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Xenomorph Tail Spear needs better warning
Please my only issue with the alien as a killer is the tail spear feels like there’s no telegraph other than an audio cue that gives you no time to react unless you have super senses. this is even worse for people who are hard of hearing. there needs to be some kind of visual cue as well as give enough time to react to that cue. obviously this isn’t an issue when not in runner mode but i CANNOT rely on my teammates to set up any turrets and i can’t myself if im being tunneled non-stop.
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Same! Since it barely has a cooldown at all, it should at least give clear warning that it's about to be used. Too fast for not having any cooldown at all.
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The missed CD is 3 seconds. Longer than majority of killer power CDs.
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they don’t tend to miss if you can’t dodge it
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You just need to better position yourself with walls. Once the tail collides with a wall, it will no longer be able to deal damage to survivors.
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I'm glad there's no telegraph, too many things in this game have a wind up warning you they are coming.
Good to see an actual scary mechanic again that I can't just predict and have to really spin and think to effectively dodge.
Please don't dumb it down BHVR it's great the way it is.
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If it telegraphs, then alien needs to be able to hold his attack just like huntress and slinger
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The Xenomorph tail attack does need better telegraphing. I can't tell where I should be aiming with it. The middle of my screen? The tip of the tail that covers my screen?
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Maybe you should play it yourself for awhile and develop more of a prescience for when the Xenomorph might try to strike. Having the tail strike wind up like a huntress hatchet wouldn't make sense because of the limited range, it'd turn the killer into a celebrity punching bag, and as fun as that might be for survivors, nobody wants to play a killer that isn't respectably dangerous vs the gen speed.
Also, try not to forget that escaping is not supposed to be easy as a cakewalk, it's called a trial for a reason.
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this is definitely a fair point but i think it’s unreasonable to EXPECT someone to pay real money for a character they don’t want just to be able to play against that character,
i know it shouldn’t be easy, i don’t want it easy, i want it to be reasonable. i haven’t seen a single person in any of my games escape against there xenomorph since it came out no matter how good they are.
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i position myself and use walls fine, the issue is knowing when you need to try to dodge and if you have to guess then half the time they don’t use it and get a free m1 instead
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making something fair/reasonable is not dumbing it down. i understand wanting a scary mechanic but maybe this is not the way to handle that.
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Since it came out? It hasn't even been 48 hours...
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how many hours should it be before at least 1 survivors can escape a killer?
Post edited by nekomrade on1 -
People always put it behind the shield of fairness, but basically the more fair it is the less scary it is.
What makes a movie monster so monstrous?
What makes over coming said monster such a great experience?
The answer is the same for both of these questions... its not entirely fair.
The monster has the advantage and sets the tone and the survivors struggle against the odds to succeed. Anything less is a bland wet noodle of an experience.
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The hit cooldown is also 3 seconds.
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i haven’t seen a single person in any of my games escape against there xenomorph since it came out no matter how good they are.
That is most definitely a skill issue, I've seen multiple people escape every game. Xenomorph has nowhere near the skill ceiling or level of lethality required to consistently 4k against skilled players. A 4.8m melee attack over some obstacles is not on the same level as a Nurse who can teleport from up to 20m away through any obstacles.
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If other killers have wind up sounds to make their ranged attacks more fair, I'm not sure why Alien wouldn't have them. Especially as it doesn't get punished nearly as much for missing them.
It's not the cooldown that is an issue. It's that the Alien doesn't get slowed down as much as other killers after missing with the tail. So they can still keep up with survivors even when they make mistakes. It's strange that Alien gets a slap on the wrist for missing a ranged attack, but other killers get their teeth knocked out. It feels out of place with how the game is built.
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Xenomorph should be slowed down to 2.0m/s during the 3 second cooldown. If xenomorph is not getting slowed down to 2.0m/s, that's a bug.
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So when the Tail attack can be easily dodged and missed attacks slow the Xeno down for long enough to escape, and the Tail attack is no better or worse than the Special attack from other killers like Demo, Nemo, etc.
...what will be the point of Turrets?
Why would a mediocre Special attack need a counter that removes the killer's ability to use it entirely?
Why would survivors need to waste time interacting with Turrets when they can just dodge the Tail attack?
Tail attack is supposed to be unforgiving, so that survivors are pressured to use Turrets, so that Xeno doesn't have 100% uptime. Yet Turrets have to be counterable, otherwise Xeno's power would have 0% uptime like Singularity.
Post edited by Seraphor on2 -
I saw a video from a content creator that said BHVR reduced the slowdown from missing with the tail from the PTB to Live. I'm slightly unsure of the details as I haven't kept up with patch notes for the last few weeks.
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i’m willing to accept alternate forms of balancing, not telegraphing the tail attack just seemed like the initial issue. maybe the balancing lies on making turrets easier to set up because as it stands turrets are unreliable unless doing swf at high mmrs. either way i just needed to voice my feedback bc xeno is NOT fun for anyone but the killers who are steamrolling everyone and the masochists who like getting steamrolled for some reason?
