New Fast Vaults are a complete joke and might as well be removed.

Yeah, experienced it multiple times. Really sad and they are even different from before the recent fix to fast vaults, so this might be their final solution... at least for a while.

Of course they exist. Medium vault is what happens if you stop next to window, press run button and vault (this takes 0.9s and leaves you touching the window from the other side so killer can hit you even after the vault).

If you run directly at the window for about 3-4m distance, you will vault window faster (0.5s) and you should be far enough from window, that killer can't hit you now (and this distance part is the topic of the thread).

Yes. There's a skill element to learning the angle and distance to get fast vs mid vault. The animation is very different for both - I suggest you train this one, as it's one of the biggest skill boost a new player can get in chase (the other ones being camera placement and check spots)

yep i do agree , bad players were really so desperate about their bs hits not connecting and now just look how insanely bad the vaults are , not only you can be hit during the entire 0.5 sec animation also another extra 0.2 seconds after vaulting because your hitbox now stays insanely close to the window and you have to move forward a bit to prevent the hit after fast vaulting like the medium vaults , claps nicely done bad killer mains / new killer players 🙄.

basically right now we went from balanced vault on females but a bit generous for males

to terrible for females and still generous for males , WHAAAAAAAAAAT? OKAY BHVR

dude , really i've been playing this game for over 5 years now and nope fast vaulting was never intended to allow the killer to hit the survivor during the entire 0.5 sec animation , the hitboxes used to be like this: (on green ping btw and not ressilience)

*survivor fast vaults a window*

*survivor reaches 0.455 of the animation* ----their hitbox is now far away enough to prevent any m1 hit from connecting.

*killer swings during that period* ------ their hit doesnt connect and bad players blames I-frames for some reason.

*survivor finishes the vault* -----------succes timing!!! (but right now that timing is 0.8 seconds because you dont gain any distance)

for reference here it is footage of the old vaults:

stop lying dude pls....(that cheryl its me btw - old dh was meta dont judge me XD)

the way vaults are suppose to be is where purple line is. medium vaults are suppose to be where yellow line is. the bug they had in previous update was that male vaults were where orange line is. they needed to move distance a bit back to purple line. I remember someone talking about vaults at one point in a patch note.

it was long time ago where they buffed medium vaults momentum. they called the mechanic momentum. I do not remember which dev talked about that. they buffed medium vaults at one point to be 0.9 instead of 1.1. I believe this was the time around clown's release. In any case, momentum is how far you get propel forward after completing a vault. fast vaults are meant to be max momentum such that when you complete it, you do not get hit by killer m1 swing. medium vaults are medium momentum. you still get hit but your directly next to the window. slow vaults have no momentum. you will be directly next to the window after a slow vault.

I personally do not like these medium and fast vault mechanics because the loops lose symmetry where if you are on counter-clock wise part of loop, like say shack, you can react to medium vault window vault on pallet side because of how slow medium vaults are. not a big fan of vaulting mechanics in the game but I can understand the mechanic for why it was invented. I prefer reading my opponent and winning mind games at every turn. at same time, a lot of m1 killer have too weak of a base-kit to challenge loops and gen speed to hook ratio is not that fair for killer. in that sense, medium vaults are fair. this is just mini-rant on my thoughts on vaulting in the game. this is whole separate discussion on a different topic.

Yeah... have you seen the reaction of the killer there because he should have hit you? That's the reason of why you should be hit if you are still in range.

Also, I'm going to bet that gif is from the time were the game was still P2P and lagging was even more of a problem that it is right now.

You are simply nuts, starting with that being almost 4 meters of jump and almost 5 meters for male (if you pay close attention, the fence over the wall have 16 bars coming from the center of the pillar, and if the wall is 8 meters then 2 bars means 1 meter). Are survivors able to fly now, apart of being olympic runners thanks to haste perks?

Also, besides from the fast vault being significantly faster than a slow or medium vault (0.5 seconds to complete vs 0.9 / 1.5 seconds, respectively) there is no mention anywhere of a "minimum distance" for the vault, much less that it guarantees you enough distance to being out of the reach of the killer.

What the momentum means is that first, you need a minimum distance running to reach the enough momentum to do a fast vault, as not survivor or the killer accelerates to their maximum speed instantly afaik (in fact, lounge attack distance is also affected by momentum, meaning that if I walk for a couple of seconds before doing it it would reach further). That, and on patch 2.5.0 they implemented this:

• Survivor Quality of Life: Survivors now retain their momentum after Vaulting, instead of it being reset to 0 as previously.

