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We're going on 5 months that MFT is still unchanged
5 months that this garbage perk is still in the game, unchanged, gifting survivors everywhere a free 3% haste effortlessly. How much longer?
Comments
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They might, maybe, possibly consider changing it. They'll bring it to committee at an undefined time for an undefined review to be potentially possibly changed at an unspecified date.
A less sarcastic reply: They left Dead Hard unchanged for 5 years. Good luck convincing them to change it.
Post edited by Rizzo on30 -
Only a few more years of waiting bro
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Because no matter how much of a crutch Made for This is, it doesn't stand against a player with sufficient gamesense. Don't get me wrong, the endurance should be transplanted onto a different perk, but the speed isn't as uncounterable as people make it out to be.
I didn't realize I still left my Anniversary meme build on Nemmy for the daily, and with Deadlock as my sole slowdown, I could still take on 3 MfTs. (No early kills either, seeing the lowest BP Survivor getting 17k.)
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Not sure on the "how much longer" part, but they have acknowledged that they're seeing it used a lot and are looking at making changes to it. No ETA was given. Instead of beating a dead horse, maybe you should just have some patience.
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They said they are gonna change it. So at least we know they know the problem. But we all know how slow they are.
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Roughly 4+ years to go.
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They also said that they are reworking Twins like over a year ago.
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My fav will always be OoO nerf. They refused to nerf this perk for long years because obviously OoO user was dying most times.
I wonder why.
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So can we now agree, that this perk is too strong?
Are the pitchforks gone?
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The Speed is totaly stupid. Because as killer you learned the distances. At what distance you can hit, at what distance you can Lunge attack. With MFT all what you learned is wrong. You will miss it.
And its way harder to see as an DH or any other.
Since survivors have a smaller hitboxes some loops were before allready very tight but with MFT you cannot do em anymore (for example some doctor and clown plays).
The 2nd problem is if you pick HOPE you reach 4,4 m/s what means that a slow killer cannot catch you anymore
I think you misunderstand what "beeing to strong" means. It doesnt mean that you instawin as soon as you pick it. It just means that its stronger than other perks in comparison. Often without a downside. In case of MFT, its just allways good. Like in 100% of the situations.
Its nothing you can fail like deadhard or anything like that. AND it works together with other exhaust perks and makes that even stronger.
And on top of everything i wrote you get endurace.
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The guy on your picture also gets erfortlessly 3% hindered, speed without downside, etc for over 3 years.
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Guy in my picture isn't seen in ~25% of games
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Oh, yes. How could I forget that game sense allows Trapper to move at 120%? Silly me.
Seriously, can we stop using the term "game sense" as a straw man for absolutely everything? A survivor that moves 3% faster by default (which means 20% more time for the killer to catch up) cannot be countered by game sense alone. If a killer drops chase because their game sense tells them to, does that improve their situation in any way? The answer is no. A killer doesn't have time to run around and drop every other chase. Much less when you consider that more than 1 survivor will have MFT and that a killer cannot build up pressure without getting a down.
The worst thing about MFT is that it's completely useless against the strongest killers in this game but way too strong against the weaker killers. Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Artist, Plague and Wesker don't care too much about that. Compare that to M1 killers. Loops aren't designed for killers or survivors to suddenly move faster. That is why bloodlust is such a big deal.
I have won a game as perkless pallet Freddy against a SWF with 2 P100s on Garden of Misery too. They played terrible and I won because of it. The same thing wouldn't have happened, if they hadn't played this bad. MFT on a bad survivor is useless. But MFT on a decent or even a good survivor is horrible to play against.
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20% more time for the killer to catch up
20% is just to make the number sound scary.
In a 15 second chase, that 3% move speed gives 0.45 seconds of distance, which is 1.8 meters. That's still in lunge range.
After 15 seconds, the killer gains bloodlust, and completely negates the 3% from MfT.
Try using mind games, stop kicking pallets on cooldown, or do really anything that isn't following the survivor's exact pathing. Try zoning, using the killer's power. Maybe even turn your monitor on or stop expecting the game to hand you a win simply because you clicked 'play as killer'.
