General Discussions
General Discussions
What happened to camping solution?
Comments
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You haven't actually provided any details yourself. You just keep saying "you are wrong". obviously the things i propose would require tons of testing. That is what PTB is for, this game also can have patches. Its not like they change it, and then never change anything ever again.
What i'm saying is, the game would be in a much healthier state for ALL players, survivors, killers, new players, veteran players and everyone in between, if the game was balanced around going for lots of chases and getting lots of hooks, instead of just rushing for a kill as fast as possible.
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I've explained why I don't think the ideas, based on the information you've given (see: very little), would work. It's incredibly disingenuous to reduce my responses to, "You're wrong." I can't have a conversation with myself, which is what I may as well have been doing with the amount of information you've volunteered and your placeholder responses.
You: Here's my vague idea to balance the game, and here's a small amount of specific information.
Me: Based on the specific information you've given, I don't see it working because...
You: Well, we could just [literally re-balance the entire game] to make it work.
I can't really do much with that, I'm afraid, but good luck with it. Knowing no matter what I say will be reduced to, "You're wrong," I have no real desire to continue this conversation.
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Its because he play nurse, he is not fun.
Dude its an game, the fun and luck factor are important, its not competitive
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How about we just have the superbowl team that loses, play a guess the number game, and if they guess the number right, they automatically win regardless of how badly they played.You mean like a hail merry or a 60+ yard field goal?
The hail merry is actually a great example. The losing team gets to chuck the ball down the field in an extremely low chance play that's really just random chance. No coach would try such a play unless it was desperation (end of the game) or low risk (end of a half). It's not a testament of skill, its just a jump ball that gives the losing team a chance to win the game at the very end.
But a game of football would be a lot more boring if that didn't exist.
4% is actually really similar. It only has any meaning if its been a competitive game (if you escape the hook and there are still 3 gens to do it doesn't really mean anything) and it gives a chance for the losing side to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
I actually think American football shows why RNG makes games fun and entertaining.
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That's not random chance, the players use their skill to do it or the other team fails to defend against it. That doesn't mean it is "RNG"
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Sure it is. Hail Marys are basically pure random chance. Some players have a little better chance at it then others, but its a jump ball, sometimes you get it, usually you don't.
Let's take something else from football, fumbles. A running back will fumble on average once every 120 times they touch the ball. Maybe that fumble occurs in the Superbowl, maybe it occurs in an average game.
And football coaches constantly talk about percentiles (how likely we were to succeed). Even if you put the percentiles in your favor, sometimes you still lose.
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That's not how random chance works. The players are still acting out the game, just because it has a "low chance" of working, doesn't make it "RNG". Your example is flawed and only works if they used like madden or something to simulate a match against the 2 teams, setup one to do a hail mary, and have the cpu play it out, then if it works they give the team the points.
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Bhvr kills strats because "can anyone think about the poor solo queue players" > killers go back to the only strat viable vs decent/good survivors
WhY KiLlErS OnLy TuNnEl?
granted facecamp is a bubba meme usually but legit I do wonder what some survivor players are thinking that removing tools and strats will end focusing or make killer players play different if they want to win..
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We prob won't see this till Xmas or New Year's lol
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Bro this is dope actually and I would love to see either option implemented, maybe the second one more so. I knew you'd have a awesome take on it, been lurking your comments when they appear for a while now lol. Thanks for the explanation!!!
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Sorry, but its a very dumb mechanic. It would be the same as the killer having 2% per chance when kicking a gen to remove 50% of its progress. Like, the chance is small, but when it happens, it just spoils all the progress one side have.
I can understand the hatred towards this mechanic, as it can feel very unfair to one side of the game, specially as it can get quite high chance if you have 4 survivors trying 3x to escape from the hook.
DBD can be very fun without these stuff.
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Nah
its not like killer players can't play survivor as well and enjoy the mechanic themselves
its important for the balance of the game
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That guy is beyond survivor biased, it's useless to converse with him.
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😲 Oh It's finally coming? or its more like coming soon ™?
