What exactly do you do against Xeno in Crawler Mode as survivor?
I'm both asking for tips and providing feedback on my personal experiences.
After at least 15 or more games going against Xeno and a handful playing as them, I still have no clue what survivors are really supposed to do against a Xeno in Crawler Mode.
Obviously if there's a flame turret nearby then I'll run by it, but I've noticed a few problems with this strategy, namely: 1) If the Xeno destroys the turret before it can force Xeno out of Crawler Mode, then the turret does very little to help the survivor being chased, and 2) Even if Xeno is forced out of Crawler Mode they can just pop in the tunnels for around 5 seconds and already have it back. While this helps the survivor that was being chased, especially if the Xeno decides to break chase to reacquire Crawler Mode, it leads into my next point.
So, if there isn't a flame turret nearby... then what are survivors supposed to do exactly? Windows and pallets are worse than useless against tail attacks except for the occasional god pallet that you are forced to pre-drop if and only if you have enough distance, and even if a survivor manages to dodge a tail attack, the buff to Xeno's movement speed on miss has made Xeno so fast that survivors literally can't capitalize on what should be their only opportunity to make distance and just end up stuck at whatever tile they are being chased at until they get hit.
The most comparable special attack to Crawler Mode Xeno is Nemesis' tentacle, and Nemesis moves at 1.15 m/s for 2.5s after using his tentacle attack, while Xeno moves at 2 m/s for 3s... and Xeno doesn't even have to infect survivors to start doing damage. Instead Xeno just has to spend around 5 seconds in the tunnels to get Crawler Mode.
From a balance perspective and fun perspective for survivors, I think Crawler Mode might need to be toned down slightly. Don't get me wrong though: I love the idea behind Xeno and its power despite my negative tone in this post, I just think Crawler Mode could use some number changes to make Xeno more fun for survivors to play against. This is nothing like Skull Merchant, where her entire power kit is unfixable with simple number tweaks.
TL;DR: Crawler Mode feels too easy to acquire for how powerful it is, flame turrets don't provide adequate counterplay against Crawler Mode in their current state, and Xeno isn't punished enough for missed attacks in Crawler Mode.
Comments
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These were exactly my points. I still can't figure out how to play against it - so now I play as it and watch what survs do against me.
Right now I feel like when I master his tail whip, I will start my first win streak.
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Xeno is a chase killer, he has nothing if you don't get caugh. Use turrets, they make noise when Xeno is close(even in tunnels), even in undeplyed state. See/hear turret make noises and it's near you - hide.
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Ah, right. The perfect counter strategy of "just don't X". In Xeno's case: to do well in chase, just don't get chased.
In all seriousness though: yes, I imagine that increases your survivability but it doesn't at all address the point of what to actually do in chase. And "don't be in chase at all" runs kinda counter to the game design.
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Not at all. I know a lot of survivors just want to do nothing but run the killer through as many loops as they can, but stealth is a large part of the game too.
This killer gives you a tool to both help with staying hidden via an early warning, and help in chase by removing their power.
You're supposed to play differently against different killers. They can't all be "loop 50 times until you have to drop the pallet and repeat".
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Provide clips or a recording if you do actually want feedback and tips.
Additionally, playing xeno yourself would help you understand what works against it and what doesn't.
General tips are understanding that the turret beeps warn you the killer is within 41m of it, and the faster/louder it beeps, the closer he is.
And dont place turrets in a direct straight line from the tunnel to wherever you're going to be, place them to the side of where you're going to run to so xeno is forced to pick between getting knocked out of M2, or destroying the turret but losing track of you / conceding distance.
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For me it's the lack of visual and audio feedback when Xeno does the tail attack. All other ranged or mid range killers have a feedback when they are about to use their attack so you have time enough to react: Huntress has to aim for example. There is a bit of delay so you can try to dodge. And in addition she is slowed while doing so. Xeno is not. I feel there is no real indication with Xeno. He just whips you before you can react and then can do it immediately again. His slower movement after a hit is bugged and does not always trigger. And I feel it doesn't even trigger when it misses, which leaves you thinking that you have no chance.
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He gains bloodlust too when in crawler mode
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It feels like Xeno was designed with higher level survivors in mind. But i think they went overboard with how little she is slowed down while recovering from the M2 (That might be a bug tough) .