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Most killers with ranged powers get slowed a ton when they ready it up. X3no does not get slower. It does not even need to wind up like Huntress.
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Xenomorph's range is 4.8m and survivors have the ability to knock him out of his crawler mode.
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Theoretical possibility to knock him out*
If you run 1 of several perks that make turrets weaker, you can reliably destroy them on reaction no matter the placement.
The only real possibility is to double-up on turrets which is throwing time-wise
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I do think the skill floor on disabling turrets is too low, especially with the add ons. And a big part is that Xeno simply doesn't have many decent add ons as it is, so the turret ones are the obvious choice.
The all-or-nothing nature of them is the issue I think. Turrets exist as a counter to the killers power by limiting uptime, and need to strike a balance between 0% reduction and 100% reduction. There's skill expression on the survivors side in terms of turret placement, which has a low skill ceiling, and skill expression on the killers side in terms of hitting the turrets fast enough, which currently has a low skill floor, which puts that uptime-reduction needle very close to 0%. But alter these too much as you drastically shift that needle from 0% to 100% very easily.
As I mentioned in my topic, I think the main nerf Xeno needs right now is a rework of how turrets take them out of crawler mode.
Turrets no longer build up a separate gauge and then either disable Crawler mode or not depending on if that gauge is filled. Instead, Turrets will always knock the Xenomorph out of Crawler mode, but the remaining charge will be relative to the time you were hit by the flames. Similar to when picking up a survivor drops you to 75% charge. Therefore if you do successfully destroy the Turret fast enough, you will regain Crawler mode faster than if you did not.
Currently, there is a separate gauge with 100 charges, and being hit by flames increases that gauge by 66 c/s, once it reaches 100, Crawler mode deactivates and goes on full cooldown.
But Crawler mode itself is a 35 charge gauge that increases by 1c/s (8c/s in tunnels).
I think instead, flames should increase the hidden gauge by something like 150c/s instead of 66c/s, so that it fills in less than a second. Then once that gauge is filled, instead of completely resetting the power, it instantly knocks out Crawler mode and reduces the gauge by something like 15c/s. This should work out to something like 3 seconds in the flames completely depletes the gauge, but 1 second only depletes by about 25%.
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Actually if u use 0 turret addons, then indeed good placement vs good pathing in turret area can knock xeno out of it.
But as u said - everyone uses 1 of the addons so turrets are meaningless right now.
So the thing to fix it is your proposition from another threat, or deleting all those addons or keeping turrets meaningless, but nerfing his tail (but the tail is fun the way it is, so I would rather buff turrets)
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Yeah, 'keeping turrets meaningless' seems like a ridiculous side to take considering they exist.
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Which does not always work. Especially if it uses the addon.
I do not need much. Just an audio cue or something.
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Xenomorph has no tools to catch up if survivors get distance which is what turrets enable survivors to do.
Good placements of a turret can end a chase even if it didn't break him out of crawler mode.
He doesn't need to give survivors a warning because that's not how you are suppose to counter him.
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Here is the spectrogram of a clip of a video, with 0 being the moment the tail whip button was pressed, and the end being the moment before it hits. You see that bump in the middle? That actually isn't me screaming the battle roar I make before every kill, that's the audio cue the tail makes before preparing to swing.
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Nobody is moving a survivor hit box out of that attack hit box off of the audio cue without superhuman reflexes. NFL quarterbacks don't have that reaction time.
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You were saying?
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I said what my post said. They're not dodging those if that killer mirrors their side to side movement even a little bit.
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Go watch "looping the new Alien Killer with no perks" by Naymeti on Youtube.
Quite a funny and educational watch for this topic!
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it is called prediction. it is what meg did in farm map. the attack is not meant to have any counter-play out in the open because m2 is replacement to m1 attacks for xeno. your only meant to do predictions in the loops.
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So the entire tail whip is about 0.6s until it hits. The sound cue is around 0.2s leaving 0.4s of reaction time. The average reaction time of humans is at about 0.27s, leaving 0.13s. This is maybe enough to fit in the average latency of players in dbd if they live relatively close to the server, but God forbid one of the players has a ping higher than 80ms....
wich happens more often than you think.
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So it is always a 50/50. If I predict the M2 I get distance, if the killer is patient I get hit.
We had this kind of 50/50 play with old Spirit and it was hated because it was too much guessing.
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Neither does it have the range of huntress or other ranged killers.
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Exactly this put in a lil time and learn, that's what some players are not willing to do.
The "it's hard nerf it" mentality will bury gaming in general.
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Hmmmm.... Deathslinger, Plague, Demo, Dorito Head...
They are all slowed.
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Pretty sure all of them except demo out range the tail and demo could use a buff.
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Demo outranges the tail too.
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Learn how to predict it then.... and if your vaulting while he has it try to bait it out then vault. you dont always need a crutch when a killer has a decent power you need to adapt and learn how to counter said killer instead of asking for more handicaps just to make it easier on yourself. his hitbox is precise asf, so its very easy to bait.
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Well there you go 'nuff said.
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