The basekit mori idea would be cool to also be implemented. It was mentioned and still didn't happen either. It could be a good excuse and incentive to make new mori animations..
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Eh, there is a simple solution. If every single survivor that is camped/tunnel and all their teammates report the killer that does it for say "griefing" that killer's account will end up being reported so often that the devs probably take notice and probably give a 24 hour timeout to start. It continues, might be a little longer. Again this would take the entire community to get together and start doing but it would certainly end the camp and tunnel days of the game and then nothing has to change from a development side.
I think if camping and tunneling was the exception not the rule, people would be less bothered by it. However, at this point in the game it is shocking when there isn't a tunnel or a camp. Hell, I saw a Xeno face camp to preserve a 3 k because the xeno can apparently fully block the hook. It is becoming a problem.
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In order for that to work, camping and tunnelling would have to be against the rules, which iirc they are not. Proxy camping and tunnelling definitely aren't, and I'm pretty sure facecamping isn't either.
As for simple solutions, I like the one we were told is gonna be tested, personally! We'll have to see how it works out, of course, but it has promise.
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I don't think the anti-hook camping mechanic is primarily for more seasoned players. I think it's for more casual players, who play against weak, inexperienced killer players. These kinds of killers almost never leave the hook, regardless if it's one gen or five gens. I really noticed it when my MMR dropped.
I have tried to get friends into the game, but when they come play they encounter what I described above. They play two or three matches and stop, as playing against killers like that isn't fun or scary. It's just obnoxious. This new mechanic will not help more seasoned players (killer can just proxy camp instead), but it will make the experience better for newer players, and hopefully that means more of them will stick around.
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Yeah, beginning killers will be happy to see background running mechanics pulling survivors off the hook at random (no)
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When "at random" is "while you're camping the hook", I think even beginner killers will catch on that they're Not Supposed To Do That.
It's not a background running mechanic, it's one that kicks in while you're standing near the hook. The worst case scenario is it conditions them to move away in a random direction rather than with purpose.
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If baby killers are getting one hook and then just face camping, then there should be a mechanic to encourage them to actually engage with the game.
Bad matchmaking aside, new killers players don't have to worry about very much. New survivors can't loop, don't run overtuned perk loadouts, can't blitz gens, can't flashlight save or even stun the killer effectively, they don't BM the killer as they are too busy ****ing themselves. A new killer just has to learn the game.
Removing cheesy garbage like hook camping will actually result in new killer players getting better, faster. Most players will completely forgo skill expression in favour of taking the easiest path to victory. Which is bad for the health of the game. Especially when it means one side can put down their controller for almost three minutes during a match and it have it not change the outcome in any way.
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If it isn't a background running mechanic, tell me what.
How do you know you are "near" the hook if you are a newbie killer and you don't follow the patchnotes?
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It will probably just make them leave the game.
I get it is going to make the game more fair for newbie survivors. But please, don't pretend it is going to help newbie killers. It isn't, it will be extremely frustrating for them.
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...Because you're the one that hooked the survivor??
Of course you're going to know where the hooked survivor is...? If you're close to the hook and you're paying attention enough to be engaging with the game's mechanics, you're gonna realise that being close to the hook and not doing anything else is punished. New players aren't literal infants, they have object permanence and short term memory.
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Define "close to the hook".
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Why?
You don't need to know the exact numbers, you just need to know that you need to be prioritising chasing a survivor that isn't on the hook. If you internalise that message, you're not going to be inside the radius of the anti-camp mechanic to begin with a majority of the time, which means it's actually improving the game experience + skill development of new players as well as functioning as an anti-camp mechanic.
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I hooked a survivor on the Dead Dog saloon, then I see a survivor in the main building and chase them, suddenly the survivor on the hook unhook himself for no reason.
Stupid game, uninstall.
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We already know other survivors being in the radius slows the progress down, and we don't know whether chases make a difference + what the speeds actually are. This isn't a problem with the idea in theory, it's something that depends on how it's implemented in practice.