And what that means is that you will maintain your speed the moment you finish any of the vaults, so if you have maximum speed when vaulting (AKA fast vault) you would have instantly max speed when you are at the other side, so it will be more easy for you to get out of reach in conjunction with the fast vault only taking 0.5 seconds to complete. Again, it has nothing to do with vaulting distance.

In conclusion, fast vaulting never had anything to do with gaining a lot of distance or making you unable to get hit, but giving you the chance to get away faster without guaranteeing your safety, as it is logical and is how it has to be. Taking this in count, if they add distance to fast vaults for both male and females (for consistency and Trapper reasons) it should look something like this:

1.5 meters of jump made in 0.5 seconds and max speed on finish that also count haste effects so you have more than enough time to get out of there. And if you don't, then maybe you should have go for a pallet as I was literally breathing on your neck. Powerful, but fair, not going flying to the other side of the map through the window because you don't like to get hit.

If you are in my attack range, no it's not. What is unfair and illogical is the contrary.

Yes you are, but you are not conscious of the range the killer has, as someone posted a vid where obviously he was in attack range but he thought he wasn't just because he was away from the window.

Also, how it works, it is your dry ping what is making you not seeing it as the server meant.

Tell me you don't know anything about gaming networking without telling me you doesn't.

The server favors the "PoV" of the killer because that's how any game with a minimum of lag compensation works. It's called "favoring the shooter", as it was something designed mainly for FPS.

What this does is prevent the cases where you would shoot someone during 2 seconds without dealing any damage and the other person would be able to kill you because their info got to the server before your info, even if you started shooting first. That's why unless the difference of time between the two packets getting to the server is abysmal (or in other words, one of the players is lagging like hell) and assuming there isn't a problem with packets getting lost, the server analyze the situation and says "Oh wait, this player shooted the other first" and corrects the situation on both ends. This can also provoke what I call "Corner-turning bullets", where you try to get behind a wall while someone is shooting you and even if you see that you get there you got killed anyway. But, in a FPS this is something that you have to endure knowing that when it is the reverse situation you would be the one favored.

Now, all this is how it works in a dedicated server architecture. But there is also another problem, specially when games were P2P (peer to peer), as in that architecture even if there is a host acting as middle point, every single player (peer) was responsible of receiving, processing and sending their info to the other players (hence, "peer to peer" connection). What do you think would happen if when one player sent to another the info that he was shooting him, that other player had so much lag that the packets just get lost and never receives it? That's right! He would be invincible and not receive any damage, as his client never get the packets that said he was getting hurt.

That's why back in the day one common form of hacking was using a "lag switch", because having lag was an advantage in many cases. And, that is most than probably why the survivor in that gif wasn't getting hit when he should have: Because he was lagging, and his client never received the packets that indicated that he should have being hurt.

So, it is you and the ones that thinks like you who should stop coping, as if the server said that you have being hit then most than probably it's because you have being hit, as in the end it doesn't matter who had the lag in the first place as the server compensates for this. Also, I'm going to bet that is one of the reasons they removed the "new" fast vaults, as the lag compensation wasn't working as intended and survivors got instant immunity the moment they started vaulting.

You don't get an advantage having high ping most of the time in CS nowadays exactly for the reasons I had give you, but keep proving that you don't have any idea of what you are talking about, please.

EDIT - Just for the giggles:

This is total BS and no FPS (or even moba) that is remotely popular/big works this way. Any reasonable game uses server as the sole authority.

You send packets of what you are doung (shooting at direction X) and the server sends info to targeted player "you got hit", because server decides if you were shooting in the air or at the target.

This way if you have bad ping, you suffer all the time. If you have good ping, you have advantage, because you see more correctly where your enemy actually is + your actions get executed quicker - which means you are less likely to target place where there's nobody any more (and if you have perfect ping, you never ever get hit behind the corner - you can only get shot behind the corner if you have bad ping and the info that you are going behind the corner arrives at server too late = server will say you are not behind the corner).

