Ultimate Weapon shouldn't make you scream if you're inside a locker
As the title says, Ultimate Weapon shouldn't make survivors in lockers scream. It's already strong enough making you scream when entering the killer's TR as is, it does not need to make you scream while INSIDE a locker as well. You don't scream from Doctor's Static Blast while inside of a Locker, why should this perk be any different?
Comments
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I reported this yesterday to the support team because I believe this might be a bug! Hopefully. It had 0 counter play if it wasn’t and it’d be very odd.
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Darn. Idk, it is a super fun perk though and is great.
If changes do happen, I hope two things go:
1) increase cooldown timer for, ultimate weapon by 5-10 seconds.
2) nerf, Made For This to 2% movement speed and take away Endurance.
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Agreed. Every other scream perk/power is blocked by lockers, which is the only counter play outside of running the meme perk calm spirit. I don't see why a strong perk like that gets to ignore lockers.
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Y'all need to stop bringing MFT into any conversation that it's not about MFT. It's so boring to go through comments of any conversation and seeing people pulling that card all the damn time.
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The bug reports about this have been categorized "not a bug" and honestly it makes no sense. Why is everything that reveal survivors (aura & screams) counterable by lockers except this ?
Why bother having counter mechanics if you make exceptions to them... honestly i just have no faith in whoever makes and balances perks anymore tbh it just keeps getting messier
MFT has nothing to do with this and bringing it up everywhere is both irrelevant and annoying.
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I really think this is an oversight.
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Thank you! Like sweetie. This discussion is about ultimate weapon. This isnt about made for this. Go to other threads that talk about that.
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It's listed as not a bug, which is good. Killers need good tracking perks, and this is a good start. If BHVR expects killers to leave a hooked survivor to find someone else, then killers need good ways to find survivors that are just hiding, so that it’s actually worth leaving a hooked survivor.
Lockers have been way too safe, for way too long. I’m fact, there should be more killer perks that work on survivors in lockers.
And imagine that we have two survivor perks that are massively overused compared to all the other perks in the game, but we want to complain about a killer tracking perk? Killers are allowed to have good perks too.
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Somebody could say here they had a cheeseburger last night and there would be people making the conversation about MFT.
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This perk just means that BHVR no longer cares about survivors that don't want to chase + last survivor is pretty much screwed + flash saves are pretty much impossible.
I don't know who makes decisions like this at BHVR, but so be it. It does not bother me that bad as I don't play flashlights or hide that much. But god the decisions to boot so big part of their player base (or force them to use current ######### version of calm spirit)
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I'm pretty sure this is a bug and I'd make sure to report it in the appropriate section.
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It's been closed because "not a bug" here :
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Well damn, I thought they didn't like to make exceptions like this. Literally every other instance of screaming is suppressed by a locker so this one should be too.
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Yes, that's what bothers me about the most about it. It seems BHVR threw consistency out of the window. (and the fact that it means the only counter is the dreadful Calm spirit doesn't help)
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If killers want to find survivors hiding in lockers, they should run something for aura reading and Whispers. Why should other things that makes you scream be countered by lockers while Ultimate Weapon just bypasses that counter?
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Lockers block aura reading, so it's useless for finding survivors in lockers.
And new perks are allowed to work differently from previous perks. There's no universal law that prevents this. In fact, if we want to be consistent, then all the other screaming things should be updated so they can also work on survivors that are hiding in lockers.
Lockers shouldn't be as safe as they are. And survivors keep getting quality of life improvement after quality of life improvement. You know what would be a great quality of life improvement for killers? Let's make lockers even less safe, because survivors excessively hiding is very unfun for killers.
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My point of having aura reading + whispers is that if whispers is active, and you cant see the survivor's aura, that means they're in a locker
Also I'm not against new perks working differently than old perks, but the point I'm making is that it's been previously established with doctor's static blast and other screaming perks that lockers make it so you don't scream. Adding a perk that completely goes against that completely negates the point of said things not making you scream. It leaves an inconsistency.
And I say this as someone who primarily plays killer, but plays both sides pretty equally. It's extremely unfair to have so many scream based mechanics be countered by lockers and then suddenly have a perk that completely ignores that mechanic. The whole point of lockers is that they're supposed to be safe, somewhere you can hide from the killer. If you don't enjoy that as a killer then start running Iron Maiden or play killers that revolve around lockers, like Huntress/Trickster or Dredge. Or play killers that can reveal survivors in lockers with Killer Instinct, like Legion.
