Buffing the Pig
The pig has gotten multiple nerfs over the years to the point where it has become a meme about nerfing the Pig over and over again. Adjusting the pig is very difficult in the sense that the slightest change to headtraps times is the difference between a survivor being dead or alive.
- Crouching
The Pig has the ability to crouch and become undetectable, This is nice but you walk so slow that most pigs including me only really use it at the start of the match and then ignore that part of the power for the rest of the match.
(Current Crouching Speed is 3.6 m/s)
- Buffing the Crouch Speed
At the very least make it 3.8 m/s to be the same as Ghost Face, but the Ghostface power allows him to be undetectable while standing up the pig is forced to crouch so I would like the crouch speed to be between 3.8 to 4.2 m/s, this way it isn't so miserable to crouch.
- Ambush
In theory, the ambush is a really cool anti-loop filled with mind games that are really satisfying to land. The issue is the time it the length of the dash isn't long enough. When starting the ambush most survivors will hear the noise indication of the roar and simply just leave the loop. I think it should be a more of risk to leave the loop. Survivors should be rewarded for winning a mind game against a pig ambush attack rather than simply getting a freebee to leave the loop.
(The current Ambush Duration is 2 seconds)
- Buffing the Ambush
The duration of the ambush is now 3 seconds this way if you leave the loop the pig will have a fighting chance to land an ambush attack if you simply try to leave the loop. This will make stealthing and surprise attacks more with it meaning survivors will have to keep their eyes open.
- After Re-evaluation and Info from you guys, This is the current plan to make the ambush not being something you can freely walk away from. and make crouching not as clunky and more worth to stealth around and ambush.
-Increase Ambush
The distance for an ambush with 3 seconds is 20.7 m/s divided by 2 to get 10.35 m/s to get the same amount of distance in two seconds.
-Crouch and Ambush Speed
So I would love 4.0 m/s Crouch speed and Ambush at around 10.35 m/s (this might be too much, who knows can't really test what that speed would feel like)
-Traps are rng and an okay slowdown.
As for traps, it depends on your situation and the decisions of survivors that determine a trap's strength. But I guess that's what I get for having a slowdown that's somewhat based on rng.
Once again this is a suggestion and numbers can be changed. The most difficult thing to balance is the head traps. But like I stated once before head traps should actually be something you fear and not just some little hat that you wear for 1 minute.
The Crouch speed and ambush changes are a must to make the chase power and stealthing worth the time to take. Without the changes, most people don't crouch and rarely use the ambush in matches.
Comments
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I cannot express how much an extra second of duration will the ambush way more useful. It will make sneaking up on survivors way more worth it. Hopefully the extra second would also make it so you can hit survivors who just leave the loop right away instead of play a 50/50.
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The only way Pig could be buffed to have stronger chase potential is if they left the RBTs as they are and nerfed some of the RNG-based add-ons (Crate of Gears + Tampered Timer, in particular,) which would be a welcome change and imo all she needs. She doesn't need to excel at slowdown if she has a well-rounded kit that's simply decent all around.
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I really don't like the change to head traps, not only will the part that makes it activate in egc give you basically a free kill in endgame it also gives way too much slowdown, that's basically the time of 4 extra generator with the the time survivors spend to walk to each box, even more with certain addons, pigs chase should be better In a way that so much slowdown is nowhere needed.
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RBTs are fine as they are now. I personally would buff her Ambush. Make it faster, make it stronger (it can destroy pallets for example).
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Bear traps don't need any buffs. The last rework was a buff already.
They're not designed to be a certain kill, they're slowdown, and incredible slowdown at that. You're forcing survivors to spend a minimum of 144 seconds plus travel time. That's about 2 extra gens.
I'm also mot too keen on a 3 second Ambush. It seems too long to spend lunging. I'd rather Ambush (and Crouch) charged faster so survivors have less time to run away, and make up the distance that way.
Increased movement speed while crouched us a no brainer though. I'd say it should be 4m/s, with the add on increasing it to 4.4m/s.
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I guess we skipped over my extra second of a duration dash and crouching speed and only read the head trap part and also the part at the end that said I only need the dash and crouching part, the head traps are just extra but alright.
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Generally when people do that, then they just focus on the part they don't agree with or find problematic, nobody needs to hear the same sentence that says first part is good 20 times...
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I mean, I literally commented on all parts, so if anything you skipped over the parts of my comment that weren't about the head traps.
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Have you considered that they nerfed Pig because it was needed, a tunneling Pig still has no counter you can't remove your trap and you can't leave the match, it's not optimal way to play Pig but it's still possible to guarantee a kill
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@Seraphor Sorry, I didn't read yours I read the rest and I should have taken the time to @ those specific people. I would agree to a crouch speed and ambush speed increase.
The distance for an ambush with 3 seconds is 20.7 divided by 2 to get 10.35 m/s to get the same amount of distance in two seconds.
So I would love 4.0 m/s Crouch speed and Ambush at 10.35 m/s (this might be too much, who knows can't really test what that speed would feel like)
As for traps, it depends on your situation and the decisions of survivors that determine a trap's strength. But I guess that's what I get for having a slowdown that's somewhat based on rng.
Also, this wasn't part of my post but I forgot to mention that Pig still has the issue of looking down after hitting a survivor when Bhvr tried to add it then removed it but then proceeded to forget the killer who had it in the first place.
