer to reality.
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Finally a reasonable comment probably most would decide to play but is the excuse for some main survivors.
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Is it reasonable to kill a game just because you don't like it?
Think rationally and not everyone on your side is sane
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In that case it shouldn't be problem to show killer in lobby. I am sure skull merchant will still find a game for exactly the same reasons
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I witness lobby dodging every day, and I don't even play 20 games a day (and I'm not even in a swf). Killers and survivors alike dodge for any and every reason (from "looks like a swf", to "there's more than two items", "prestige is too high / low") and it's quite naive to think people wouldn't dodge 3&4ppl swf just because they can. There's no penalty and queues are fast enough that lobby shopping wouldn't hinder the dodger's game in any way. Saying it'd kill the game is definitely dramatic, but thinking swfs would only get dodged less than 1/10 times is also a poor estimate. Just take it from the many people asking to see swf in pre-game lobby because "if they don't want to play against 3&4ppl swf they shouldn't have to" or similar lines of thoughts that all mean "let me know so i can dodge".
I'm sure there's a bunch of games where we see swf and it's just fine, but I also have a feeling they probably punish dodging in some way.
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I still think the biggest reason they didn't choose the path of nerfing SWFs is that their system can't even track 100% who's playing with friends, esp. when it comes to crossplay. Because if not, why not just adding that information in form of an icon in the endgame screen for a better understanding and stats (as we all know they LOVE stats). Survs and killers would be suprised how often it's only 2 SWFs or just all solos.
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I didn't say it would kill the game, but you must be new here if you think that most killers would prefer to play against swfs instead of solos. Given the choice, they'd pick uncoordinated solos over coordinated premades.
I'd be fine with killers getting to see who's in a swf in the lobby so long as they couldn't just choose to dodge in favor of what they perceive to be an easier match.
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