They haven't nerfed the movement speed because the counter is the killer's skill in chase, which is also the only reason this perk is complained about so much on these forums. Experienced killers all collectively go 'huh, that might've been MfT' while hooking the survivor they just downed. But it's far easier to ######### to the devs about nerfs than to examine your own game play for even one second.
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3% is 20% of 15%. Survivors gain 0.2m of distance for every meter of distance they have on the killer than they would if they didn't have MFT. This makes a massive difference around loops, mains, and between tiles (basically everywhere).
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It will be nerfed when any non ancedotal evidence shows it needs to be nerfed.
You can say it feels bad to play against, and that's valid, but half the time people scream about MFT in streams, said person doesn't have MFT.
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Its strange that when talking about survivors nerf, people bring DH with its 5 years to prove Devs not wanting to nerf survivors, never bring MoM.
Also, DH was not complained in early years to make them nerf the perk.
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The is and always had been mid. It's only extra powerful when pair with Hope during endgame 🤷🏾♂️
It's a B tier perk
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How about raw evidence showing the absurd extension to chases that it gives, in a vacuum (aka not accounting for extra loops around pallets, and making tiles you wouldn't have otherwise), showing it outperforms pretty much any exhaustion perk in the game? Because the math has been done more times than I care to recall.
Survivor mains in charge of making sense:
I'm sure the fact it's the 2nd most picked perk for survivors is purely coincidental and not representative of its performance whatsoever.
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If you really think mft is as problematic as old dead hard then maybe try getting better ?
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WoO is also very heavily used by survivor players yet it's not really a problematic perk. The meta keeps getting shot down so you have to use something. Sloppy butcher seems to be killer meta and I don't see a reason to change that perk
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We get it. Y'all hate MFT. At this point is there anything new to discuss.
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Pick rate alone doesn't dictate the strength of a perk. It's an indicator, but we have to conduct a multi-factor analysis and find out why a perk has such a high pick rate.
Typically, high pick rate correlates with perceived value from the observer. Perceived value may or may not correlate with actual value extrapolated. We examine each perk and its effects individually to determine where this value may come from.
WoO on its own doesn't add anything that doesn't already exist within each map. It's not problematic in itself, but it exposes something that is problematic: overabundance of resources in map design. However, by itself, it doesn't add anything that any survivor wouldn't be able to achieve otherwise. All it provides is information.
Now, MFT provides 10s of Endurance after finishing a heal (whether that's a pick up, or a health state), AND gives a free 3% speed boost whenever someone is uninjured. Both of these effects cannot be achieved through normal gameplay (unlike WoO) and both provide significant and very powerful benefits to anyone using them. Just the same way old Eruption's usage was at 25% for a few months there before the nerf. The value was tangible, and it was directly tied to something that couldn't be achieved through normal gameplay. So yes, WoO is "fine", and MFT is busted.
As for the whataboutism concerning Sloppy, that perk only really benefits M1 killers, most of whom happen to be some of the weakest killers in the game. The stronger killers typically use their M2 attacks primarily to play (with Spirit being a notable exception) and therefore get no value from Sloppy.
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Uninjured? My guy look at the perk before you go on. You have to be hit by the killer in order to get the effect of mft which as stated above does not actually give that much of an advantage unless paired with other perks. The endurance effect? Don't slug. The perk is clearly a slugging counter so going with that gameplay will let survivors get the full value from their build. Hooking someone after you down them will negate this effect. The killer you are playing can be overwhelmed by the MFT if it's a basic m1 killer but other than that it won't have much of an effect on blight, nurse, Wesker and even tricksters on the occasion. The game also utilizes the unknown RNG for how a match plays out. A trapper will have a bad time against a squad of 4 man swf sweats that all carry mft, but a blight against a full solo q squad will have a much better time. The thing people won't accept about dbd is that you have no control over how well you are going to do until you see what you are dealing with which may or may not be beyond your skill level. Killers saying one perk needs to be nerfed doesn't give it grounds when the same can be said by survivors about NOED, devour hope, ultimate weapon etc. None have actual issues with the game it's just an RNG as to whether you get use from it. Sometimes just take (the often undeserved) L and try again next game
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No ... 20%chase extension is quite literally the best case scenario where a killer is 115 v a survivor just holding W.
