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Remove/Rework perks that counter a handful of perks
Comments
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I dislike the suggestons.
Killers have already a full arsenal and choices at their reach. Calm spirit and distortion just counter some of those Killer's elements. (And they do at expense of other perks slots).
About distortion, I wouldn't care if it start with 1 charger or 3 charges, like they say, it gets its most value to cancel the Purusuer and to just check what aura readings perks or addons is the killer using, (And if killer is not using aura reading, well, a wasted perk). If it happens the perk reaches to be very nerfed, I always can return to the boons, they have the constraint of being only available to one zone, but they are constant (what are really useful against mirror Myers or interior maps).
I've been a Calmed Spirit user for long time, preciselly I disliked a lot the screams caused by the doctor, although it has helped also many times to hide in Iron Maiden lockers, for long time I've been targeted as noob for wasting a perk slot in that perk but now with Alien's new skill "Ultimate Weapon" looks like the calm spirit is becomming more popular now.
So my experience using Calmed Spirit, although it has helped me a lot, is doesn't make me invulnerable, sure it hides my screams, but I still have to complete generators, rescue partners and move through the map, It's very strange that I don't get spotted by the killer in the whole trial, and many times that ended in chases and hooks. (I'm not very good at looping nor I carry looping perks). And more, I've seen many Doctors that took their time to find me, but when they do, they became like really persistant in hooking me. Besides, its electric powers although don't make me scream, it keeps leveling my madnes up, (Some doctors noticed it to know I'm nearby) also they can keep interrupting my ability to drop pallets, jump windows and heal partners. So I'm sure that this perk is not nullifying Doctors.
I don't think the problem were in those perks, but in the killers who rely a lot of info perks. They are useful, but killers should learn to track survivors other ways. Generators patrolling is the easiest way, crows that flies in the distance, scratch marks, visualizing the arena from elevated points... Also there are other ways like Rancor, killer Instinct and other killers's powers.
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Yes. And you always heal within 32m of killer. Because that's intelligent thing to do. Like I said - the perk hard-counters reactive healing (and makes solidarity a lot less useful because it takes time until you can start to heal other teammate)
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You act as if multi level maps dont exist.
Someone going down on the top floor is highly likely to be in 32m range of someone else when it comes to the game /RPD/ haddonfield houses/GOJ house , or just the plain old "healing under hook" strat.
Point is, the 50% still triggers, if you get value out of it its entirely up to you, even just going down normally would "counter reactive healing "
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So it works in some specific cases on some specific maps under some specific occasions. Sounds a lot like distortion that works only if killer has TR and killer does not have too many aura reading perks...
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False equivalency.
Under no pretense will lethal work trough distortion, BBQ is also full hard countered whole match and the only option is to give up extra perk slots just to burn trough tokens in hopes of being able to use your other auras.
CS? Under absolutely no pretense will scream perks work against a CS user. It even actively counters spies.
Point still stands , sloppy doesn't delete healing perks , unlike distortion and CS deleting aura and scream perks.
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No idea if it's an unpopular opinion but I think not being able to counter your opponent's perks would be boring, and I fail to understand why someone would want it (unless of course they only want this for their opponent(s), but surely that's not what's happening here)
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There's a difference between "countering" and "deleting"
Blood echo and fear monger both counter exhaustion perks, but you still get to use them just less often.
On the other hand perks like Calm spirit just outright delete scream based perks.
The latter is fundamentally unhealthy as a "counter"
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I've been using CS and Distortion along with We'll Make It and Botany Knowledge in my invisible healer build for months. Although I always was a trend setter.
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Calm spirit is fine as it is and for the doctor counter part it’s not really a problem in comparison to a perk like adrenaline against Freddy which straight up cancels his entire power in the endgame
Atleast doctor still affects survivors with the madness status whether they’re screaming or not and there’s also HUD status which will inform you whether you attacked a survivor or not
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Genuinely asking, are you aware that calm spirit deletes the screams only ? Like unless I'm not up to date it doesn't delete or counter any perk or power effects besides the scream sound (except for that one Cage perk I think), it doesn't even counter the tracking effect because the scream bubble still reveals the survivor's position. It just means the killer has to look around (like for auras) instead of relying mostly on sound.
Calm spirit doesn't delete any perk effect, it just makes screaming perks more inconvenient to use (and is still a terrible perk).
As for distortion, I think forbidding it to gain tokens while in chase is a bad idea because it would encourage survivors to avoid the killer and play full stealthy. I think making survivors gaining tokens in chase only would actually be a better idea, it means survivors who use it to avoid the killer would be forced to interact with them to get their tokens back.
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Calm spirit deletes the bubble effect, hence fully deleting any scream based perk, like Face the darkness, Infectious fright , UW, etc.
https://youtu.be/AvuLKM1GEQw?si=kI2Js26oiE7Nr2o6&t=12
CS providing full unlimited deletion of all scream based perks + doctors effects is ridiculous.
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How long has this been a thing (or am i just completely misremembering and it was never a thing in the first place)? I used to be an adept Jake Main and played a lot of doctor and I would have literally bet on the fact that the bubble was still showing lmao
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it's false equivalency ONLY because it does not suite your narrative.
