Thanks for the vaults

They changed fast vaults so that survivors would get more distance. However, this also caused a number of seperate issues like survivors getting i-frames during the animation, vaults also being faster (more distance in the same amount of time) and for some reason male survivors would get more distance than female survivors.

Now they reverted these changes (presumable to fix these issues and then imlement it again) but male survivors still vault further than female survivors.

On the topic: It feels good being able to hit survivors at vaults again. I cannot press this enough but if you get hit after the animation, then that is a latency issue. You can stand still after a fast vault and the killer should not be able to hit you.

If that was the case then you'd never see a killer hitting the vault instead of the survivor before they move out of the way. Which was a common occurence even before the vault changes.

I couldn't care less what you think of me but it seems I made an impression. Maybe consider both sides of an argument before you jump the gun. It's likely they will bring back the further distances at a later point and as long as they fix the issues they initially caused I'm fine with that. I'm just not content with survivors getting i-frames during vaults and the animations not working correctly.

Do you not know how valocity works? For fast vaults the survivor moves in uniform movement. Meaning: v = s / t. Or in words: velocity equals distance divided by time.

The changed fast vaults gave you more distance, while the time stayed the same as before. So that means, that the velocity was actually increased in turn. This has nothing to do with Resilience. Even the animtions weren't working properly for crying out loud.

The fact that the bugs are still there is more than unfortunate, agreed. I don't even understand how they managed to mess that up, when it came with the changed vaults. But I will never be fine with survivors getting completely unhittable during fast vaults. Vaults are not solid walls. As long as you are still on the same side or even slightly behind the window, the killer should be able to hit you. Of course that should not happen after the fast vault but as I said that is a latency thing. It's the same as Wesker grabbing you behind a vault and slamming you into it. It has nothing to do with the hitbox or distance, just latency. And that can't be fixed quite so easy.

Something else that proves my point is the posts on this forum. Before vaults got changed, you'd never see anyone mention that they didn't get enough distance after a fast vault. Because that wasn't actually the issue. You had people complaining about latency when they got hit behind windows but not about the distance.

I really don't think survivors had any sort of i-frames during the vault (projectile attacks registered perfectly fine), it's just that as Xernoton has pointed out, the vault speed had been inadvertently increased due to the fact that they increased the distance made during the interaction without altering the interaction time.

I do think the new vaults (especially on male characters, who vaulted further and therefore also faster) had been a bit ridiculous, but that they went and just reverted to the old state is disappointing. As people have been saying, there could be a middle ground, such as adjusting the interaction time to have the survivor reach the new distance at a more reasonable speed. What's of note here I think is that the first half or so of the vaulting animation seemingly is faster than the latter part of it. If they were to make the survivor travel at a more even pace throughout the vault, an increase in vaulting speed likely wouldn't even be as ridiculous, as the survivor wouldn't just be sucked through the window.

Ultimately this all comes down to hit registration though, and I think even the old vaults would be perfectly fine and fair in a 0-latency environment. The fact however that any and all latency present in either client's connection to the server favours the killer on hits outright makes vaults a little too susceptible to laghits. Medium vaults especially. The "true" solution would be to have server-sided hit registration that calculates hits from its neutral perspective and doesn't favour the killer.

Wow. I didn't notice. That's definitely not right and hopefully gets fixed as soon as possible. I'm in awe at how something like this can even happen.

To make it clear, this was not what I was referring to. But before they messed with vaults you wouldn't hit a survivor after their fast vault (latency aside).

I won't argue against any of that but that is completely seperate issue. This is something that I hope the devs will improve (as much as possible) but it has little to do with the change to fast vaults.

I'm sorry, but you gotta bring better fake hits than that. That was basic latency, and should normally be a hit. I'm worried about being halfway to the ground from the 2nd story and getting up somehow. Heck, Otz and other content creators have better(more extreme Bullschenanigans) lag hits in their weekly compilations.

you think they don't exist?

I feel like blaming wonky animation for this, because he hit you at the first moment he swung the mace, I really wish we had killer's PoV.

Huntress Hatchess are less to screw because their hitbox are big and they remain more during the animation of the vault, this is just a theory I have, because I missed shreds, slinger shots, but never punishments, whips or hatchets, and my guess is because their hitbox is more constant compared to a shot that is almost immadiate and a shred that is not as fast as a slinger shot but once demo hits a wall the whole hitbox stops, and all my hits were against people with ~40ms

Right, again, I don't doubt that the hitbox of the survivor may have gotten a bit whacky with the changed vaults and that it interacted in weird ways with some abilities and aim dressing, but I don't believe there had been i-frames. It's a moot point now anyway because they have reverted those changes, but still, it would have been ridiculous for BHVR to introduce invincibility to an essential chase interaction, so I would like to clarify that they didn't.

Exactly, people in these instances tend to complain about pallet stun validation not working... but the killer hadn't even been stunned. It is funny (sad) that the counter to stun validation is to have even worse ping, such that you hit the survivor long before you are close to the pallet that they on their screen are already pulling. Latency cheaters rejoice.

Moving hit registration authority to the server wouldn't be without issues - latency always causes issues in networked multiplayer games, that's just reality -, but it would make it so that both roles suffer from these issues equally, rather than only one role benefitting and the other exclusively suffering as it is currently. It would also make everyone's own latency be to their own detriment, rather than rewarding one role for it, thereby also removing the cheat and exploit potential that comes with artificially inducing latency.

That said, one suspicion I have as to why BHVR is not willing to have servers do hit calculations is that it costs computation cycles and power, which they may well not have to spare and would have to pay more for.

@RpTheHotrod

Apologies, I missed your reply initially. Well, it's fair enough if you personally can't be bothered to prove the claim, and I'm not saying I know for a fact there hadn't been i-frames, I just hadn't seen anything to confirm without a doubt the existence of i-frames, and again, hatchets hits still registering at any point of a vault to me had if anything been proof of the opposite. But I don't care so much ultimately, it was rolled back and that it should have been regardless.