Alien nerf is a message, play Nurse/Blight/Wesker instead
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Same.
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To be fair, in one of the threads where a dev dropped by, there were loud (and fair) complaints about the feedback of the tail and how it seemed to not match the visual. That was fixed, and the tail stopped being clunky. Sadly there was 1 or 2 people who also wanted to be punished less for using the tail, and I think they were listened too, and that's why it got raised to 2.0.
I think this doesn't understand the majority of the playerbase. Most people play both sides, with the side being played more being their 'main', even if it is only a 49/51, 45/55, or 40/60 split. There are 2 large reasons why some people play Survivor as much as they do, even if soloq is so miserable.
The first is the role incentive, as it tends to be almost always be on Survivor (at least from my experience and asking friends). Weekend evenings is probably the only time it is Killer sided, because the 'no-lifes' are finally playing with their friends after not having time during the week.
The second reason is the tomes. Most Survivor tomes are throw fests, and the Killer sided ones are easy in comparison. This makes people have to spend 3-4 times longer to complete the Survivor tomes, which would fit in the playtime of both sides quite well, but doesn't make it enjoyable. Look at the 16-4 openers for Survivor and Killer. Each need 3 Iri grades in a specific category, Malicious for Killer, and Unbroken for Survivor. Iri Malicious can easily be done by getting at least 11 hook actions (a normal win, at least for me), with some buffer room for 4 less hook actions if you still get the 4k. This can even be done with the common 8 hook actions toggle tunneling by hooking Survivor A/B/A/B/A/B/C/D. Survivor on the other hand needs to escape without entering the dying state once, not unhooked, but undowned. So even if you get pallet saved and never got hooked, it doesn't count, gg go next.
Looking at some content creators, both Otzdarva and Scott Jund are Killer mains while playing both sides extensively, although Otz advocates slightly more for Killer and Scott advocates slightly more for Survivor (with both still advocating for both sides overall). Both reasons are probably due to how they experience each role largely. Otz goes for streaks and therefore feels the pain of sweat squads as Killer more extensively (since 1 loss ruins your day, instead of going 'oh well, that's only 1 in 20 matches'), whereas Scott's Survivor experience is near exclusively soloq, which clearly needs help as well.
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BVHR likes to make survivors feel like they are really good vs the killer and that they are outplaying the killer with turrets. hopefully survivor is less complacent towards playing against xeno.
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Didn't you complain about overchargein other discussions?, why cant you argument be use there, its not the games or killers fault you cannot hit overcharge and many people find it very easy to hit so its an ok perk to have and does not deserve a change, by your previously used logic.
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Turrets have the same feeling as the emps for me personally. It's not the greatest feeling playing a killer whose power can be just easily removed by the survivors. To turrets' credit at least they require time unlike emps but the feeling is still there. In a lot of my matches as xeno I have seen a good bit of double turret placements and it felt like it didnt impact gen times at all so I really dont know how big of an impact the time investment to set up turrets has. I think it boils down tho that a lot of ppl dont really like the feeling of survivors having the power to remove their power so easily. At the end of the day, I personally dont mind turrets all that much but I can understand why ppl feel the way they do about them. My only fear is if survivors complain enough about the turrets they buff them and they end up being the same level as emps, if that happens I know I will never play xeno again bc emps is the sole reason I dont play Hux.
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Overcharge is poor design (specifically with SM is another matter) because it exemplifies the OG Ruin design.
It's absurdly punishing to new players since there is no cooldown, it can be applied infinitely and the punishment for missing an admittedly difficult skill check is severe. However, to more veteran players after the first Overcharge, it's USUALLY easy to hit. You can still be screwed over via bad RNG, but those players will generally hit the skill check making the perk nearly useless on its own.
That's why I want it changed.
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I think this system would be good if implemented like DC bans, if you back out of lobbies too much it removes the Prestige visuals for the next match. If the person immediately backs out again once Prestige visual is re-implemented, then it escalates the Prestige hidden duration for an hour then day, and so on.
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Too me though, that's kind of the same feeling I get as survivor when playing against killers with anti loop abilities. It feels like the only ability I have to fight back is taken away. Over the years pallets have been lessened, many loops made more unsafe, and then they started throwing in anti loop mechanics. So going against against something like Xeno, punishes you for looping, vaulting, or even just dropping the pallets. It also removes any ability to gain points from pallet stuns.