I'm not against killers being able to find survivors in lockers, I'm against the inconsistency that Ultimate Weapon brings to the whole screaming and lockers thing.
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I can't think of any recent changes to survivors besides worst healing and worst vaults so I'm really confused about what QoL changes survivors apparently keep getting that would justify rendering lockers useless
And although survivors hiding the entire game is definitely unfun, killing the entire stealth playstyle would be overkill to say the least. Chases have been made shorter and stealth is required at least to some extent. Also not being able to counter something is very unfun too.
UM would still be very good without the locker scream, forcing survivors to hide in a locker is really not a bad thing, and iron maiden exists.
(And whispers work against lockers btw)
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It's literally activated by opening a locker, of course it's going to help you find people in lockers.
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I tried to have a cheeseburger last night too but it was literally RUINED by the existence of Made For This in my life. I could not enjoy that cheeseburger because Made For This is a thing. BHVR ruined my cheeseburger, leaving this game forever, GOODBYE.
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It makes Survivors scream upon entering the Terror Radius. If they're outside of the Terror Radius when the Killer is picking up then that person isn't getting saved. And if you are inside their Terror Radius when they activate it, they won't see you.
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It doesn't make lockers useless, and it alerts the survivor when the perk locates them, so the survivor can react accordingly.
Survivors got a survivor HUD, visual terror radius, anti camping (removed hook grabs), another anti camping change that's happening in the future, and an anti 3 gen change that's happening in the future, and a potential anti-lobby dodging (removed prestiege levels) change that might happen in the future. And BHVR super boosted the number line of sight breakers on the maps, which was done to give survivors extra chances to escape chases, and to make it easier for survivors to hide. And BHVR increased the forced camera yanks for killers, to give survivors extra chances at escaping chases.
Meanwhile, killers only have 1 quality of life buff planned for the future, it hasn't happened yet, and the one and only quality of life buff might be getting delayed over and over because BHVR is spending so much time finding new ways to buff the survivor quality of life.
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This isn't a case of inconsistency. There was never an established rule the lockers are required to block screaming. It's just coincidental that things in the past have coincidentally done this. You're making up a fake rule. This game evolves over time, and it's about time that killers can finally get more anti-locker perks.
We can make up a fake rule that Light-Footed is inconsistent because it is a survivor perk that lowers footstep noises, and we've never had a survivor perk that could affect footstep noises. So, according to our fake rule, we need to completely rework Light-Footed, because our fake rule states there can never be a survivor perk that affects footstep noises.
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What bothers me is that the devs are supporting killers to just slug then find the last survivor when there is no way to get the gens done(4 gens for ex). There are many situations where stealth means nothing anymore when u are battling it out for exit gates and ur the last survivor because of this perk.
If they wont do anything about it, people might as well start bringing calm spirit and make it meta. Confident killers will ask to nerf calm spirit if it even becomes meta. Which would honestly be hilarious
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In calm spirit meta, dhope+noed+face the darkness+thrill of the hunt is uncounterable combo. Thanks to inexplicable buff calm spirit got that totally burried it.
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That's the point of the forums to discuss and give feedback for changes xD if it's boring, I suppose you should just take a break from here then?
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Just because it activates by opening a locker doesn't mean it should reveal people who are hiding in them
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There's a place and time my guy. This post had literally nothing to do with MFT, you just decided to bring it up for no reason. I get you're mad about MFT, but go make your own forum post about it, lmao.
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Actually, you're wrong. The description is misleading. Yes it says when entering the Terror Radius, but it makes you scream if you're already inside their terror radius as well.
There is literally no counter to this perk other than Calm Spirit
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The forums are to start discussions about topics and stick to those. If I am interested in a discussion about something and then everybody drags the conversation out of the track of the topic it’s a chaos. The conversations could be a cosmetic rework of Ada Wong’s shoes and somebody would pull out MFT. Learn time and place, please.