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In this situation is possible that a survivor will be outside of the radius while killer is within the radius. And to know what's happening you need to know the exact radius. It's not like PH's cages, when you can immediately see the effect of you being around them and it is a unique effect, you need to figure what's happening and why.
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Sure, but for how long? How long is the survivor going to be outside the radius, while the killer's inside it? I'd argue not for long, even if they're looping in and out of the radius they'll be inside it some of the time.
And, again, we do not know how long the timer is, nor how much it's slowed. Hell, we don't know if the killer's given a unique effect to pay attention to. These are not fair criticisms of the idea, they're potential problems and we don't know whether they'll be present in the version we end up testing.
(Also, we do know the exact radius, iirc. It's 16 metres, Kindred range. The new player doesn't need that exact number, because all they need to know is "go chase someone else, don't stand by the hook")
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We know.
Newbie killer doesn't know.
And I bet that what I described will happen inevitably, the question is just how often. Also, I bet there won't be any unique effect, because BHVR doesn't care about killer QoL.
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Newbie killer doesn't need to know, it's information they'll learn as they invest in the game. All they need to know when they're new is "standing directly at the hook isn't good, so I should go chase someone else".
No comment on that last part. Completely baseless accusation with zero evidence, there's nothing to respond to.
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They'll learn to leave the game of frustration instead.
You don't need to respond. Just watch and see me being right.
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Sure thing, bud.
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It will definitely help new killer players in the long run. When the survivor pops off the hook, the killer isn't just going to DC. They will wonder what happened and attempt to tunnel the player. The killer gets experience in chase and the survivor can pick up their controller and start playing again. The killer might even discover that chasing is more fun than kebabing a survivor on hook.
If you want to help new killer players learn the game, a more robust tutorial system would be great. That would definitely help new killer players learn the mechanics of the game. I think that most new players, survivor or killer, have it very rough at the start of the game. There's a lot to learn and very little in-game to explain it in a way that new players can comprehend. Better tutorials would ease the growing pains that new players experience. Therefore limiting the frustrations that make players more likely to just stop playing before they can reach the top of first hill the have to climb.
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This is a great idea! For people speed-running their own account getting banned. Camping and tunnelling have repeatedly been stated to not be reportable - it even says so in-game.
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"If" that long run happens.
And it will only happen if the player is resistant enough to being frustrated by background running mechanics that were never explained in-game (and I am pretty sure they won't be explained).
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There is no way Hook Kobe RNG favor the killer. This would only work if a survivor tried to kobe as soon as it get hook to test their luck, which happens ALMOST NEVER. Most of the time survivors try to kobe when their match is lost, in hope to get a hook escape and the continue the match. Sorry, but i can't see this mechanic as a dumb and outdated mechanic, from a time where DBD where a atmospherical asymmetrical horror game, and not a horror themed asymmetrical PvP game.
Balance and fun are not opposite; they really walk together in the long run. The first time when someone is using a busted mechanic can be fun - see the anniversary event - but can lose its fun very fast, as you get used to it. I remember laughing the first day of the anniversary event when a killer zoned me by breaking a pallet using the event ability; and getting very stressed in the last day of the event when killers where no longer midgaming, just zoning using the Invitation's power.
As a community, i think we should step away from this common thread that "Broken stuff is what makes DBD fun" because its very unhealthy in the long run.
To me, most of people which defends broken stuff to stay in game the are people so used to play with those unfair advantages that can't stand a normal match playing without them; their games will be unfun, as their gameplays in crutched in those things. Old Eruption, Old Dead Hard, Old Decisive, the first Mori, old keys, everything broken that this game already had i'm very happy its gone, as you can have a very fun match without them.
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I realized that when they were trying to convince me that the superbowl does have "RNG" because the "hail mary" play exists.
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Since there are so many hoos on the map why can't the hooks just become unusable after each use? Just an idea. You only need 12 hooks to get everyone dead, what do you all think about this idea?
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of 2028
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They need to add something where players getting camped who unhook themselves get endurance for every second the killer chases them if the killer decides to tunnel them or else this feature will be worthless.
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