This is why I think the turrets and EMP's are needed. At least it makes it some what equal. It takes survivors off gens for a few seconds while also allowing the possibility of removing the anti looping mechanic for a few moments. Some what of a trade back and forth.
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Kinda tired of this rhetoric that seems to imply there's literally zero skill involved in playing survivor meanwhile playing killer is the ultimate skill expression only truly high IQ people can master (they ask you to win a killer game when evaluating whether you're suitable to be a member of Mensa)
They both require a good set of skills, especially at higher level, and when people make comments like yours somehow I tend to assume they're not really that expert at the game, on either roles
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Tell me how I'm wrong. The math is sound and numbers don't lie.
I don't see what the laws of physics have to do with this in particular. Nurse is broken, if that's what you want to hear. But that has nothing to do with Xenomorph.
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I'm largely fine with the changes made to Xeno, but I will also say I've had a bunch of egregious missed should-have-been-hits tail attacks the past couple of days. I don't have saved video, but really bad.
It seems like the hitbox got smaller or collision with objects has gone really wonky.
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3.600 hours since Oct 2021. I think I am a little bit capable of seeing how Survivor- and Killer-Games have changed over the last 2 years.
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You say take survivors off gens for a few secs but emps and even turrets imo doesnt feel like it slows survivors down at all. Gens still feel just as fast as always and these "tools" dont really require all that much time to get/setup. EMPs esp since the painters make them automatic and require no input from suvivors to get them. This way I always wanted them to make it where the painters only go up to 70% and make survivors have to finish the last 30% to get the emp. That's why it actually offers a real slowdown. There is a reason why you dont see hardly any Huxs and emps is a huge part of that reason. As I said Turrets at least is not as bad as emps since they do require some time to set up even tho I feel that setup time honestly doesnt have that huge of an impact on gen speeds at all.
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I'm also getting missed tail attacks that go right through the survivor, the tail attack feels like it's trying as hard as possible to collide with the environment, and the camera lock is so bad that I can't adjust the tail attack if the survivor micro dodges to the left or right.
I'm officially giving up on this killer. I'm not putting up with turrets when this killer's attack power is worse than a Nemesis whip.
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What nerfs? The patch notes listed mostly buffs to an already oppressive killer.
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Are you reading the right patch notes buddy?
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What buffs?
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Apparently not, because I can't find what buffs I thought were buffs again, lol.
I retract my statement.
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I don't really play hux so I can't speak much on what it's like going against EMP's. There is a fine line between making them take too long to grab vs not long enough. The 70% would be cool to see and maybe make adjustments after that. Playing against hux I never felt it was time consuming to grab and emp and that is an issue.
I was just comparing what it feels like to losing power the power. To me it feels the same when I can't use pallets or other resources like I normally can.
As far as turrets go, since I've bought Xenomorph, I can't really tell the turrets do anything. Occasionally they knock me out of power but most of the time I'm able to destroy them beforehand. They don't feel unbalanced though. Even when Im setting them up.
I'm afraid gens are going to keep feeling fast unless something major is changed. When I play survivor it feels like if one or two people aren't on gens early then we lose most of the time. When I play killer, if I play nice they seem to fly by.
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If you ignore the turret, the survivor will go to their most practiced loop object and you can't hit over it, through its pallets , or over its vaults, so you have to M1 style chase or leave.
If you stop to tail the turret you cooldown and they get space to do with as they want.
I think the turrets are very cool like this. Alien's power on the other hand, needs something.
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If you think this nerf makes the killer unplayable I think you might need to rethink your definition of weak killers.
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Did I mention the map vision issue with this killer?
Maybe I forgot to say:
He's like a foot tall in runner mode.
I can't see a ****** thing on maps like swamp or temple, because those bushes are over his head.
remember that equity and fence cartoon?
Thats how it feels.
Which is bad, in case I wasn't clear.
Also Dead dog ... it has those bushes.
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I have read your arguments before about oc, however my point is you play a double standar with your arguments, the same justification you gave for overcharge being too punishing to newer players could be applied to xeno, each time someone complains saying they fail tail attacks your reply is for them to get better, however you fail to use this same line of tought for things like overcharge, hell I agree with this xeno nerf, he needed it but honestly be consistent with critisims either everyone has to get good or none has to.