Now take into account a pallet/window the survivor wouldn't have made without the extra 0.6m every 5 seconds, and youre looking at 200-300% extra chase time over standard because MFT goes brrr.
the "3%" is the number survivor mains want to cling on to claim the effects are small, meanwhile anybody that played the game more than once and knows basic math can confirm that the 3% isn't actually "small"
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I think it's comical a blight main is complaining about a small 3% speed for the cost of a perk slot. You know Blight can be completely across the map in like a couple of seconds without even using a perk??? What percentage boost is that?
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Omg someone typo'd injured as uninjured. I win the internetz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111oneoneoneoenoen
Endurance comes into play far more than just "don't slug". Even excluding the ability to get free resets if you pop a heal in the killer's face, things like dying on a pallet with a teammate nearby ready for the pallet save, who then takes a hit, while you 99 your pick up with Unbreakable, leads to obnoxious and unwinnable scenarios for killer quite often. The perk isn't a slugging counter. Buckle Up is a slugging counter, because it specifically only activates on slugging. The stupid synergy it has with FTP needs to get gutted yesterday, and the perk powercrept both Soul Guard and WGLF which is another problem on its own, but that's what an anti-slugging perk looks like. MFT is just a "do-everything" perk, in the same way that old Eruption was.
Sure, Blight, Wesker and Nurse won't have much of an issue with it (map dependent), so don't complain when all you run into is those three killers.
"RNG" doesn't excuse poor perk design, which MFT is objectively poorly designed, and has been demonstrated 50 different ways. And this isn't gonna turn into whataboutism. Killers have NOED, survivors have Adrenaline. Killers have UW, survivors have Hope. Each side has perks that get obnoxious to deal with, but none rise to the level of stupidity of MFT, or the aforementioned FTP+Buckle Up.
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Blight mains sometimes play other killers, and may or may not get aggravated that their perfect mindgames around strong tiles get completely nullified by le funny 3% perkz! But don't whine when you run into my Blight and I 4-man slug you at 5 gens. You wouldn't do that, would you? Unlike the other 68 pages of Steam comments I have from survivors whining that their overpowered builds and overpowered items with a map offering to boot didn't save them against the broken Bligguht.
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Hyperfocus in its best scenario is OP.
So is PGTW.
Nobody cares about hypothetical vacuum experiments. Clearly, the actual game isn't reflecting what people are loudly proclaiming is the most OP perk since Mettle of Man.
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Survivors don't have anything overpowered and nullify killers. How about when survivors have perfect mindgames but killers get a little reaching hand from nowhere that says "I am sorry poor killer you seem to be having a hard time since the survivor is so much better than you, here's a little speed boost (bloodlust) to nullify survivor skill and get rewarded with a down"
I'm sure you have nothing to say about that.
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Hyperfocus performs better in a vacuum (assuming perfect skill checks every time). MFT performs WORSE in a vacuum (because you cannot realistically account for extra loops around tiles, making tiles/windows/pallets you wouldn't have otherwise, the inability for killers to mindgame stronger tiles like mains and shack or god fillers, and the fact you can still use an exhaustion perk at the end of it all and extend the chase even more (DH being a very common one). MFT is problematic no matter how you slice it. The fact that the perk is beyond busted in theory is insulting. The fact that it's even more busted in practice is a middle finger to any killer without a mobility power.
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Did this man just forget that :
Distortion deletes aura perks
Calm spirit deletes scream perks
Sprintburst bails you out if you're out of position
Lithe bails you out out of a bad z/L wall / filler pallet
FTP+BU allows you to pick a teammate up with 10s of endurance before the killer can even finish the wipe animation
DH still allows you to erase a mistake and prolong chase
Adren gives you a full healthstate/pickup when your teammates across the map pop the last gen
Hope gives you a perma 7% for the same conditions as adren
Toolboxes , especially commodius lets you crank out over half a gen in 10-15 seconds.
