Gen Speed
Has anyone else notice how fast the gens seem to be at the min ? I'm struggling to win with meme builds which was never the issue before, I even tried gen defence perks and the gens seem to quick even with those builds on. I know its irrelevant but I've been playing for 5 years and its never felt this bad before. Love to know your thoughts?
Comments
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That's the survivor meta right now. Killer slowdown was nerfed a lot and survivor healing got nerfed a lot. Now it's more effective to just stay injured and do gens faster with resilience.
On top, survivor plays (hopefully) more efficient now, because it's possible to see what gens other players are (hopefully) working on and how far they are.
So: faster gens, despite the devs wanting to make them slower in 6.1.0
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That's what happens when the devs gut every form of gen regression/slowdown without adding time anywhere to the survivors. The healing nerf was supposed to compensate for the missing slowdown, but survivors cried so hard about it that it never went through, so now we're stuck in a position where gens are flying left and right and there's nothing killers can really do about it.
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Wait, The healing nerf DID went through. Self heal was set to 24s, medkits were made 1 heal, 2 heals max with addons, all addons toned down and COH was nerfed.
The only thing that was reverted was altruistic healing because it made no sense that it was also at 24s while already having two people busy.
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If you were winning alot previously with meme builds, then you may have been in a low MMR bracket and you've now moved up into a higher one where survivors are more efficient
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That's not the answer I was looking for. Its people go to (MMR) when everyone who has been playing for a long time knows MMR is dog water
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That's what I thought. I just didn't want to be the one to say it. Thanks :)
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Healing should have gone to 20 seconds instead of being entirely reverted.
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3 gen perks minimum is required for some m1 killers. Really sucks.
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Self heals were supposed to take longer than 24 seconds, and altruistic heals were supposed to take 24, you know, to give the survivors something meaningful to do away from gens. The medkit changes were a nice enough bone to toss to killers, but let's not pretend like the meat of the patch, the actual healing nerf went through. As it is, survivors are still more than capable of deleting injuries because heals just don't take much time to fix.
It's not as bad as it was, hit and run isn't a completely unviable strat anymore like it was back in the heyday of CoH, but that doesn't mean that it's good. That healing nerf should have gone through. As it is, survivors can rip through gens like nothing.
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I played perkless survivor for 20 games last week, I couldn't believe how easy playing survivor actually is now. it made no difference to my games. Survivors have way more variety with perk builds. I just wish killers did.
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Both self heal and altruistic were initially supposed to take 24 sec, not any longer. Only altruistic healing was set back because of the requirement of two survivors in it.
The big hit in the healing nerfs was to the medkits with all addons nerfed and all made to 24 charges and to COH, the strongest healing perk at that time. None of them were reverted.
Said that, asking for an even longer healing times will lead to survivors not healing at all. Considering that Sloppy is one of the most used killer perks, which makes self heals already take 30sec, any longer than this will lead to like 40-45sec for a single heal. Would you choose to heal once with these times or do half a gen?
And then, we'll go back to "Resilience is op, pls nerf", " I see Resilience every game" type of posts.
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Well the devs gave us a pointless furtive chase buff and a pointless background player buff while survivors continue to bring 3-4 toolboxes with wire spool and socket swivels every game, no wonder gen speeds are out of control.
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Completely agree. Apparently it's down to MMR. I wish BHVR would force everyone to play both sides. It would put an end to this one sided mentality people have
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Completely agree. Apparently its down to just MMR. I wish BHVR would force everyone to play both roles. It would put an end to this one sided mentality people have.
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Its not the solution to increase gen-times more, because its the most boring part of survivor-gameplay. 90sec Basekit on Gens is fine.
The bigger issues in the current meta are toolboxes with extra-charges, Resilience and still Prove Thyself.
I would rather see more variety in survivor-goals in a match than just slam 5 gens. Collecting Gen-Parts for example and installing them or something "new".
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Arguably, were already at the point where 'heals aren't worth it'.
Most of the current complaints about gen speeds are just the obvious result of nerfing circle of healing and medkits at the same time. All the time that survivors spent looking for totems, blessing, crossing the map to get to the boon, and spending ~22s per heal got deleted. Instead, that time is now spent on gens.
Killers just look at healing numbers and see nothing but survivors wasting time to heal themselves. Unfortunately, survivors also realize that healing is a waste of time and just don't bother.
And instead of CoH, we are back to adrenaline meta that we had before boons existed. So there's even less incentive to waste time healing there, too.
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With the way the game is being "balanced" Survivors just put more focus on doing Gens more then Cleansing Totems and saving/healing
On that point... healing perks and Med-kits being weaker then before it seems like a lost art
Gen perks and Toolboxes are the best things to bring
And Killer... well it's more like what Killer and playstyle that is being played not necessarily the perks being used
Maps also play a part in all of this...
