Nurse - how is this still in this state?

Been playing for a while this weekend and i faced few nurses.

1st case:

SWF surv team with 8.5k, 6.5k (me), 3.5k and 2k hours against nurse with around 350 hours - surviviors lost.

2nd case:

SWF surv team with 8.5k, 6.5k, 3.5k and 1k hours against nurse with around 200 hours - surviviors lost.

3rd case:

SWF surv team with 8k, 6.5k, 2k and 500 hours against nurse with around 280 hours - surviviors lost.


How comes 300 hours player is being able to defeat 4 players with 20 000 hours together?

It's only possible on DBD! Why are you letting such character to still be in a game on this state?

Comments

  • OnryosTapeRentals
    OnryosTapeRentals Member Posts: 532

    I think they just don’t know what to do with her. I used to be a Nurse main for ~6 years and I honestly have no idea what they could do with her.

    Every rework suggestion I’ve seen for her falls into one of two categories:

    • Completely kills her and alienates her existing players. This also makes the strongest killer in the game Blight — a DLC character — which would cause P2W accusations to skyrocket.
    • Does nothing to address what makes her so oppressive.
  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 1,605
    edited September 2023

    Nurse is fascinatingly unique... and one of the biggest oddities is her performance spike at high level vs. low level. She is embaressingly bad in low MMR, but extremely strong at high MMR... and you get every point in between...

    Though I'm still a new by DBD standards player, IMO it's not hard to see where the problem of high MMR Nurse lies... it's as simple as she can blink on top of the place where she thinks the survivor is, then blink again to secure the hit. With good knowledge of maps and loops, knowing when to blink, the onus is entirely on Nurse to miss that second blink, and once that skill is mastered, survivors don't have much wiggle room to outplay her.

    This however is not at all an easy thing to address... without the second blink, her 3.85 m/s is far too punishing... so you'd have to make her the speed of a normal M1 killer... which totally destroys her identity and even makes her pretty damned bad... there is a reason why the Matchbox and Spasmodic Breath add-ons are among her worst add-ons...

    If you try and limit the second blink somehow you run a great risk of killing her... if you make her missing even more punishing, you run the risk of creating Billy 2.0, where she is too hard to play, and not good enough to warrant the time investment.

    If I were to try and muster something to remove this second blink problem (though this is more to emphasize the point rather than be an actual suggestion): -

    - Double the time Nurse before fatigue for her chain-blink to 3s (to allow 1s to look and 2s to charge for distance).

    - The Nurse falls into fatigue 0.5s after she stops holding charge for blinks if she doesn't attack (allows you to abandon a bad blink faster).

    - Only allow special attacks on the first blink. Second (and third) blinks can only grab.

    - The attack on the first blink has an extended lunge (similar to a weaker version of Coup, this is a special lunge that cannot be enhanced by Coup)


    So the thought is that you can blink once to subvert a loop with an empowered lunge, and you have greater map traversal... but your first blink counts a lot... if you predict well, you can lunge for the hit. If you mis-read however, you can either blink again to catch up to close range for a longer recharge... or you can take the fatigue fast. Either way if the survivor mind games you using LOS and jukes, you're stuck recovering for some time.

    While this makes her more fair... she is incredibly punishing in this state, and probably considerably underpowered. You then have to ask why would anyone bother playing her? Especially when she is already really tough for new players....


  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 3,845

    I guess that even with a lot of hrs (I myself have 6.5k hrs) she is still hard to go against her as she is not very popular on mid-mmr ranges (at least not in EU central). Only players who have played in the old days and went constantly against her, still remember what to do. Back then it was "either do or don't" because once you hit red ranks it was 50% Nurse.

  • EldritchElise87
    EldritchElise87 Member Posts: 626

    Shes been nerfed repeatedly, what do you want.

  • vol4r
    vol4r Member Posts: 39

    That's not the case.

    Dude i am winning 95% matches with those people with 1 or 2 hooks in total most of the time.

    Nurse's mechanic is just wrong for that game. No killer should be able to go through walls and easily down people

  • vol4r
    vol4r Member Posts: 39

    I am not saying that SWF isn't a problem, that's another issue that we don't need to bring into this topic. When you get lobby of 20 000 hours combined that's what happens.


    Of course i am not happy about losing to player who has 25x less hours then me.

  • DaddyMyers_Mori
    DaddyMyers_Mori Member Posts: 2,206

    That doesn't really matter, there is a skill ceiling.

    After X amount of hours there is very little progress, at least in public games when we talk about DBD.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 528

    At the very least, it is difficult for many people to defeat advanced survivors by just spending 300 hours as a nurse.

    It could be that the person was experienced on another platform, or that many regular survivors simply don't understand the tactics used against nurses, even if they are advanced.

  • Pavel_Ch
    Pavel_Ch Member Posts: 241

    complete rework. her strength is a relic of the past, when no one really knew how to play. Now you won't run away from any nurse with game experience

  • Batusalen
    Batusalen Member Posts: 1,096

    Ironically, the ones that didn't learn how to play against her in all this years are survivors. Not surprising, taking in count the amount of them that DCd the moment they hear the first scream instead of gaining that game experience.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 528

    Everyone can find opportunities to learn how to anti nurses on many Youtube channels.

    However, many people become good at DC before they learn how to it.

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 1,605
    edited September 2023

    Since this thread has resurfaced, my modern opinion is Nurse's nerfs have actually left her in a good place now. With the switch of her blink attacks to special, and her range add-ons being reworked, she is pretty much fine imo.

    She doesn't have standard counters, but she has her own counters and mind games, which makes her harder to learn, as they only work against Nurse, but there is reasonable counter play for anyone putting the time in.

    You could argue the only one left really is to reset her blink charges when stunned so that successfully stunning her with DS/Head On/Pallets (somehow) actually means the survivor gets value instead of just annoying her before getting immediately slapped, but other than that, I'd say Nurse is in a pretty healthy spot.

  • CatnipLove
    CatnipLove Member Posts: 1,006

    I don't know how you nerf her out of the number one spot without touching her blinks. If the blinks are changed, players who have put large amounts of time into playing her get screwed over. But tweaking her outside of her blinks doesn't really impact her strength.

    I still think the best thing BHVR could do is to make it harder for her to track a survivor she has just hit. Something like adding scratch blindness after fatigue, so she can't easily follow and down the survivor immediately. BHVR doesn't seem interested in changing her blinks, so people should ask for other changes.

  • Gandor
    Gandor Member Posts: 4,220
    edited September 2023

    There are ways. Make pallets matter much more (say - if she gets stunned, remove/validate away any hit that happened in same like 100ms. Make stun+fatigue work again. Allow stunning her even if she is in the middle of her fatigue). Make any stun deplete all her charges.

    Boom. Now the killer suddenly minds pallets a little and there's much more counterplay to her without ever touching her blinks.

  • caipt
    caipt Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 401

    I mean I hate to be that guy but you got majorly skill diffed. If your 20k hour swf seriously lost to a 300 hour nurse, then you all either have 0 clue how to counter her or she has completely dedicated those hours to mastering nurse.

  • caipt
    caipt Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 401

    yeah I cannot fathom why they decided to remove stun fatigue. bugs arent always bad bhvr...