And to top it all off, you bring up a mechanic that BHVR introduced to bandaid fix bad map design / infinites as a "gotcha moment".
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Bruh if you made the typo don't act like it's out of the question to be mistaken 🤣 moving on to your other points. It sounds like survivors put useful combos to use and that's what you have the issue with. I have been enjoying the stake out/fogwise combo since it gives me awareness of the killer when applicable but can be countered easily by fearmonger and stealth killers. My point being you have counterplay. Also you seem to be using examples exclusively from a vs swf mindset and while I agree that swf is really unfair most of the time it can't be the basis for how the game is balanced. MFT can be reduced by not slugging and if you see that they are forcing an endurance hit in play then you have the option of either tunneling the endurance hit for the down or moving on. Yes I know that many will say "killer can't do this" but in reality you are able to. Some slight pressure on the gens will really keeps survivors off that area. It's not as busy as as you think but I do agree that the endurance effect either needs to be removed or reworked. Having a little extra speed is not a bad thing unless hope is in play during the end game which from what I've seen only makes killers mad since it counters NOED and you can't just get a free down and kill. If you see this in play then either go for someone else and in the event of a swf just loosen up and chase them out (they tend to annoyingly wait at the gate) and move on to the next game. Nerfing is not needed just because you personally can't deal with something as plenty of killers have risen above and killed the MFT survivor many a time
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Hyperfocusing on a typo as if it's some massive gotcha when you knew exactly what I meant to say, is a showcase of your lack of counterargument, and is clearly what I meant.
There's useful combos, like Vigil Sprint Burst, or Chemical Trap Flashbang, or Wiretap Blast Mine, or Head On QnQ. The synergy between these perks is fine, as the effect isn't overpowering. When you have a perk that gives you AND someone else endurance for 10s before the killer can even finish his recovery animation, and denies a slug/hook, that's not a useful combo. That's a broken combo. In the same way that old COB+Eruption/Overcharge was a broken combo that needed to get gutted.
What's the counterplay to FTP+BU or 99ing heals with MFT and stacking gens with Resilience? I don't think I've talked about the macro effects of MFT at all, this entire conversation has been nothing but its micro effects in the 1v1. There is no distinction between SWF and not SWF here.
Some of the best players in the entire game; comp players, who play at the highest level, on both roles, and who have more hours in this game than you and I combined, all hold the consensus that MFT is ridiculously busted, and if you can't extract any value from the perk, your skill at the game is in the negatives. Do with that information what you will.
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That is so silly. You really think maps are a problem when half of them have huge wide open deadzones that looks like a prairie?
I didn't say bloodlusting every time because I'm not ever seeing killers have any difficult time whatsoever. But on the one-off chance a survivor outplays the killer for a slightly longer amount of time, then there is an actual mechanic that rewards the killer for being worse skill-wise. Imagine playing another game with "MMR" and you missed the opponent a few times and then the game aims for you and you win because you are just bad at the game? Yeah, that is WRONG!
Stop inventing excuses for something being unfair and negating skill in a game.
What kind of band-aid fix was Blight supposed to solve then?
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...Are you implying all of those things are overpowered?
The only overpowered things on this list are Buckle Up + For The People, and giga toolboxes. The rest range from strong but fair to outright weak.
None of them nullify your killer, either, if that's the part they're meant to be countering. At best you could argue Calm Spirit is particularly potent against Doctor, but let's not pretend that makes it OP or renders you literally powerless.
I don't agree with the person you're responding to, Bloodlust is a healthy mechanic, but this is a weird rebuttal.