Again the "balancing" is more on RNG then actual "skill"
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skill issue
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Anyone who's played survivor and rolled inexperienced teammates knows that gen speeds are only as broken as the survivors allow them to be
IMO the biggest cause of gen speeds being what they are today is the killer basekit buffs from 6.1.0 - survivors who were used to being able to goof off, open chests, cleanse totems for BP, etc had to choose between either continuing to have fun in between gens and all but be guaranteed to be sacrificed, or hit gens hard in order to have a chance at survival. the sweatiest of the sweaty survivors were always doing peak gen efficiency, but 6.1.0 made a lot more survivors feel like they needed to super-sweat in order to win so the overall percentage of hyperefficient survivors increased
Survivor basekit has been buffed since then and some perks (notably MFT) have helped survivors stabilize. Because of the new tool for survivor as well as the changes that forced players who care about escapes to be gen efficient, I think that's the main driver for gen efficiency. I also think, as I said earlier, you can't do anything to gens at the higher level without guaranteeing a 5% escape rate for casual survivors due to casual survivors being disastrously inefficient
Post edited by ratcoffee on8 -
No one denies matchmaking needs some work. But if the answer you want is that gen speeds/survivors need to be nerfed or tweaked because you can't roll better players without trying anymore, then yeah I won't say that.
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It's always been like this throughout the years. Only reason you didn't notice because Survivor actually have the leniency to F around because heals were easy, Second chance perks, Safe pallets every where, Maps were bigger in general,etc.
Survivor are just figuring out they couldn't just do the same thing as before. It's gotten to the point that you can notice as a survivor your team throwing by not immediately doing generators. Noticing your survivor team throwing is bizzarre thing years ago since every set back could ultimately be remedied by pressing E to dead hard or whatever broken stuff we were allowed to do.
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You can't criticise players for having one sided mentalities when you're making a point about how challenging it is to play killer whilst saying that survivors are basically ez mode that don't even need perks. You're doing the exact same thing that you're criticising.
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Gen speeds haven't changed. You've just reached a high enough MMR that survivors are working gens more consistently.
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50sec Gen is compensate for nerfed slowdown, not missing.
Medkit nerf has nothing to do with the "missing slowdown". Medkits are nerfed because they're op.
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Completely agree. Apparently it's down to MMR. I wish BHVR would force everyone to play both roles, it would put an end to this one sided mentality people have
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This is truth, its just the nerf on survivors made equal skill killers can beat survivors, only to play against far better survivors, and Gens feel even more faster.
They can buff Gens to 180sec and killers still complain because they can not beat the top survivors.
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Current completion rates restrict killer build flexibility and make the game less exciting in higher ranked matches.
It feels more and more like they want to push killers toward going for 12-hook matches, which is noble, but how do you get that to happen if gens can be cranked to 60% completion before the killer can get to 8.3% on hooks?
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You basically answering a question yourself.
You running meme build and complaining about gen speed.
If it wasn't an issue before - that just means you got higher in ranks, when average survivors doing gens istead of running around looking for chests or totems.
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I was asking a question and expect a civil discussion. I'm not interested in your childish entitled behaviour.
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Its got nothing to do with MMR imo. Its down to the broken perk build that's causing the issue imo
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Completely agree. At the same time people have no right to complain if the killer tunnels. My queue time last night playing survivor was horrendous. It was 10 - 15 min wait for a game. With the new update coming out, I have a feeling its gonna get longer. But we'll see.
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Gen speeds will always be too fast for the killer and too slow for survivors.
The fact is, as killer, your goal isn't to kill a survivor while the gens get repaired by other survivors. It's to prevent gens being repaired while you kill survivors. If you play gen defence passively, or not at all, then you will have 3 gens pop in 90 seconds or less.
The best form of slowdown will always be direct gen pressure.
This is why info perks, and the gamesense to use them effectively, are so valuable. You can't substitute them for regression perks. Regression perks are crutches to make up for the killer's inability to effectively pressure gens.
(Yes you will likely lose the first 2-3 gens fairly quickly, but if you pressure effectively, the last 2-3 will be a lot harder to finish)
Which is why some of my most effective builds are almost all info perks, or at least 3 info perks plus some minor slowdown, if the killer itself can't apply slowdown.
For example:
All-Seeing Ghostface/Pig; Lethal Pursuer, Nowhere to Hide, BBQ, I'm All Ears. (slowdown is provided by Pig's traps, or substituted by reduced chase time on exposed survivors with Ghostface)
Make-Your-Choice Dredge/Xenomorph; Make Your Choice, Floods of Rage, Lethal Pursuer, BBQ.
Or anti-healing Doctor, where the slowdown is indirect and can be bypassed entirely by refusing to heal; Ultimate Weapon, Sloppy Butcher, Distressing, Nurses Calling.
I almost never use gen slowdown/regression perks, other than sometimes Call Of Brine, which I use as much for the info it provides when someone gets a skill check, informing me to go and pressure that gen.
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Why do people think they should be able to win consistently with meme builds? I've never understood this way of thinking. If the survivors bring meta perks and play well then they should almost always win against a killer who doesn't bring a strong build. You either play to win or you run a meme build. This is basically how things are in any competitive game. You can't necessarily have both. I'll sometimes run into people playing low tier killers like Pig without any form of slowdown. Then they'll have the nerve to whine in the post game chat about how they didn't get a kill. Like what did you expect when you brought a meme build?