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How would it be uncounterable? Calm Spirit makes it so you don't scream. I mean yeah sure you cleanse totems faster and if the killer is just puppyguarding their totem, or playing Demo with coach whistle, then yeah it's gonna be impossible. Honestly I think the totem cleanse speed nerf is kind of stupid, the whole reason that was changed is I assume because of FtD so you can't just cleanse the totem for free but come the ######### on, it's a hex totem, and all it does is make people scream when outside of your terror radius. It's not so strong of a perk that it should be completely uncounterable.
I feel like screaming shouldn't interrupt totem cleanse actions, because it's extremely stupid how you can make totems literally uncleanseable just by running a silly hex perk that makes cleansing speeds slower
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Exactly. There's no point in having people create new posts about specific issues if people are just going to bring other issues into the replies of said posts, you might as well have it just be a general post-based forum with no categorization. People just leave comments as they see fit.
Some people have clearly never heard the phrase "time and place"
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I have to disagree with the notion that this is a "fake rule". What you have to remember is, if the killer is forcing survivors to hide in lockers to avoid screaming, that in of itself is pressure and keeping survivors off gens, which is what you want as killer. So while it isn't an actual rule that scream perks don't affect people in lockers, it IS a regular factor considered for balance.
With that in mind, there is no good reason to have this perk reveal survivors in lockers, because the survivors are hiding to avoid the effect, at the expense of not progressing gens; you're still gaining value here. However in it's current form the perk has no downsides, you always find the survivors, which in turn means you can still prevent survivors working on gens AND you get an easy chase too... You always know exactly where any nearby survivors are, and more importantly where they aren't, so you get to have your cake and eat it.
Now if you want a perk that helps you find those stealth survivors who doesn't help the team and just hide all game, the perk wants to have some kind of appropriate downside to faciliate that.
E.g. modify the perk to only effect survivors not performing a conspicuous action.
However you can't have it be a Swiss army knife that solves all of your problems for you. Currently this perk is just a straight up upgrade to Whispers.
Post edited by UndeddJester on8 -
Agreed. Going against a Nurse with all aura-reading perks and this perk was just too much. At that point as a killer you're just on cruise control.
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Ah right. I forgot you won't get interupted any more. Still it would be super nasty build, because you would have so much more time to interrupt survivors manually with high mobility killers. But you are right, that it would not be "uncounterable" - just strong and damn so frustrating (especially because of viability made by your own perk)
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I don't care if a survivor isn't working on a generator if they are in a locker. If I hook a survivor, then I want to find someone else to chase, instead of feeling like it's a complete waste of time to leave the hooked survivor. Lockers shouldn't be giving so much immunity to tracking perks, because it just encourages killers to camp. Lockers should giving immunity to EITHER aura reading OR screaming, but not both, because it's too much value for too little effort.
This perk does have a major downside already, that it alerts the survivor when the perk finds them, so the survivor can react accordingly. This perk has a second downside compared to aura reading perks, that it just gives a single point of detection, instead of multiple consecutive seconds of aura reading.
BHVR should at least let the perk stay like this a few months, to see what the pick rate is when the perk isn't new anymore. We've been constantly told we should "wait and see" for Made for This, and we should "wait and see" for this perk too.
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It's not a bug. It's been confirmed.
Furthermore, this perk is immune to Calm Spirit. Yes, seriously. They don't scream but the killer gets the blip notification and everything.
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The perk wording is "scream AND reveal", so they are independent effects.
If the effects were dependent, they would say something like "scream, WHICH reveals", or "survivors that scream will reveal", or "causes survivors to scream, revealing"
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The locker blocks auras, but it does not block screams.
- The locker "grounds" the survivor so they are not electrocuted by the Doctor's Shock Blast (otherwise you would still gain madness even if the locker prevented your scream).
- The survivor with Scene Partner does not scream while inside a locker and in the killer's terror radius because the survivor cannot "look" in the killer's direction (hence the blindness status effect).
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If hex perks like that became commonplace, I would throw on Counterforce to override the Calm Spirit penalty. (The Calm Spirit penalty should still go, btw.)
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I agree with Coffeecrashing, before this perk if there were two survivors left and one of them is on the hook, there's literally nothing to do for the killer besides camping. I don't think that's fun for anyone. Now it's actually worth for the killer to move away.
Funnily enough, I had seen several matches where the last running survivor managed to successfully go for an unhook while the killer was looking for them with Ultimate Weapon instead of camping. That's especially possible if the killer is a small TR killer like Huntress or Xeno, and they play on a large map.
