Why a closed Hatch needs to Spawn when there are only 2 players left, instead of current mechanic
First off the randomized location of a open hatch when there is 1 player left is extremely unfair for a killer. I don't know how many times I've gotten 11/12 hooks and decided to sacrifice the 2nd to last player, ( because I don't want to drag the game out by slugging). Then the survivor escapes.
This is because the current hatch is literal a 50% instant win for the survivor/ lose for the the killer. But not only that, even if you win the coin tose odds they now get another chance to escape out the doors.
So it boils into a slugging fest for the last two survivors.
However if it spawned back when there were two players left at least it eliminates that 50% win/lose plus door run.
The old DBD had this mechanic and it was fun running to the hatch as quick as possible because you both knew where it was, instead of the coin toss pure luck of the hatch mechanic.
Comments
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Why do you need the last survivor again? Hatch is the least of your RNG concerns when maps with RNG pallets and tiles exist.
It honestly comes out a little entitled of you. If you care that much about the 4k then slug, I don't understand why you need a free kill. You have way more control for when hatch opens than the survivors do. You also get favored when doors spawn close to each other, but I don't see killer mains complain about that situation ever.
With your proposal you just made redundant all those hatch aura perks. Also what stops you from slugging in that case as well to deny hatch and door. Only the goodwill of the killer stops that,
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I'm in 2 minds about this... a closed hatch with 2 players left does help mitigate the "3 gens left, 3rd player slugged, you're postponing the inevitable problem".
This is a problem to solve, but I think you get bigger issues that comes from it.
For the positive side:
Keys are not commonly brought, so something to encourage more item diversity is not a bad thing... and getting a broken key in a chest is just funny, no matter how you slice it. So I don't think it'd change the game drastically...
If added that a closed hatch could be revealed at 2 players, and opened automatically at 1... that does give 2 survivor teams an objective to play around when the game is lost...
For the negatives:
However... there are Adepts... and these are already sometimes really tough to get, and there are a lot of tome entries that are also really tough to get.
The hatch is a 50/50 spawn, the Killer's managed to get where they are winning (hopefully without tunneling and camping).... only so hatch can snatch it away. Allowing Survivors to get pit sooner is a plain slap in the face.
The only way I can see this being fair is if the Killer has basekit Left Behind. That gives the killer can find it easier, and has multiple objectives to defend and play around if he knows the survivor brought a key. Then make it so 1 and ONLY 1 survivor can escape through hatch...
However now you have problem do you trigger EGC or not? If not the last survivor can hide and not try to escape. If you do, you make this really unfair as the killer vs. SWF bevause they can hide at a gate, open the hatch and escape, and the Killer now has to 50/50 guess the gate.
So I think this is likely to cause way more issues than it solves.
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All I'm gonna say is that we had it before, we don't need it again
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Its still largely in the killer's favor, you move faster you don't have to hide from anything while searching.
The choice to hunt for hatch and risk a gate escape is rather balanced, I have this auto get out but I have to find it while moving slower and more vulnerable. Can I risk waiting out by a gate and getting out that way if I can.
In its current form the gameplay is pretty good if you think about it.
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That would make left for dead even more difficult(if not impossible unless the kiler is generous) than it already is
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Ahem...
"Oh look a key... do it after me dwight"
*jump
*jump
*Trial ends
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I would go as far as to fully re-implementing the pre-Mikaela patch hatch. It gives hope to losing Survivors to continue to pump gens rather than hold the game hostage (not touch gens for 10+ minutes) waiting for each other to die. It also allows for a built-in counter to hard tunneling someone out early, or camping a 3-gen from the onset. It also still counts as a Killer win (as 1k + 3 ties/hatch escapes is + 0 0 0, so still net positive, so the Killer 'won' even if it doesn't feel like it), so there is no reason to complain with a 3 out.
This isn't too difficult if you seek out the Killer (as the final Survivor), drop any item, and point at a gen. I'd say at worst it would take 1/10 Killers to be nice enough to let you pop the gen(s), and you being the final Surv is roughly 1/4, so together that would roughly take 40 matches at the most, and can be done while progressing other achievements at the same time (unlike Myers stalks or Huntress snipes). Some Killers will assume you have a gen tome and are fine with just afk-ing and watching a youtube vid in the meantime.