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Why afraid?
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I never said I expect to win. Killers should have the superior role in DBD. You can play survivor perk-less and still win or die with 20k plus points. The killer should have that privilege imo
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Gen speeds won't change unless it's the efficiency that they change
1.0-2.2 charges per second of progression
And then adding in perks can increase the 1.0 to whatever (numbers are hard)
Then adding in Toolboxes can increase the 1.0 to whatever (numbers are hard)
Oh and Great skillchecks add 1% to progress (which isn't much but if a Survivor hits multiple greats then that changes)
Killers regression is .25 charges per second
Then adding in perks it's either a % of current progress, total progress or increasing the regression rate (again numbers are hard)
So it doesn't matter if they change Gen times if Gen speeds don't change
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This misses the problem by actual light years. This was the argument before 6.1 increased gen times globally, then again to nerf prove thyself and BNP. (Remember when PT was claimed to be the sole reason for losing games? Surprise, surprise, it wasn't the issue). Now we're back to generic 'gen goes to fast'.
The real problem can't truly be solved by game balance because it's the player. Far too many killer players want to just toss on 4 slowdown perks and then complain about gen speeds and clamour for nerfs.
The real issue is that those players can't find survivors and take too long to close out chase. The game can't hand hold to tell you that you probably could benefit from chase perks, or that lethal pursuer is one of the best perks in the game. The devs have added an info perk and a chase/utility perk every chapter for almost two years now... they know the real problem and people just aren't using the tools that might actually help them improve. But entity forbid we examine our own gameplay, it's much easier to spam the forums and demand nerfs.
Instead, players just slap on pure slowdown and then take 45 seconds to find the first survivor, then 2 minutes to close out chase. Then complain that 3 gens are done 'in the first minute' because they have the game sense of a fence post.
The only time perks have 'solved' the issue of terrible gameplay was during the CoBruption meta, where any killer could hold games hostage for an hour and win by either attrition or default. That's why people have been screaming to go back to a slowdown meta, because during that meta even a potato could 4k without turning their monitor on.
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You can’t win as survivor that way. Lol.
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That's not true as I've won multiple games with survivor this way.
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Proof?
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Healing nerf is the reason why gens go so fast now.
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Is it a specific killer you're playing as or just in general?
I usually have that issue with Nemesis if I try any fun build without any gen-related perks. I don't have that, however, with Ghosty because of his insta-down.
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When I'm on dbd I will screenshot proof. I'm not sure what that's gonna prove. I'm not gonna lie. Survivor is easy most of the time lol
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I play a variety of killers. I would love to have a killer main, but I don't fancy pumping hours into 1 killer if they are gonna get nerfed lol. Because sadly the players skill level never comes into consideration when a killer becomes flavour of the month.
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My advise is to NOT stack slowdown perks in order to keep up with the speed survivors run gens. If the kill rate drops due to that, then the devs will eventually do something about it. But if killers keep up by stacking slowdown perks, then the devs will only see the pick rates for those perks and nerf them.
Play the game how you like, if the meme builds can´t keep you up, then the mmr soposedly will kick you back to a more comfortable lvl. In other words, the more you sweat, the sweatier survivors you´ll find.
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I hope I'm wrong, but their will be no stats to show. I only comment on what I see and my queue times are getting longer. People are ditching killer. The new update will push more and more away imo. Like I said I hope I'm wrong.
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Well, resilience is at least balanced in the sense that you r one hit away from being downed
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Well...to an extent, if they are very ignorant and lose their first match as like say Nurss, they are just going to say Nurse is garbage F tier
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So i dont know if anyone has said it already but by flying over everything i havent seen it yet.
The reason why Gens feel so fast now is a combination of a few things.
- The healing nerfs making Survivors rather stay injured
- MFT increasing Chase time for Survivors just enought so you can't apply your Gen regression Perks in time
- Survivors still having pretty strong Toolboxes which are sometimes necessary against certain Killers
- Survivors being tired of losing to Nurse/Blight/Wesker/etc. and bringing stronger Stuff next Match.
- Gen Regression Perks being Nerfed.
- The Match making is a Mess.
Its not just One of these Factors. Its all of them Combined.
Not one side is at fault but all of us. The Survivors, the Killers, the DEVs.
Perks like MFT that have the Ability to just extend a Chase by a maybe not insignificant Amount are unhealthy for the Game just as Deadhard was. But as we know its gonna take a long while until the DEVs will do something about it. Even more so because the only way someone will buy the DLC is because of MFT as noone really seems to care about the Singularity. (except few People)
My suggested change is to have an Activation time of 30 seconds after getting injured.
That way Survivors will not be able to have the effects for too long so chases are not streched by a too large amount, and it forces Survivors to heal which will in turn create some slowdown again that makes up for the time increase in Chase.
Survivors get to have an increased Chase time which is the most fun Part of the Game and Killers wont lose too much time because they will get their slowdown back by Survivors needing to heal to regain their MFT.
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Play Doc, can't remember when he was touched, and he is pretty balanced, I'd say one of the few M1 killers that don't exactly need gen slowdown
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