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Hard to understand....
Let me preface by saying I am a killer main and only dabble with survivor, that being said.....
When I DO play a perkless or few perk new survivor the game is so much more interesting having it truly feel like there are consequences for mistakes, getting spotted, getting hit.... generally to win regardless of solo or team queuing there needs to be a level of knowledge along with luck.
Why is it there are so many perks and 2nd 3rd 4th 5th chances for survivors not to suffer the consequences of anything seriously wrong they do? Why is there even a mechanic for endurance that allows you to face tank a hit in the game from a killer because..... you stood up? Someone touched you? The wind blew to the west?
How about we will all run like we all qualify for the Olympics after we gen rushed all the generators and get out at the speed of light because some doors are open?
I understand killers can face camp or tunnel but it still requires a little bit of knowledge to do, what direction are they coming from? If they get off the hook you still have to chase and try to capitalize on someone panic running away which one of the survivors was it that got unhooked ect...
Having skills that require no input from the player and turn them into a immortal for no reason other then there being oxygen in the world, in a game that is literally about supposedly being a victim who has to outplay and outsmart the killer into a 20 min hold W and press space at the right time.
That being said, should killers have a I win button either... no of course not but every single match every single player running the same 5-8 perks on top of the upcoming unhook patch is going to turn a lot of killers either off the game entirely or it will turn them so insanely toxic nobody including survivors will have a ton of fun.
I'm going to call it now, if the perks don't get tweaked a bit with/before this upcoming patch your going to see killers running all slowdown perks and slugging multiple times worse now than ever before.
All I'm saying is no perks should just be a oh here's a flat speed or here is a get out of jail free card for nothing other than existing for EITHER side.
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For the same reason killers have the perks they do. Part of the skill of the game is deciding which perks will help you and which will not.
For example, one of my favorite builds for The Pig is more of a meme build for me because of the way I play it. I bring Blood Warden, Hex: No Way Out, Remember Me, and Terminus. I jokingly call it my Perkless Pig build, as if you didn't use or need any perks, did you even bring them?
Then I bring the addons of Video Tape and Crate of Gears. The challenge to me is get the 4K before the last generator is completed. I don't hard tunnel, but I also am not going to just leave a survivor to complete generators or such freely either. IF the last generator is completed and NOED is cleansed and the door is open, then they win. They get out. If NOED is not cleansed yet, then and only then do I usually go for Blood Warden.
That said, were I not playing it with my "rules" for the meme fun, that build is brutal and almost a guaranteed 4K even for The Pig.
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Well this is certainly a hot take.
Honestly not sure if you're dangling troll bait or if this is your genuine opinion. Survivor is by far the harder role to play, endurance perks are difficult to trigger and often require very specific situations. And trying to say face camping and tunneling requires skill? Really?
Hard focusing out a survivor as killer and securing a kill is much easier by far than running a decent chase as survivor even with a full complement of decent perks.
None of their perks is an easy "I win" button. Killers on the other hand have plenty of perks that make the game extremely easy for them or allow them to get easy kills. NOED for one
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Replying to both =)
I understand what your saying, its honestly more of a reference to abilities that require 0 user input.
Those kind of abilities should be informational at best not immunity to damage.
Even with your build it requires you to actually do something, hook and chase your obsession / defend generators ect...
You could point too the killer perk ultimate weapon but even that requires you to search lockers to keep activated and even when it reveals something its a generalised idea most likely they are already gone..
As far as survivor being harder to play, yes surviving solo queue is difficult nobody is saying it isnt. SWF play however is not harder. The difficulty for each side is different, killers have to out think 4 players and hope the perks they brought counter the ones that the survivors brought. Its more about dbd giving survivors repeated get out of jail free cards with the right perks a survivor can take unlimited hits in a match, run faster, fix gens faster than a killer can cross the map to get to them ect..
When i referred to tunneling and camping it was a bit facetious but it still requires, catching someone, hooking someone in a advantageous area and then fending off up to 3 other people, it requires a bit of game knowledge and understanding of the killers power (I.E. Bubba)... is it fun or fair.... symantics because honestly you COULD ignore it get gens done and get out.
Look i know it swings back and forth as with any game, the point of the matter is no perk should be without a criteria, and I agree with you on NOED albeit i haven't really run noed for a few years now. Either way everything on both sides should have ACTUAL criteria
being injured isnt a criteria its a state of the game. Unhooking someone is a critera, completing a generator is, fully healing someone is, hooking someone is... ect... not just existing in the game.
One of the best examples of a good design of this is Play with your food, which requires chasing and letting someone go, but even then its a token base that you lose one every single time you swing so you need to think about if you want to use it up or not.
I just wish that both sides had actual things that "has to happen" to trigger abilities and mabye even with a limit on how many times per match it could happen for either side.
Post edited by jimih1983 on0 -
Why do killer players keep making threads, suggesting that playing survivor requires limited skill and that the perks do most of the work for them? It's just disrespectful, regardless of how polite the language is.
Playing killer and survivor is not the same. Therefore they do not need the same restrictions. Does the killer have to account for one teammate being useless and throwing the entire match for them? No. Survivors have plenty of restrictions on them that the killer doesn't have to account for. The two roles are different, so you can't compare perk usage for them.
The best part is where you gave credit to face campers for their skills whilst ignoring all the intricacies of how a survivor match plays and pretending that everyone can just equip perks and win for free. Maybe you should do more than just dabble with survivor before you start making threads telling everyone how little skill it requires.
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So what endurance perks require zero input? Because I can't think of any.
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I've been tracking my Survivor escapes recently. I've got about a 20-25% escape rate. Yeah, I think I'll be keeping my crutch and second chance perks, thanks.
Besides, I don't think Killers would want to play a game where the survivors will be hiding for most of the game. Because that's how I played before I unlocked any decent perks.
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Hot take, or probably not, actually: if a player reaches the (near) full potential of both the mechanical skillset the survivor role offers and the mechanical skillset a given killer offers, they will be more successful as killer.
What do I mean by that exactly: There are so many instances with killers where "the devil is in the detail" that only rather few people get to - since each killer has their own quirks and mechanical oddities/special cases/whatever you want to call it. The mechanics of the survivor role change very little - the greatest mechanical changes happen with using flashlights and toolboxes, otherwise it doesn't come down to mechanical prowess but having what-to-do-when-facing-which-killer-knowledge and being able to translate that knowledge into action. --- And this is precisely why insanely good killers will usually best insanely good survivors: you can get insanely good at one or two or three killers. I dare say no one knows all the details of all killers and is able to play them all while reaching full potential. - And the same goes for countering them.
(I don't want to dip into the swf debate too much; but they can make use of meta strategies that can mitigate. - Same goes for "gens asap". If the match ends before it starts then, well, it doesn't matter how insanely good the killer player is.)
This has already gotten too long. The point was though that perkwise survivors will probabla always have "more easy to access and covering more bases" perks than killers; precisely because it is pretty much impossible to know all the in and outs of every killer on every map - and survivors have less agency (aside from genuine genrush and thou-shalt-not-hook-or-slug sabo teams) in steering the match one way or the other. They have to be able to react to a wider set of situations - so their mechanic and perk design tend to address that, and the player also rather chooses a perk usable in a wide range of situations.
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