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@rvzrvzrvz Any killer can tunnel a survivor, the pig just happens to have two methods to do it, which is to follow an active trap survivor while being crouched or 3 hook them. Any and all killers can do this it isn't unique to Pig specifically. You said it yourself that it's not an optimal way but so is 3 hooking if you're not proficient in it. If you have an issue with following an active trap survivor or regular tunneling then make a forum post about it. Bhvr has already implemented this like having to be out of the chase and being alive for trap timers to continue going. Forcing head pops is mostly a waste of time so there's no point in nerfing traps even further than what they already are.
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95% of the pig "nerfs" were done solely to kill degen strats like afk pig or were random standardization changes. Also absolutely no increasing trap search time unless you nerf gear box and tampered timer or add a mechanic that reduces trap timer after being hooked.
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Traps are okay in the spot they're now. The downside is that they're rng based on an average of 3 searches across each and all survivors. Would I love traps that actually feel like a threat? Yes, I would but I don't wanna mess with a wheel that's already working. So now I really only think the ambush and crouching speed need improvements. To make stealthing more worth your time as the killer and to make her an interesting killer rather than just playing against an M1 killer. Because in the current state on average I will only use the ambush and get a hit once a match. I also really only use crouching stealth for mainly the beginning and short periods like 10 seconds after hooking.
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Only really see the Tampered Timer as being a real problem element on RBT, others are mostly fine.
Unlike Ghost Face who has the ability to instant down, Pig needs her ambush to pull more weight in chase, which it currently doesn't.
Basekit 3.8 m/s crouch movement, buffed to 4.2m/s by John's Medical File would be pretty danned nice...
General crouch speed, ambush charge speeds and/or charge duration improvements would also be crispy... so we can actually use it on more loops. Not sure smart survivors will allow us to get ambushes in though without just W running pallet to pallet...
However I suppose thats the counterplay I guess, and we can always take Enduring.
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more than 10m/s? That's like 250% movementspeed, that's faster than hillbillys chainsaw... That might be a bit too much. You could probably outplay most tiles in the game with it easily, without much thinking or skill, just take pallet control and use that. I don't find this a good idea, I would rather have it be slightly faster and or longer, but not that much faster.
When you try to tunnel with any other killer you are not guaranteed to get a kill after you down them once. Sure it is not a winning strategy, but if you play as pig, down them once, put a trap on them, and then follow them around, there is nothing they can do to prevent this guy from dying, just nothing, and that by itself is problematic, does not really matter that it is not happening to much, but just the possibility.
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@Archol123 I did say it might be a bit too much but the point is that survivors shouldn't be rewarded for just leaving the loop when I go down to crouch and do an ambush. Nor should the killer get the down for free, but the point is to make the ambush strong enough to where people will actually start using it and Survivor will have to make a stronger counterplay than just hold W.
You can still find a hatch to escape with an active trap on. Bhvr can't really do anything to stop people from just crouching following survivors the whole match to get the guaranteed 1k without completely destroying the strength of the trap. If it's that a big of a problem then why doesn't anyone bring it up until I'm asking for slight changes to make the pig's stealth actually capable?
If it's that big of an issue to you make a forum post and suggest how to fix the issue without completely destroying headtraps.
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The easiest way to prevent the just running away is make the build of the power way faster, make her crouch basically instant like ghostfaces or really fast, then you really don't need to do much about the speed or duration of it.
Sure you can still find the hatch, but that would require your teammaes to leave and most likely you will be injured since tunneled of of hook, I don't think there is a realistic chance for the survivor to get hatch, on paper yes but in practise no. I'm not saying it is a huge problem in practise, I was just arguing that it is wrong to say that every killer can do it, since this interaction is a more succesfull way to get the kill despite all the efforts of the survivors, unlike tunneling with other killers.
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@Archol123 I see what you mean, I understand that getting a trap off if the killer specifically follows you to the ends of the earth and never goes after someone else because you have the active head trap that your options are limited. Luckily for the most part pigs only do it, if they think you're a cheater or they see no other way to get a kill, kind of like a last resort type thing just right before the end game, etc.
As for the crouching part you suggested it could work in theory, but then you're suggesting basically ignoring the dash mechanic/function that was designed by the developers to use in Chase and forgetting that it exists. If I really wanted to I could just use Amand's letter and see if they just leave the loop with aura. then use combat straps to stand up pretty quickly. The dash just needs a little extra distance, whether that extra distance is made up in duration or in speed I don't know. But it's called an ambush for a reason it should come out of nowhere. If I sneak up on a survivor which already takes up too much time hence why it should be around 4.0 m/s crouching speed. I actually would use it and feel like I'm not wasting time. Even if I get super close in a spot where I can't be seen the noise gives them just enough time to run and I still don't land it. I think we should encourage to have a better ambush dash so it's actually a unique power that requires survivors to pay attention. Rather than my basic M1 killer mind games that practically any and all killers can do.
At its current state, the dash is usually used at very weak pallet structures and dead ends where the survivor has no choice but to stay. Buffing the distance of the dash would make it a more viable option at some other structures while actually punishing boring hold W counterplay. Then maybe the pig would be more interesting than just an M1 killer lady who puts a little device on your head. I find playing pig already pretty fun because it's a challenge but I think the joy of landing ambushes and or avoiding them for both sides would feel gratifying.
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The developers design is years old from a time where killers had modes, like old doctor, even with combat straps it takes like an entire second to crouch or un-crouch. And to use an ultra rare addon just to make better use of your power seems a bad idea as well. Her dash should be usable regardless of addons, and it is currently not, running the trap addons gives you so much more slowdown that you just cannot catch up to with what the dash provides you with.
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