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Point that survivors look at but don't see
After some reaction on Xeno from people who only plays one side i feel like i need to show some math to them.
You guys want to:
- Killers don't camp and tunnel
- Don't 3 gen, and other strategies where u need to put some effort to deal with
- Pressure whole map
- Can't slowdown the match with perks too much
- You should be able to counter killer in every aspect of his power and be able to loop him as long as a pallets exist
And this is while:
- 2 or 3 gens done with a 1 hook is a common situation on a high mmr
- game without slowdown / regress last 5-6 minutes even against mediocre survivors, if you are not on top killers (and play without any mistakes)
And that's why any good player understands perfectly well that one long chase (more than 1 minute is enough) it's literally the difference between losing and winning in a lot of matches.
And while all the "dirty" tactics are being removed from the game, literally as you wished, guess which aspect of the game the pressure that was created by these tactics and helped the killers win will go to?
Let me help you: on the chase.
The killer simply has no right not to be oppressive in the chase and not to be at least slightly better than the m1 killer in map control in the current state of game. Otherwise, it is not an actual killer for this game.
Also, while survivors talk about killer being too strong, i met blight main who thinks that killer is weak.
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Legit xeno is a killer that is a menace at low to lower mid mmr and can get shut down if you know what to do which imo puts them at high b low a
And all the survivors who say the turrets are basically useless admit that they don't know what to do against the xeno yet
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Nah. They're just not strong enough. Just throw on Star Map + Emergency Helmet and turrets don't matter anymore.
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- Dont tunnel us!
- Be right back as we genrush
The main problem is for some reason the devs listen to these kind of people
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And when they get a killer that gives a challenge they cry and moan lol
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What do you expect them to do? Loop killer for you? They give you half-map info, makes killer stop chasing you to break them (free distance), and sometimes could turn killer into m1 killer.
Let me guess, you want them turn killer into m1 killer every time he face with it, don't you? So everyone could waste like 5-10 seconds to play against Trapper without traps whole match.
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TLDR: You have to be 50% slower at reaction times than the average human to fail at a reaction M2 against a turret. Only baby Xenos (even without add-ons) get burnt out of power from a single turret when they don't want to.
The turret takes 1.5s to burn Xeno out. If a Xeno is in the worst case scenario, running parallel to the turret (so you start at the max turret range and being burnt before you approach) with no add-ons that the Xeno didn't know where the turret was, lets check how long it takes. You first have to react and start moving in the direction of the turret, average audio response time is .17s, but we'll use visual since its slower at .25s. Then you need to close the distance to get within 4.8m, or tail whip range. The normal turret detection radius is 10m, so you need to run 5.2m and use the whip at some point during the approach (with the .4s lingering hitbox, this is quite forgiving). Xeno moves at 4.6, so 5.2/4.6 = ~1.13s. Add in the average visual reaction time of .25s and you get an average WORST CASE of 1.38s before the tail hits the turret. This means Xeno is designed to reaction M2 turrets unless you are more than 50% slower than the average human, and I'd argue gamers are faster than the average by a decent margin. Latency doesn't appear to apply as when I reviewed videos of Xenos breaking turrets, the heat bar doesn't fill after the turret is broke from the Xeno's attack on the Xeno's screen, but to be fair, it might be only low ping VODs I watched.
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My thoughts on Xeno from many games since release is, it's an oppressive killer and if played somewhat right will easily stomp people. As you said it's good in lower to mid mmr but so are most killers... I play both sides more leaning towards killer but this killer feels pretty rough. Has a lot of tools in the arsenal and not really difficult to learn.
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Sadako with map wide Condemned gets called out for no skill gameplay.
Alien gets called out for skilled (hitting the tail still needs practice) gameplay
ok
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Being in range of your opponent, predicting their actions, and hitting a single button is considered skilled now?
Glad to hear it.
Although it's interesting that when it's a killer ability it's 'skill', but when it's dead hard, it 'takes no effort and is free' for literally years until it gets nerfed into the dirt. Strange how that works out.
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""Being in range of your opponent, predicting their actions, and hitting a single button is considered skilled now"
Anticipated the opponent and accuracy. That take some skill i would say. Is it huntress/slinger sniping level skillful? nah probably not but it far from being brainless.
6.1 version of dh did take skill to use. It just most of the killer players at the time was blinded by the dead hard hate and wouldn't give it any credit.
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You're trying to compare Xeno's M2 that requires relatively accurate aiming with no crosshair or aiming indicator, requires you to read survivors movement + Window/Pallet Fakes, and game sense to know how far 4.8m is in order to land "snipes" to DH ...
The same DH that gave you almost 10m of free distance for pressing E in in the general direction of a pallet / Window...
The same DH that made killers have to spend 10s sniffing a survivors hair to attempt to bait DH, even if the survivor DIDN'T bring DH.
Come on man, sometimes you gotta read your own posts and realize how ridiculous you sound, that is survivor main hottake of the year contender right there.
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I stopped reading the forum for a while after alien chapter release.
EVERY single new killer is op. Perks are op. Add-ons are op.
Enough already.
Constantly asking for killer nerfs is killing the game.
Some survivors want a gen repair sim. Don't hit me Mr Killer I'll get upset.