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So 2 survivors can get out with keys? Old hatch was comparable to old ebony mori in terms of unfun. Bringing in a key and putting it down in shack or anywhere and letting your team know to counter franklins and on first kill all 3 getting out was awful. This sounds the same but instead of 3 getting out it's 2.
I'm very confused because your wording seems to imply this will be a buff for killers but I promise you it won't be. Unless you also have some rework for how hatch functions it will result in 2 escapes easily. Just like old hatch resulted in multiple escapes easily.
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Tried that method a few times and only these three things happened they down me and put me on hook, down me and try to get me to use the hatch or they close the hatch I assume the majority of killer players don't know about that achievement so I don't get mad at them whenever it happens I wish they reworked the achievement to escape via opening the gates as last man during egc or something because this achievement is a major pain lol
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It's a roll of the dice, I'll give you that. The alternative is go in a SWF and purposely 99 the last gen, then everyone else gets the Killer to plop them on hook. You pop the final gen with Low Profile, Wake Up and/or Sole Survivor, and you got a stew a goin'.
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Win/loss is essentially broken down into how MMR functions. For a killer, 1 kill is a loss. MMR goes down if you only get 1 and 3 get out. 2 is a draw, MMR doesn't change. 3 or 4 kills, your MMR goes up, that's a win. Significantly harder for a surv to get a win. For a surv, MMR goes down if they fail to escape(thats a loss). Exiting via hatch is a draw, MMR stays the same. The only way the game considers it a win for a surv is if they leave directly through an exit gate. So the game having a final "draw" attempt for the last man standing, should absolutely not be taken away. And let's be serious, if you're already slugging to prevent them from getting hatch, you'll do it even if it spawns at 2 survs. Because then not only you, but the survs know where it is as well, and they have keys to open with. And because you'd want to prevent them from using a key to open, you'd just end up slugging after 1 is dead instead of 2.
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This is because the current hatch is literal a 50% instant win for the survivor/ lose for the the killer. But not only that, even if you win the coin tose odds they now get another chance to escape out the doors.
That's the whole point.
The final survivor has to have a fair shot of escaping that is disconnected to the state of the game until that point, a 'sudden death' mechanic if you will.
Because if they don't, then that means the game is already over at 2 survivors without all gens repaired, because the killer will find and down one of them, and secure that kill. If the final survivor in this scenario doesn't have a chance, then there isn't even any point in trying to be that final survivor, the last two survivors may as well just give up there and then.
If the last 2 survivors give up, then every 2K game becomes and automatic 4K game. Kill rates skyrocket, which leads to massive killer nerfs, to ensure that a 2K (and by extension 4K) has a roughly 50% chance of occurring.
A 3K is still a win for the killer, and a 50/50 shot at turning a 3K into a 4K is more than fair.
For Adepts, if you can 3K once, you can 3K again, and if you can 3K multiple times then it's only a matter of time until you get the 4K.
4K's, and 0K's for that matter, should be extreme scenarios, not the norm.
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A fellow Veteran I see.
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No. Hook the third and let the last survivor have a fair shot, or if you desperately need it for a challenge or something, just slug. We don't need hatch appearing early ever again.
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Ok. But I dont want to read a complaint from you when two Survivors escape via Hatch.
On a more serious note - the Killer has the advantage to finding the Hatch. They are faster and dont need to hide. The Survivor basically can only get lucky. And some people are really focussing on the 4K way too much. If you kill 3 Survivors, especially with 11 Hooks, you clearly won. Even if the last person escapes via Hatch.
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Think of the lives of survivors as the only 4 points that matter. There is no more game after 3 kills or 3 escapes, because that scores 3 out of 4 available points. The hatch is a consolation mechanic and it's not critical to change it atm
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I dont remember the last time I had to look for a hatch, seems to always spawn at someone's feet... it needs to change in some way, whether it goes back to spawning at 2 with its pros and cons, or something like a timer where after it spawns it doesn't open immediately (unless you have a key). Idk about you guys but im tired of having my final teammate hiding in lockers until I die, or slugging someone for 10 minutes while I search every locker on a map...
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