I have no idea where you even came up with your idea of networking. That could indeed work only in p2p games, but they will always suffer from cheaters and bs hits - because without server authority it's super-hard to address cheating (I am not saying there's no cheating with servers, but it's much easier to address them when you have servers)

The first link you posted is exactly what I WAS TALKING ABOUT - with 1 simple caveat - it does not compare to what server sees right now, but instead what server thinks you saw when you were doing action (plus it's also talking about optimistic updates + server being authority that can invalidate you - btw that's also what is being explained in video you included).

Read the link you actually posted.

As for the video - they themselves talk about favoring the shooter until something interesting happens (like using ability and so on) - so in case DBD adopted same thing - you get reliable hits so long as survivor does not vault window or drop pallet or does something like that - and in case he does something like this - it's reverted back to what the client (meaning survivor) did instead of what killer saw + even "favor the shooter" is limited in time so that you can't abuse very high ping.

So again - watch the video you link yourself.

Still - thanks for the link. Apparently things did change from the time I was interested in netcode and server-state is no longer THE king in every single possible situation.

DBD is built as P2P game. And it does not work the way most games are made. Most games send what player is doing and let server decide. DBD sends what player saw that happened. That is the easiest reason why you very simply create cheats of people instantly hooking or escaping from trial or why you can literally still get hit even after you move several steps after you completed vault if killer's ping is exceptionally bad (and no solution from your links would allow THIS BAD interactions).

The reason why you now sometimes don't get hit (even if you see blood) at pallets and get hit instead was inclusion of validation servers. That was good step forward, but it very much shows that validation servers are afterthought and that things that come to server are still "what player sees" instead of "what player does" (+ letting server decide what to do with it).

Also "favor the shooter" is absolutely horrendous strategy in case of DBD. Because lags favor "shooter" 2 times. The game is about reaction so if killer has bad ping, survivor has less time to react to killer (because he sees what he does later) AND get hit even if he gets to safety. All those FPS tactics and networking libraries were designed to minimize feeling of unfairness as much as humanly possible. That means you should absolutely not reward someone (twice) for having bad ping.

So you saying players had free escapes in case of P2P makes absolutely no sense (as pure P2P means killers sees hit so it's hit even if everyone else involved in game see that survivor 50m away from that spot). In those time lagswitch meant you could hit anyone any time just by disabling your net for a few seconds (but short enough to not get DC)

There's a difference between validation server and dedicated server. Dedicated server is something that takes input and calculates state of the world and sends authoritative state to all the clients in game. Validation servers does less - it just checks timestamps and selected actions (check drop-pallet timestamp vs hit timestamp) - when comparing those, send authoritative action to all clients.

Validation servers are much simpler and has much less control over the game - even though they DO have some control.

As for your P2P - you are right that killer was server ergo 0 ping. But in case of "favor the shooter" (which is same as "favor the server truth") - what you saw from killer's perspective was ALWAYS desired behavior (because 0 lag). You could see some funky things from survivor's perspective, but killer hitting on window and not getting hit was intended interaction (minus specific bug - but now we are not talking about networking).

In case of dropping pallet - then you could be right. Because in this case "favor the shooter" is survivor dropping said pallet. But that absolutely does nothing when survivor is vaulting the window or when killer is trying to hit survivor (and it does not matter if he tries to hit him next to pallet or not). Also it's basically counterproductive for survivor too - because what does it matter that you get stun, if you get hit as well (apart from having one less pallet)?

Here you have the conclusion to that problem:

bro ion care that i preserve my momentum nor im reading allat i just need my fast vaults to give me some distance away the window like they did prior to this patch💀

You are wrong, as like I said, there is no reason to have a validation server if the clients are the ones processing all the data (ergo, the clients are doing the "validation"). I think you are confused with a "matchmaking server", needed even in a P2P infrastructure and like it's name make clear, it's sole reason of existence is allow matchmaking people in the same lobby. It doesn't does any kind of validation, it doesn't have any more authority than joining people to play together.

DbD uses a dedicated server infrastructure, and the client has almost not authority over the game these days (reason of no seeing as much hacking as before). But if you read the contrary anywhere, would be nice if you posted the source.

You keep saying "predict/guess", but you also say Nemesis's whip is fair when the time difference of charging and attack time are centiseconds and people dodge both successfully. Logic not found.

They tried to fix a bug, introduced more bugs (I literally hit a window having an Ash at 1 meter that was just started to do a vault. He become invincible the moment he started to vault) but that doesn't matters, they reverted it because of killers, not because they were even more bugged than before.

But whatever you say, dude.