Incidentally I have only played Xeno a few times and I struggle to get kills let alone win the game. But in my second game 2 survivors saw who killer was and AFKd. They would have escaped easily but instead threw the rattle out the pram.
As for the post saying only baby Xeno's get burnt out of their power, news flash some people actually have a life.
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the victimization and the us vs them r getting old. Like why do yall generalize all survivors as some sort of hivemind. I swear theyre not all chronically online . you get riled up over some obscure posts on the forum and come to the conclusion that the whole survivor base r the same. Like knight and skullmerchant were barely touched, xeno will be fine.
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There is no victimization, i'm literally try to explain how things work from both perspectives. I'm both sides player. And there is no any conclusion about "whole survivor base". There is some about people who only play one side.
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i met blight main who thinks that killer is weak
So you met someone who can only win playing the strongest killer in the game and you think this helps your point? saying "this obviously bad player says the killer is bad, therefore it is" is not the gotcha moment you think it is
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Trapper has no problems with anything these forums are whining about currently. Carry on.
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Is this forum us vs them only anymore?
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Even as some one whos experienced at the game and has played and faced Xeno more than enough, something about him needs to be addressed.
In terms of strength hes fine and to play as hes great, but to play against him is just repetitive and boring. He encourages pre dropping and holding W since his power in a loop is a "mind game" that HEAVILY favors Xeno. Theres basically 0 skill expression on the Survivor side.
One thing that absolutely needs to be fixed is the bug (at least Im pretty sure its a bug) that barely slows him down even after a successful tail attack. Another being his hitbox on the tail. I didnt know it was possible to make something look even more janky than Nemesis' drag tech, yet here we are. Every game Ive played as Xeno I get at least one hit where a Survivor is around a corner. Thats not even counting all the other janky hits I get that game.
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"awww, were sick of nurse and blight"
a new fun killer comes out
" IM SICK OF THIS NEW KILLER ON DAY 2!. NERF THEM! Bring back nurse, blight and wesker!
I literally saw a topic on this forum on day 2 of xeno saying please bring back blight.
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I’m going to wager and say you have not played against this multiple times. Because if you had, you’d know: 1. Turrets do almost nothing to players who know what they are doing 2. They almost always have their power which means you are constantly at the mercy of the ridiculous tail hitbox. The tail does not even require much skill or accuracy at all and there is basically no penalty for missing. 3 it is EXTREMELY easy to camp/tunnel because of the tunnel system.
There is no way to defend such limited counter play unless you are just a blindly bias killer main.
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Oh i have and I have yet to get a 4/3 man escape(most I've gotten is a 2 man escape) you seriously expect me a survivor that does the objectives instead of looking for a long chase to complain? HA most of the time I get caught doing the objective I get two gens done again xeno Is a noob stomper you guys are acting like the turret is supposed to be used for one thing either a radar or a tool to knock out its power which unless the xeno uses an addon to counter one portion of the turret can do both
Also the tail has a small hitbox which makes it hardly as accurate as a majority of these survivors claim ESPECIALLY on console if it was as accurate as you claim how come console players can miss barely?
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If you want a tip heres two 1.don't work on the gen you start on grab the turret walk away a bit place the turret down
2.crouch walk(don't know of walking triggers the footsteps as i tend to urban evasion this chapter) to the other gen or back to the one you spawned by if the xeno leaves and chases someone else
Congrats you now last a bit longer in your matches against a xeno
Post edited by Majin151 on0 -
More like they want a running simulator lol as a survivor who prefers to do the objective I tend to blame mmr giving me terrible teammates and good killers
But with this chapter I'm enjoying it since I'm only getting one person looking for a chase while playing soloq instead of me being the only one doing gens and getting messages from salty team mates bitching at me and blaming me that they died when there were 2 gens left
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Point that survivors look at but don't seeOkay, if we're just ranting, here's the point that gets missed that the forum seems to be filled with.
Survivor mains make up hundreds of thousands of players. They are not a collective, they are individuals. Each person will have their own distinct complaints about the game and the direction they want it to go to, this does not mean that every survivor main agrees on what should be changed about the game.
After some reaction on Xeno from people who only plays one side i feel like i need to show some math to them.I was looking forward to math but don't see any.
You guys want to:Camp: Some level of camping is inevitably part of the game. But yes, being able to just stick a person on the hook and stand there has lots of problems.
Tunnel: I'd like it to be harder to hard tunnel someone out, but again its going to be an aspect of the game barring massive design shifts.
3 Gen: After overbrine got nerfed, this isn't too bad. Playing attack/defend doesn't really feel like a game of DbD though.
Can't slowdown the match with perks too much- the use of "too" is doing a lot of work here. It's like saying killers don't want perks that allow survivors to speed up the gen 'too' much. It should be obvious there is a line were any perk becomes "too" strong. I think Overbrine crossed that line, they overcorrected in my opinion.You should be able to counter killer in every aspect of his power and be able to loop him as long as a pallets exist- I don't even get this, counterplay should exist, right?And that's why any good player understands perfectly well that one long chase (more than 1 minute is enough) it's literally the difference between losing and winning in a lot of matches.It's a chase game. If a survivor is able to sufficiently distract a killer for long enough, they win. I'm not sure what else you want to be the difference maker.
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