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People saying nobody asked for some sort of change to the tail attack during the ptb weren't paying attention.
A lot of people said the tail felt bad and very sluggish on a miss. People were more asking for a slight buff on the cool down but instead we got the movement speed buff. Regardless it's a complete fabrication to say nobody said anything about it.
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Alien remains extremely viable, and her addons are just as broken.
This is getting radicicolous if you honestly are struggling with Alien legitimately that's on you.
Seriously where was the outrage when they buffed her from the PTB? She was very popular in the PTB and they buffed her honestly for no reason. We saw the results was she was too strong they reverted it...
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There's a difference between unfair and needing to practice.
Even if you have no ability to land out in the open Tail Hits; windows, pallets and other animation locks are free hits. Likewise, you are still able to progress the match. Heck, even good Xeno's use the Tail to zone and try to force a greed. Point being, you have agency, you have options even if you aren't able to get the hang of the power.
Completely different from the Overcharge example. A better example would be the beginner Survivor gameplay which is ABSURDLY Killer-sided. That's a case of needing more time to learn.
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Many windows, pallets, and other animation locks aren't free hits, because many of those scenarios involves a sharp turn.
Xeno's M2 camera lock (for turning on the X-axis) is so bad that it can't handle sharp turns, and the M2 tries so hard to collide with the environment, that many of the sharp angles won't be reliable. And Xeno can't correct their M2 if the survivor micro dodges left or right. And even if Xeno does everything correct, ever since the latest patch, Xeno's M2 will sometimes just go directly through a survivor without hitting them.
This killer isn't worth playing anymore. It's so much easier hitting a survivor with a Nemesis whip, and I'd rather deal with the "Nemesis sometimes needs to hit 3 times" M2, than the "Xeno can literally lose their M2" M2.
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God forbid they add some counterplay. You'll always have solo q and match making to make you feel viable.
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Hits/Misses like this happen all the time on both sides, you just have to deal with it.
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And once again back to the " Why do I only play against nurse,blight,wesker" threats. It was fun while it lasted
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Or we could just switch to a killer that has a reliable hitbox on their M2 power. "Just deal with it" sounds like a bad option, when we could just play a killer where we don't need to "just deal with it".
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This forum has really become a cesspool.. yall rlly need to take a break and breathe
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I think pulser just feels sorry for survivors and thinks they should have it easier than killers. It most likely has to do with the fact he finds killers way too easily and thinks everyone is at the same skill level as the killer as he is. I never once see him defend killer esp when it comes to new killers on this forum and honestly, every interaction I ever have with the dude he comes off as some elitest comp player who thinks ppl can get on his level play overnight. He wants to baby survivors while also punishing killers even if they are new to the game. As you said when it comes to killer stuff his line of thinking is "get better" but when it comes to a survivor it is "this thing needs to be changed so it doesnt punish new survivor players".
I competely agree with you on this point also. I found learning and getting hits with nemmy whip so much easier then xeno's tail. At least with nemmy whip if it hits something it doesnt competely stop the hitbox and you can drag it a lot easier. So many times I try to get those so-called "free hits" on xeno only to miss bc I need to around a counter and by the time I do that the survivor it free from the lock and can move again.
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You should check the thread again.
I was the first person to say that I thought his tail attack was bugged due to my own experiences. Clearly, I'm an elitist who favors Survivors.
Post edited by Pulsar on4 -
Nemesis being able to drag the whip left/right, is far more valuable than Xeno being able to drag the tail up/down.
For starters, dragging Xeno’s tail doesn’t actually do anything useful, because it doesn’t “curve” the attack. Xeno could get the exact same hits by just aiming the tail properly in the first place, instead of purposely aiming incorrectly and dragging the tail.
The Nemesis whip being able to drag left/right is far more valuable, because Nemesis can move the hitbox left/right if the survivor tries to dodge it by move left/right. And yes, the whip prioritizing survivors over the environment is a huge benefit, that Xeno’s tail doesn’t have. I don’t need to line up the perfect angle with the Nemesis whip, because the whip wants to hit survivors. But if I don’t line up the perfect angle with Xeno’s tail, then the attack fizzles out because the tail wants to collide with the environment.