The same thing you did in last thread. 250ms is enough time (latency included) to dodge while 400ms is barely enough to destroy a turret.
Anything that suits my needs is fine and everything that does not is some kind of fallacy or something. 100% objective view on things.
More to the topic - it does not counter lethal, because 2s longer still stands - if u use 2+ aura perks, you can eat thru tokens and have longer aura. There. Same "counter" as u can already heal in killer's TR... Similar for BBQ - take mirror meyers and after 3rd hook there's no distortion whasoever. Reminds me of reactive healing and hemorrage. But there's absolutely some kind of fallacy hidden out there ;)
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Doesn't Lightborn also hard counters Residual Manifest and Flashbang?
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Realistically this is an unlikely scenario, yet it's very sad, because it's true, if this happens, you entirely lose progress unless you have medkit or self-care (masochist), this also causes Resurgence to lose some value because afaik healing progress regress during all the unhook animation.
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There's no fun by removing counters, it sounds silly, specially considering Calm Spirit is too situational and while Distortion is quite great but not THAT gamebreaking as people want to try it to sell...
Calm Spirit eliminates the effect of screaming, realistically, this only messes up against Doctor, Ultimate Weapon, Infectious Fright, Face the Darkness and Pain Resonance.
Distortion eliminates the aura reading, which is really powerful, yet, it's very, very variable, first of all, any kind of regen is heavily mitigated by Oblivious or Stealthy, second, some aura reading perks that have little to no cooldown ends up eating tokens, Nurse's Calling and Nowhere to Hide are the perfect example.
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Lethal is fully deleted by Distortion, you CANNOT debate on this.
Bringing Lethal+BBQ is 2 aura perks, and neither will proc on a distortion user because
A - You start with 3 tokens -1 for lethal, so you still get 2 get outta jail free cards for when your TM's get hooked.
B - The token regen is so lenient and so quick (30s in the TR) that you can realistically always have ATLEAST 1 token up for every of the 9 possible BBQ Procs (And yes possible is the right word because if you're within 40m of the hook, you wouldn't lose a token either way).
C - If the kilers only option to get value out of his remaining aura perks(because lethal got deleted straight up) is to bring a THIRD aura perk, then theres an undeniable problem.
D - If it requires a killer that can burn tokens just by pressing M2 for the aura build to be useful, then again, undeniable problem. (Even then, Lethal would get deleted, once again by distortion).
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And in the same token, theres no fun in having your entire build deleted because someone brought the counterperk.
Hence why balance is required.
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Ah. So you ignore what I wrote and just reiterate your non-arguments. Got it. Why do u even discuss at this point?
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Oh I'm sorry calm spirit counters killers constantly abusing ultimate weapon. Which bare in mind effectively has 0 cooldown. It's active for 30s and it's cooldown is 30s. so if you open a locker every 30s ITS ALWAYS ACTIVE.
Calm spirit does NOT counter doctor. Just because someone doesn't scream it still prevents them using an item or performing an action if they are shocked.
Distortion has a MAXIMUM of 3 stacks not 4 so I have no idea where you got that number from. Lethal persuer consumes 1 stack. Eruption consumes 2 stacks if you use lethal, Aliens new addons consume 2 stacks.
Killers complain that distortion/calm spirit/exhaustion perks are crutches.
Can't the same be said for your 1 hit down perks/addons, Aura stacking, Gen regression stacking, Hook camping, Devs holding your hand with bugged fast vaults that count as medium when it comes to your hitbox and bloodlust because you don't want to break a pallet.
Both sides have tools to aid them. Survivors have been hurt a lot more than killers lately when it comes to nerfs. Survivors had the healing speeds completely changed but devs made no changes to your slowdowns on healing meaning it could take almost 3 minutes to heal someone with the correct build.
Please don't cry about a perk if your entire kit relies on you basically having wallhacks or handholding you're playing the game wrong and need to have more variety in your build.
It's supposed to be an asymetrical game. Not a one sided game.
And I'm not even going to go there with the camping hooks, tunnelling and slugging for 4k crap that's going on.
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You know what counters all of them? Literally watching the crows on the maps. ISTG the number of times I've found Blendetets, comp Ace's and Urban Evading Nea's by just watching for crows that fly away or fly back towards an area has been so frikkin sweet *evil laughter* zero perks needed for that ^^ gotta love the snitch crows <3
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It’s no fun walking around the map, and finding zero survivors, because they are all excessively hiding, and they are dodging all the tracking perks the killer brought to that game.
It’s no fun walking from generator to generator, finding zero survivors, because they are all pre leaving generators when their visual terror radius lights up.
Calm spirit literally stops the survivor from alerting crows.
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And it's no fun for survivors constatly being tunnelled while a killer is abusing nurses calling after you just got off hook because they can't follow scratch marks from a gen. Visual terror radius has the EXACT same range as the audible one.
As I said in my previous post if your entire build requires that you basically have wallhacks you're not learning the fundamentals of the game and need handholding to carry you through. It might be a casual game but you're still expected to put some effort in rather than what equates to something a cheater would want.