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If it's a typo then it's clearly not what I thought you meant but sure I'm the one "hyperfocusing"
Would the top tier killer at play be otz? No offense and he's a really good player but he also seems like he's biased and easily angered by the mechanics of the game. MFT has some baggage sure but it's not nearly as bad as old dh or even the really old ds that literally granted free escapes for no other reason other than getting off the hook. You act as if killers don't already know the countdown tick to get past endurance. Happens all the time off hook and MFT doesn't protect you from window/generator grabs. Ds does so maybe someone can synergize those for some plays but I personally don't see the point in that. Yes I agree that the endurance should only affect one survivor at a time but it's not nearly as busted by itself as many are saying. Extra speed? Use your base bloodlust to get past that and don't break any pallets and force respect on said pallets. If you see an infinite coming then head for the next one. Dbd is not a game to be this competitive and technical over as by design it is extremely unfair in most cases. Killers cant take a 4 man sweat squad nor can survivors take on a p100 blight that has every corner of every map memorized. MFT is supposed to affect those type of killers and it sucks that everyone else has to take the fall for it but there is little to no counterplay at high levels and unfortunately, this is where the devs see the need to balance. Casuals are left to their own devices. It's not "lacking counterargument" by not agreeing with you :)
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He wasn't implying they were overpowered, he was giving a counterexample to the claim that survivors can't counter killer mechanics. Survivors bringing 4x Distortion against a full aura Huntress, for example, results in the killer playing essentially perkless.
I'll also say, there are definitely certain perks that counter certain killers. Anti-slugging against Twins, Urban Evasion against Huntress/Slinger, MFT against Doctor, Fixated against Pinhead, Iron Will/Lucky Break against Spirit, even a Rainbow Map against Hag/Trapper. I don't have any problem with these, however. MFT is overperforming against far too many killers though, and doesn't just counter a specific aspect of their power, but rather the entire chase dimension of the game.
And I actually agree with the guy that Bloodlust is a stupid mechanic (but so is the current map design), but that's not a conversation for this thread. You'll notice MFT apologists keep trying to shift the conversation onto something else, because any conversation about MFT specifically yields too much empirical data about its overperformance than can be overlooked.
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Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
We can't have common sense in a nerf a perk discussion.
On a serious note, I completely agree with you that the only thing that needs removed is the endurance. The haste can be dealt with and again, they have to stay injured to get the bonus.
Oh, and I would agree with others about it stacking with Hope, cause that is kinda insane.
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You obviously understand the activation criteria for MFT, as do I. The typo was quite clear; I mistakenly typed uninjured instead of injured. The point being that the bar to meet to activate MFT is very low.
Why are you bringing up Otz? You're arguing against the ghosts of Christmas past. Otz is neither a top tier player (no offense to him), nor a comp player. I'm talking about people like KnightLight, Zaka, V1, and other comp players in some of the most consistent teams in the scene. But even outside of them, I can't think of a single person that has any tangible experience in DBD playing both sides, that doesn't agree that MFT is ridiculously overperforming.
Counting down Endurance doesn't matter if the 10s lets you make a god pallet/fast vault. You either hit into the Endurance, give a free speedboost, all so you can avoid a potential DH, or wait it out, play into 3% haste, and eat a DH 2 minutes later anyways. There is no winning scenario. MFT doesn't protect you from generator grabs because working on a gen is a conspicuous action, and those delete endurance. Yes, old DS is stupid. You can do a gen in the killer's face and they have nothing they can do about it. But that's been nerfed, and now there's a new overperforming perk in town, and it needs adjustments.
How do you use your "base bloodlust" when you lose chase every 3 seconds because the survivor is literally so fast you can't keep up with them on half the mains in the game? And how do you use your base bloodlust when the survivor keeps chaining god filler into god filler into strong tile with 3% haste and resi? And even when you do finally catch up, you eat a DH and have to do it all over again.
You're not saying something that's exclusive to DBD when you talk about skill difference. Any game with a semblance of skill requirement will be massively lopsided towards one side that is vastly more skilled than the other. But at the top level, most killers on the roster stand no chance against MFT, because the perk simply provides an effect that is far too strong. The ironic part is, MFT does nothing for the sweatlord P100 Blight (I should know, I am one). But it does do something for the Trapper playing with a meme build that gets sent to Garden of Joy. And yes, even top tier players playing top tier killers have counters. This includes Blight, and Nurse, and any other killer you want to lump in with them. The level of skill that you have to bring to the table to counter these killers is equivalent to the one that they bring. When MFT is on the table, however, and against a killer without a chase power, there is nothing that the killer player can hope to bring to counter it, outside of whatever ineffective exhaustion tool they may have.