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Another huge benefit nemmy has over xeno is breaking pallets with his whip. If you at a pallet and miss the survivor at least you break the pallet(as long as you in tier 2) but with xeno you get nothing at pallets if you miss other than a slowdown for missing. That's why I didnt think the 2.0 m/s slowdown was that big if a deal since xeno cant break pallets with his attack like nemmy. At this point, I personally think nemmy is better than xeno. All xeno has over nemmy is map travel but who cares about that if your primary way to injury survivors is so inconsistent?
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Can you not drag the tail left/right?
I'm pretty sure I've been dragging it left/right
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I was in this thread looking for the dev comment in regards to op and it was something TOTALLY UNRELATED.
I'm not gonna lie this is why I didn't buy Alien or any other killer for many years if it's not shards. I learned my lesson with Freddy.
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you will find a complaint about every killer either way.
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Absolutely. I knew it would get nerfed the moment I saw survivors complaining about it, even if it was really balanced on release. In this game you only need a few survivors to complain about a killer and it gets nerfed, yet killers can spend months complaining about a survivor perk and BHVR does nothign about it... But it's a survivor sided game, you can't pretend to be surprised
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I haven't done any real testing with it but I think it seems like there is a small window to adjust left and right before it locks down. However I was able to use that window to correct a couple of hits.
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Sadly this is something I learned fairly early on in this game. killers only win if survivors make mistakes (or you the killer is way too good)
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It doesn't work anywhere near as well as Nemesis, and Xeno's tail feels like it just wants to fizzle if I try doing anything special with the attack. I think dragging left/right can turn a missed attack into a "collides with the environment" attack, but that doesn't help Xeno hit a survivor. If Xeno is required to move left/right at all, it just feels like the Xeno's tail is a waste of time, because the tail attack will probably just fizzle even if the animations show it going directly through the survivor.
Remember the Nemesis has a much wider M2 hitbox, drags left/right better, and doesn't want to just fizzle at the slightest inconvenience. And the Nemesis M2 can work on angles that Xeno's M2 can't work at, because currently Xeno's attack feels like it requires there to be zero environmental items in the attack's path, regardless if the survivor is in front of the environmental items. But I can slap a pallet with a Nemesis whip, even at a sharp angle, because even though their are environmental items in the M2 path, the Nemesis whip still wants to actually hit survivors or pallets.
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on0 -
So pretty much like Nemesis. A small lingering hitbox.
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Oh I don't own Nemesis but it sounds kind of like it. It's kind of right at the beginning of pressing the tail attack but feels like decent time for a quick adjustment. It doesn't seem to be as forgiving as the up and down swipe though.
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So do you think turrets were intended to be ignored? OR what is the point?
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Idk man, I've hit iri 1 several times playing reason bs I think up and multiple of those times I didn't even have all perks unlocked so from my pov you can play only meta stuff and be more salty than the ocean or you can play "fun" killers and just know that you'll loose sometimes. I have been curbstomped by swf's but I don't care that much cause while I still lose and survivors are pretty toxic sometimes I'm loosing by playing what I want and how I want. I'm not immune to malding but I'm not about to complain about something like MfT or DH(prenerf) even when every survivor was running CoH and DH I just played how I felt like and I still hit Iri 1. If I can just play random bs with CoH and DH without any real toxicity then I'm sure everyone else can still play Xeno without whining. Is the meta gonna change? Yeah, obviously. Does it matter? Only if you are a metaslave and only play what is "S-tier! Broken! OP!". And in that case I pity that you can't enjoy a Video Game due to your lack of freewill and imagination.
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Sorry to quote you twice, I played a few games to try it. When you press the button and the tail starts to pull back, you pretty much have full range of motion. Once it starts going forward it seems to lock in place with some up and down movement.
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I find a good way to buff Hux is emps not complete printing, but requires extra 6-8sec to tap and get emps (then he has an extra minute than the current state). I believe emps is there as basekit slowdown for him, only the slowdown is barely exist because of complete printing.
For turret I think they only need to make each turret station only spawn 1 turret per min. Because I find in 3 Gens situation (survivors cause it), they just can keep get multiple turret at the same station, making Alien no power.
We need killers that not oppressive in chase but with base slowdown. Longer chase is fun for survivors, and longer objective is better for killer.
Its only up to them to balance between the chase strength and basekit slowdown.
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Can't be too much basekit slowdown, else you get stuff like Pinhead.
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