Also, in general, tracking can be difficult with certain killers unless you set up a 3-gen and camp, and that's again not very fun. I think Ultimate Weapon is decent at organically demotivating everyone from camping.
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I'm not mad. We're talking about balance changes of a perk. If Ultimate Weapon gets changed I think other perks should get changed too. RN I believe ultimate weapon is a decent counter to MFT to prevent endurance heals and quick movement to get that heal by making a survivor second guess their running locations or hiding in a locker near by for a head on etc...
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I disagree about it being irrelevant. I also use calm spirit to counter ultimate Weapon anyways with MFT to pull off cheeky heals. Feels good when pulled off
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I'm sorry but I don't think BHVR is taking actual logic into account for these kinds of things. Besides, if you follow that same logic, then what is so strong about Ultimate Weapon that would make survivors scream even if they're hiding in a locker? The flavor text says "When they SPOT you, they know the end is near", so going based off your logic, they shouldn't be able to spot you at all while inside a locker.
And why would survivors be grounded while inside of a locker, but NOT when they're outside and you know, touching the GROUND??
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If there's 2 survivors left, and the killer wants to find the last survivor, why wouldn't they just down the first one, and go look for the other while leaving the first one on the ground? In the scenario where there's only 2 survivors left, killers have ALL the reason to leave the hook and look for the last survivor, if they do decide on hooking one of them, because you either find the survivor not on the hook, or they go unhook and then you find them both. But if you really want to secure the 4k, you'd be stupid not to slug to find the last survivor, because hooking allows the one on the hook to let themselves be sacrificed and give the hatch to the last person. Slugging them will force them to either be picked up or bleed out over 4 minutes.
Ultimate Weapon having absolutely no counter other than Calm Spirit is incredibly stupid because it ignores the logic of other screaming mechanics. Doctor's blast doesn't make them scream, Scene Partner doesn't make you scream inside a locker, Infectious Fright doesn't even do it, and that requires the killer to down another survivor, and it ONLY works upon downing a survivor, it isn't just active for 30 whole seconds and doesn't make survivors scream the moment they enter your terror radius.
I do not care if it isn't listed as a bug or whatever, it's the inconsistency that frustrates me. Either make lockers not prevent screaming when Doctor blasts or if Infectious Fright/Scene Partner are used, or make Ultimate Weapon not cause survivors in lockers to scream. I honestly couldn't care less if BHVR decided that you shouldn't be immune to screaming in lockers anymore, as long as it's consistent with other perks and mechanics.
Currently the only exception to the whole screaming in lockers thing is Nurse's addon, Anxious Gasp, but that isn't really problematic or inconsistent because it requires the Nurse to blink past the locker you're hiding in, at which point she would have already seen you hiding inside the locker, because she'd see you as she blinked through it.
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You're starting to sound like an extremely entitled killer main with your comments here. Survivors being alerted that Ultimate Weapon revealed you isn't a downside at all, because it doesn't matter if they know you've found them or not, the bottom line is that you have information about where they are, and that massively outweighs any possible "downside" there is of them knowing that you know where they are. And just fyi, I play both sides equally, this original post comes from an unbiased standpoint. It's incredibly unfair to have lockers counter Doctor's Blast and Infectious Fright, but not this perk, especially considering that both of the former are a instant thing, meanwhile Ultimate Weapon is active for a whopping 30s. If anything, Infectious Fright and Doctor's Blast should make survivors in lockers scream, and Ultimate Weapon shouldn't.
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Over time I really began to believe that you rely on hearing more than vision like a bat, for example
I encountered a clown who did not see me even though I was directly in front of him and I was using Bite the Bullet
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There’s no consistency issue, because there isn’t a rule that states lockers are supposed to block screaming. Just because previous perks worked a certain way, doesn’t mean that future perks are required to work the same way.
If anything, all the other screaming mechanics should be reworked to activate on survivors in lockers. That would make you happy right? You would get your “consistency”, which is what you wanted.
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Go back and watch the Q&A streams from 2017. They said the locker grounds the survivor to prevent the shock. 🤷♂️
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The lockers represent Faraday cages (yes, Faraday cages are a real thing).
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