Xeno is still A tier killer
Nothing actually changed about him.
The only difference than before, now missing hits is actually punishing him.
And there is nothing wrong with that. If survivor outplayed you and played better than you, then you should be punished. Simple.
All killers, even the strongest 2 ( Blight and Nurse ) are getting punishment for missing power hits. Xeno is not different.
Except punishment for missing hits, he is still same killer we got. If you are getting slowdown so much, then you are missing so much hits. That's not killer's problem, it's on the player.
Comments
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A-tier might be questionable. B-tier for sure. But A-tier is a bit much when Xeno has to compete with the likes of Huntress, Oni and Plague.
The way I see it, Xenomorph is dangerously close to becoming a Singularity 2.0. A killer, that can be quite strong, if you're good enough with it. But so hard to play, that you could just play a different killer and get better results. On top of that, it doesn't feel great trying and learn a killer that is incredibly punishing for even the smallest imperfections. So you have even more reason to pick a different killer.
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I disagree. A tier killers for me are Killers that are strong in full meaning. They can fight back againts competent Survivors and even teams and have good chance of winning even when odds are againts them. Their base kit is strong enough they don't need add-ons to be good.
Xeno is now more like Nemesis with trade offs. Nemesis has better tail overall, more range that also later in game is even bigger, zombies that can give info and occupy sometimes Survivor or even give you free hit in rare cases and can deal with loops pretty fast once tier 2 is online. However, he needs to infect you (3 health states) and he has no map mobility. Xeno has map mobility but can be sometimes turned into M1 and his tail is overall bit weaker.
Is Nemesis A tier Killer? I think most people would say No. He is good, but not that good. Without that cooldown, he was strong because his tail was better than Nemesis, now it's not anymore the case, so he drops to B on my list. The difference between the realese version and the currect one is very noticible, bugged or not, he was stronger.
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What about punishing console players who have a mechanical handicap and not a skill handicap?
PC players can just click on what they want to kill and it dies, see Huntress/Nurse/Trickster/Deathslinger.
Console players have to fight against joystick unsensitivity and will miss the majority of M2's.
PC players aren't going to be affected because they land all their hits anyway, 50% reduction on zero missed hit slowdown is still zero missed hit slowdown.
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Well i am with you guys, console players deserves better controller. Game need to offer better gameplay for console players.
But we can't buff killers for consoles sadly. If we start to do that, we will need to buff killers like Nurse as well.
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Except it's not just missing hits it's destroying turrets as well.
Between the nerf and prerunning which was already strong against them it takes Xeno ages to catch up to a survivor when coming out of a tunnel. It's delusional to call Xeno still A tier at this point.
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If the criteria for Xeno to be A-tier is "never miss" then Huntress is S-tier and above Nurse. You are going to expectedly miss occasionally and now you're being punished more for it. Removing their reliability has definitely shifted Xeno's placement.
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I think they need to fix the tail attack, whatever is going on with it. I'm perfectly happy with the changes but I hit directly through several people last night and it didn't register. It could be some kind of latency thing I guess It's like getting hit by the killer after I've fully vaulted and started running.
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Xeno has definitely changed from what I've heard.
Nobody's perfect. People will miss attacks.
Still A tier but probably rather bottom A now.
Also, regarding the "if you make mistakes, you are supposed to be punished" part. Why do so many perks on survivor right now get rewarded for mistakes?
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The tail attack itself is now unreliable. Something was done to the hitbox, or with the camera lock, or with something, because I'm missing attacks that look like they would have connected before the patch.
And unreliable killer powers knocks Xeno down to B tier. I'm not putting up with turrets, if the killer power is more difficult to hit with than a Nemesis whip. I'd rather have a very reliable Nemesis whip, that sometimes needs to hit 3 times... than an unreliable Xeno tail, that's not worth using if the survivor is making any sort of left/right/turning movement at all.
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on8 -
So what changes besides making the missed attacks slow Xenomorph down (which was a bug fix) did the devs make?
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The thing is: we don't know. If they only rolled back Xeno to its PTB version no one would bat an eye. According to the documentation they went two extra steps, made turrets stronger by making them more generousl to place down and not only implemented the tail slow down that was by working before, but also increased the penalty further.