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To all MFT defenders:
If you think the perk is fine, you are just bad at the game.
Just admit you like it because it is a strong perk.
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...Not struggling against your opponents makes you bad at the game?
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You keep talking about stacks of builds like everyone has them. DH is not used. Y every single survivor that exists nor is it always topped with MFT. From what I can tell you are a p100 blight main which means you've gotten used to just getting kills for the sake of queuing in which is not a mindset to bring when trying to discuss the "health" of the games perks. Also you need to drop this mentality that dbd is a competitive game. It's incredibly luck based and unbalanced as ****. While some players have only this game to play and like to torment themselves by saying "oh I can play dbd is a "tournament" so that makes my word holy writ" that doesn't mean the rest of us have to take in your bias towards builds that counter the really unbalanced killer you choose to play. Blight needs a rework and this has been said for years so as long as he's out and about being the most busted killer (information taken from your "competitive" leaks) you can't complain about MFT. If you were making an argument for any other killer (even the nurse is more applicable) than I would be more inclined to listen but you are giving off the vibe that you personally can't deal with something so that means the rest of us should follow suit. Not a cute look.
Also let go of the typo and don't act superior because you typed the wrong thing and didn't check yourself before posting. That's not on me
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Anybody using MFT and getting value out of it is actually good at the game, since if they were bad, they wouldn't get value out of the perk.
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I don’t struggle with MFT because I only play strong killers like Nurse, Spirit since End Transmission.
I am not a master or pro with killers I play but I never thought MFT is fine.
Even I suggested the perk shouldn’t come live server without any change in PTB feedback.
If you can deal with the users, it’s fine.
But considering how DbD maps are awful in terms of balance and how many killers are M1 simulator without mobility, I don’t think it is hard to notice why the perk is problematic.
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Im not implying they are "OP" im stating the obvious.
Compare a Qnq+head on player vs a sprintburst / lithe / MFT player.
Nobody is going to claim qnq+Ho is overpowered because theres a fair amount of skill required for the payout, as in, you have to pull off a good mindgame. When this combo is used i just go "damn, that was a nice play"
Meanwhile SB/lithe/Mft bails the survivor out when the killer catches the survivor off guard / successfully zones him into a bad spot and its just : "wow... he just.... runs faster...."
The skill required to pull off a SB/Lithe/MFT "play" is significantly lower when compared to its reward.
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Now like the other guy pointed out, distortion just outright deletes aura perks and makes a killer perkless , even IF the killer doesn't bring aura you're able to rule out a vast majority of killer perks because distortion wasn't triggered and decide to clear totems. Same applies to CS.
DH still allows you up to 2 mistake erases. Messed up the mindgame? Got outplayed? Its all good , just press E for a free rewind.
Adren and hope essentially guarantee a free escape just because you've reached the 80-90% mark of the match thanks to the speedboosts / free heal.
Adren on its own encourages you to stay injured and abuse the 9% gen speed from resi , because why bother healing and waste 32 charges worth of time when you can put those charges on the gen and get a free heal?
There's a reason these perks are meta, and it's not because they are "fair"
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I've been playing Knight, Ghostface and Wraith.
The perk is strong, but that's okay.
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It IS a strong perk, but not as overpowered game-breakingly strong as people claim that needs to be nerfed to oblivion.
I also agree it could have the endurance removed however.
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MFT and Blight addons have plot armor
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You're making an awful lot of assumptions about me there. But that's okay.
DBD is really not that unbalanced anymore. If this was 3-4 years ago, sure. But not so much anymore. There is actually a fair resemblance of balance in DBD, and it can be fine tuned by picking certain maps for certain killers and placing certain limits on perks/addons/items - you know - exactly what comp does.
Do you have any arguments in defense of MFT specifically or do you just not like me personally?
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