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that's assuming everyone is using it. No one is using Calm Spirit
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Not everyone is. I've started taking it because killers like to abuse the new Ultimate weapon perk with it's stupid uptime and cooldown being the same.
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Finding survivors is not that hard, chasing is the ordeal, if you are having problems with the first, then run Whispers.
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There's no such thing as abuse Nurse's Calling, that's using the perk.
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It's abusing when you're intentionally going towards the place they were unhooked to tunnel them out don't make excuses for them.
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The lengths yall go and still end up being objectively wrong.
UW triggers once per activation per survivor, if you find someone imediately with UW then it effectively has a 60s cooldown. on the opposite end, if you find someone as UW is running out, you still get a 30s CD. So UW CD is anywhere between 60s to 30s + Walk to locker time.
Distortion has a theoretical INFINITE number of stacks because of the regen mechanic not just 3.
If survivors are getting nerfed harder it literally just indicates they were too strong to begin with, your logic is like claiming that since nurse got nerfed it means trapper is overpowered... which is just ridiculous.
Because the game ISN'T meant to be one sided that is why perks like distortion and Calm Spirit that effectively DELETE another players perks should be looked at.
All in all, Drop the blatantly and horrendously biased arguments.
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A theoretical infinite but with perks like monitor and abuse this can be reduced. Stealth killers remove it completely.
Scratched myers and wraith with iri addon can eat your tokens in seconds and you'll never get them back.
Even a smart skull merchant can stop you getting back tokens by abusing her drones to remove her terror radius.
Doctor has addons to reduce his terror radius while static blast is on cooldown.
There are always ways around distortion. But your entire kit shouldn't be focused around one perk type anyways.
Also UW can trigger several times making the survivor scream it is the blindness effect that only triggers once.
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Constantly? If you know the killer has Nurse’s calling, and likes to go back to a hook, then why are you repeatedly healing near the hook?
And imagine talking about handholding, when distortion and calm spirit are the definition of handholding perks. And imagine talking about being expected to put some effort, but thinking it's ok to excessively hide.
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How would you know they have nurses calling if you're not running distortion and not in a swf., You're completely ignoring the solo queue side of it. You forget not everyone plays in a damn swf or has to resort to camp and tunnell.
You say calm spirit and distortion are handholding. Yet are upset because they literally counter something THAT CHEATERS PAY FOR. and I said nothing about excessively hide. But if someone has a gen 99% or they're healing a teammate some people might want you to actually have to work for a damn kill rather than just tunnelling and crutching on aura perks.
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Cheats are external programs, Perks are not, it's okay to use aura and info perks, if you know how to use wisely, it's not like tunneling is an easy thing to do anyways, considering Off the Record and DS being a thing, you can and will get downed by the killer, the skill of both survivor and killer will determine how worth was the tunnel.
Exactly, being aware of what perks the killer might have is essential, if you get downed and killer has nurses calling, get owned, and if you still try to heal again, well, get owned again.
DbD has stealth elements and requires quite some effort for it.
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And as I said before not everyone is in a swf some of us play solo queue you really should read all of it.
DS just isn't worth running by the time you get moving aftrer activating it the killer is out of stun. It's not like we get a speed boost from being dropped. As for off the record what does that matter. You're just going to have to hit them twice just like if you camp a hook. It doesn't fix the problem it seems more like you're making excuses for it.
Also near the hook? Have you any idea what 32m equates to in game. It's a lot of area since it's within 32m of your character in 360. Not to mention getting that far from a hook when you're against someone that tunnels is easier said than done.
Also if the only thing you can do is be childish and resort to saying "get owned" I'm clearly wasting my time even talking to you.
and FYI DBD has stealth elements that without perks like Distortion/calm spirit ARE POINTLESS because you essentially have wallhacks.
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Lethal and BBQ is already 2 perks, 50% of a loadout prone to being deleted by Distortion just existing, if I have to equip a THIRD aura perk just to burn trough tokens, or play a specific killer to once again burn trough tokens, then the perk isn't healthy.
Monitor and abuse is quite frankly, a horrible perk so we're not even going to consider that.
And again, UW triggers once per survivor per activation.
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Yet nowhere to hide literally has no cooldown
Most info perks on killer don't have a cooldown. But you're complaining about 2 perks that counter because people want to crutch their build so heavily on constantly knowing survivors locations at all times.
If there weren't counters in the game it wouldn't be asymetrical. But I guess you just want survivors to go point at hook for you.
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Nowhere to hide is literally tied to gens... no gen progress = no NWTH, kicked the gen already? can't use NWTH.
Perks dont need a physical timer to have a "cooldown", BBQ's cooldown is the chase+hook, NWTH is tied to gens, Awakened awareness tied to chase+Pickups , SH:Floods tied to hooking+Unhooking.
Dont be disengenous trying to claim "killer perks have no cooldowns" and reduce the ad hominems in your arguments.
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Calm Spirit doesn't counter Doctors whole kit. It stops the screaming only, it still applies madness. Likewise with Ultimate Weapon, it only stops the screaming but still applies blindness.
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