If that was the case, there would be grumbling, but in the end killers would just play with a more fair, slightly "nerfed" version. But many players, myself included, experience a far steeper performance drop, missing shots that telegraph as clear hits and survivors easily dodging 8 tail strikes in a row.
BHVR probably did some tail code optimisation that scrambled something up. I actually expect that they will clear this up Monday or Tuesday, as the Alien is not behaving like it should, but people all over are overreacting: one side claiming that Xeno is now trashtier and shall never be touched again, and the other side coming down hard via "now you see how boosted you were! You deserve this misses! ". I think most people don't realize that the tail code got busted up in the update. At least I hope so. If not and I am wrong with this assessment: RIP Xenos
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Good to see you back, Aku. Thanks for sharing those details.
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Xeno is definitely A tier, the map traversal alone is very strong and having the tail always threaten a vault/pallet drop is extremely good.
However my pet peeve is that instead of just fixing the no slowdown bug, they went ahead and fixed the bug + nerfed it from 2ms to 1.2ms.
Nobody even had time to "test" the 2ms as intended.
Tbh, i feel like if atleast LANDING the hit granted you the 2ms or a faster recovery it would encourage skilled play opposed to forcing the tail into just anti loop.
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Awwww, thanks :) Lets not dwell on the past, it shall never happen again. Instead leads try to discuss away and find out whats wrong with poor Xenomorph!
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I have started to see Survivor teams start to actually use turrets effectively, to chain around loops to pretty much any your power the whole game.
It's not as bad as singularity as setting them up still requires a time sink by survivors, but it really won't be long before people get better at shutting down tiles, and actually setting turrets up. It can be pretty miserable if they know what they are doing and the changes however needed make that 100% worse.
It was nice having a killer that wasn't overly punishing and exportable by bully squads that isnt blight or wesker, which is a shame.
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I promise you it’s not as simple as “click what you want and it dies”.
PC does not automatically make you good. There are tons of terrible pc players, just like there are tons of good console players.
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That's true but good PC player will always have advantage against good console player.
But this is same for all PvP games. PC players will always have advantage. Nature of gaming.
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At least this statement of yours I can fully support.
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There were issues with turret placements (on RPD you basically couldn’t put them anywhere besides the main atrium/room) being super limited. That definitely needed fixing. Idk about the tail besides it not cooling down following an attack though. I know it was said they have fixed that issue, which was something they acknowledged as an unintended bug.
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Map traversal mean nothing if your time to down is bad. fready, legion, dredge, etc can all get around the map fast and none of them are crazy good. The bulk of your time is spent catching a survivor while looping not getting to areas. His anti loop still strong but i wouldn't call A tier just yet.
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BTW, I never understood why Freddy was considered a map traversal killer. Yes, he can teleport to a gen once in a while, but thats no major part of his kit, its not like Demogorgon or Dredge, where he is all over the place, but every couple of minutes he can try a teleport. It feels like a relic of a forgotten time, when things were much different.
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good point
He can't even teleport that often and the teleport super slow giving survivors plenty of time to just leave
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Legion can't get around the map fast normally. If you spend the normal Frenzy going 5.2 for 10s, you only gain 6m. The fatigue slows you down to 2.07m/s for 3s, losing 7.59m of distance. Even with Mischief List, with 12s, you only gain 7.2m. Technically you can lunge at the last second to go net positive, but then you are down your power if they are healthy. Technically this is good if you are going for a corner gen that you know you'll have the injured Survivor cornered in, but it most often loses you distance/time, especially if they have medkits with 99'd heals and they catch on to Frenzy for Mobility.
Clown is slightly better at power for Mobility (with exclusive Yellow Bottles) than Legion, as the fatigue equivalent, the reload, isn't required. You can pressure the gen, then take the reload when they are cornered, and cancel early to get a free hit if they try to hold W instead. Clown also gets 9.2m of distance with the basekit 4 Yellow bottles with ~9m lost in a reload (without Yellow duration, extra bottle, or reload adjusting add-ons).
TL:DR Clown is better at map mobility than Legion, and add-ons shift it further into Clown's favor.
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Well you clearly know all the exact numbers so I'll take your word for it.
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I just wish the movement speed penalty didn't apply to destroying turrets. Right now hitting turrets with your tail loses you so much distance and you often have to do that multiple times per chase.
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