There is not a whole lot of meaningful interaction between the survivors and Xeno. You are supposed to be efficient with gens and use the small amount of time bought by turrets to get somewhere safer or pre drop a pallet.
If all the survivors are efficient and do this then Xeno is mostly fine. Would be nice if she was actually slowed down while recovering from the tail attack tough.
I have been using Overcome + Lucky Break (underrated combo tbh) builds to deal with Xeno. You get to actually escape chases and heal up pretty fast afterwards. Not very good against 1 shot killers but Xeno is super popular right now so it works out.
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You don't really need clips to discuss meta killer strategies for both sides.
As you can read in the original post, I have been playing as him, and I generally understand how to use flame turrets. As I stated, the main situation I don't understand is what survivors are supposed to do when flame turrets have been destroyed and Xeno inevitably catches up with you, because it's literally impossible to place flame turrets faster than Xeno can destroy them, and then even if the turret ends Crawler Mode they can just pop in the tunnels for less than 5 seconds to get it back.
So given that when I play Xeno and I can essentially be in Crawler Mode for the vast majority of the game... now what are survivors supposed to do? When I catch up to survivors they literally have no way to avoid getting hit. They cant even duck to avoid hits at some loops. Even Pyramid Head and Nemesis are slowed down while they have their powers out and if they miss. Hell, Pyramid Head even gets slowed down even more just for taking his sword out.
And against those two killers there are general counterplay tips while in chase (i.e. duck after vaulting to try to avoid the tentacle hit, path unpredictably around a loop if a Pyramid Head is going for prediction shots, use the time when they get slowed down after a missed attack to make distance). But a comparably similar special attack on Xeno has very little counterplay, barely has an activation condition, and has the tiniest penalty upon missing. Taking into consideration Xeno as a whole, it just seems to me both that Crawler Mode is overtuned and that flame turrets aren't effective enough of a counterplay mechanic. Heck, if flame turrets removed X amount of charges per second from Crawler Mode while Xeno is being burnt instead of it being an 'all or nothing' scenario I believe they would be in a much better spot as a means of counterplay.
Post edited by AGM on3 -
Yes, you do need clips, as far as im concerned you could be running in a straight line trough a turret, not even attempting to properly counterplay.
Xeno has to be able to be in crawler mode a good portion of the time, otherwise hes just an M1 killer with crossmap traverse, arguably worse than demo at that point.
Turrets shouldn't knock xeno out of its power if he gets burned for a second, right now it takes about 2 seconds to knock xeno out of power and thats a healthy amount of time to allow for counterplay while also allowing xeno to react and defend itself.
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I would turrets only breaks with basic attacks and not with its tail, because you can use the tail barely entering the turret zone and you don’t lose too much power
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A good portion doesn't mean it needs to be more than 95% of the trial.
And I didn't say anything like ending Xeno's power completely if a couple of flames lick them.
Currently, Crawler Mode takes 35 charges to activate. Above ground, Xeno gains 1 charge per second, and when in the tunnels this is (absurdly, imo) boosted up to 8 charges per second. I just think the flames from turrets should drain the power gauge by a certain number of charges per second instead of making it an all or nothing interaction. That way after every flame turret (not just when it successfully knocks Xeno out of Crawler Mode) the player has to make a tactical choice as to whether they should continue chase as an m1 killer or drop chase to reobtain Crawler Mode.
But in regards to survivor tips, I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the flame turrets when I'm specifically talking about the scenario where you're being chased by a Xeno in Crawler Mode and any flame turrets nearby have been destroyed. You can't place a flame turret mid-chase, so I'm not sure how turrets are relevant to the scenario I'm describing in any way. And I'm not sure why you need a clip to imagine the scenario unless you've never played against Xeno, as it happens literally every game against them.
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"I Dont want to end xeno's power if a couple of flames lick it"
"I want it to remove charges so it loses crawler mode for a couple of seconds if a flame licks it"
How do you manage to contradict yourself not even 2 sentences apart...
If it loses charges and gets knocked out of power, then hes a glorified M1 killer, glad to know yall only consider killers "balanced and fair" if they are just powerless M1s.
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Did you miss the part where after flame turrets are destroyed that Xeno's power charges up automatically? Losing all 35 charges worth of the gauge is not the same as losing a small piece and waiting a few seconds for it to charge naturally. Like I get what you're trying to say, but my dude, not everything is black and white. Add a little nuance to your thought process.
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