Thoughts on Hug-Tech?
Now we know Blight changes are in work, so i wanna ask question about his Hug-Tech.
Do you think it should be removed or should be added to his base-kit?
Comments
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Its fine. I know it was slated to get fixed like years ago. But with how long its been in the game. I feel people have gotten used to it basically being part of blights basekit. And i feel the quote of "it will be fixed" and how long its been since that point. Was either said without not actually being sure it was going to be fixed. Or its definitely taken longer than expected. Blights problems are his addon set being to good. Basekit wise hes fine and hug tech makes for some great moments and skill-expression.
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Blight: able to "hug-tech" for years even though devs expressed it's unintended and they want to fix it
Billy: get stuck on invisible collisions every 2 minutes
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I hope they dont remove it. I like hunting for those rare Blights and such. Always good fun, especially when their tech simply turns to dust. D/c'ing Blight is just the best feeling lol
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It adds depth to the gameplay on both sides, otherwise he would use bump logic which makes for more reliable results. Also Hug tech is no overpowered thing at all, you can see what he is doing and still have an impact full decision to make, do you go close or wide... Also I think there is a big misconception about hug tech in the sense that many people confuse it with sliding among walls and not bumping, which is just bad collision...
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Its a tech that still has counterplay and adds an extra layer to a chase. People just for whatever reason think its the issue when in reality its just Blight himself and his add ons
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Personally, I don't have an issue with it.
I'm not a good enough Blight to be able to pull it off myself, but I don't find it particularly unfair when I'm playing survivor.
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Finally, a blight thread where there’s a bunch of people with sense and not the typical, ”iTs aN eXpOiT cAuSe tHE dEvS sAiD sO tWo yEaRs aGo” or “tHeRe iS nO cOuNtEr waahhhhhhh”
Hug tech is perfectly fine, and adds depth and skill expression to chase. Bump logic is more reliable for consistency, but hug tech is more fun.
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Considering that there are at least 10 bugs that make blight weaker in some way, I think the hug tech acts as an equalizer to those. I don’t mind removing hug tech but only when everything else about him works as intended (which will never happen)
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So he has 10 bugs that make him weaker? And he is still an S-tier killer?
Blight and Nurse need nuked. I honestly don't care how. That's what Blight mains and the devs are for. My opinion (which I'm allowed to have) says Blight needs more than just add-on nerfs.
Some of this is also jealousy since I main Pig, Freddy, Clown, and Mike. What he has as a whole is just stupid compared to my killers. I find that ass backwards.
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I think they should nerf some of his addons and buff the weaker killers instead of nerfing his basekit. Yeah sure he is strong but that’s because the player invested a lot of time to get good, and even then he can still be looped because he can’t go through walls
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Blight: addons go wroom.
Billy: engravings get a nerf.
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I'm not a big fan of "took time to learn so now gets to be OP". That has always been said about Nurse as well. That being said I would be 100% fine with this. I would have no problem with Nurse/Blight status if Freddy had good add-ons. He has a couple decent add-ons that people mistake for being good because the rest are SOOOO bad but none of them are good. He also has no power in endgame but that's a whole different issue.
I fully understand not all killers are created equal. That's actually a good thing. I believe all killers should have good add-ons though that change the playstyle. That's mostly what I want. I just don't see how life makes sense when Blight has better add-ons then every killer currently. He already has so much.
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They will remove it and it will be a painful extraction for everyone involved.
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I also want everyone to have good and interesting addons, but in the current system that’s kinda hard to balance. I wish the loadout system was point based, meaning killers have around 15 points (weaker killers maybe a few more) and perks and addons cost 1-5 points depending on their strength (also should probably make addons infinite). This doesn’t automatically make every addon good/interesting but it would make balancing a lot easier (and allow hoarders like me to actually use addons)
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We shouldn’t advocate for anything in the game to be “nuked”. What happened to billy was absolutely disgraceful and should never happen again.
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So current blight only uses 10% of his power?
Step aside nurse.
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nah more like 90% since most bugs are minor. it’s just that it’s basically impossible to play a game without missing a hit because something stupid happened
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Right now currently Blight, Nurse, MfT, and tombstone piece need nuked. You are right about Billy though.
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Well. I think Blight has a dumb strong power to begin with. So I would be against making him stronger in any way possible.
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nah nurse and blight basekit are mostly fine. The other two really need some changes though
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I like this idea. We can dream.
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With the way people resort to attacking people when they have different opinions I am very impressed with you. Thank you for being civil about this. When people attack your favorites I understand it can be frustrating. I applaud you.
I would also like to mention again however I would have no issues with any of the discussed issues if add-on strength was not so lopsided between great killers and the weak.
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both are balanced killers. losing to them in chase is 100% your fault.
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I actually don't think they are fine basekit. You need to compare them to the other killer powers.
If we want to make the gap between killers slimmer, the top needs to be toned down and the bottom brought up.
I honestly feel awful when I play blight and after hooking a survivor and using Bbq, I get a hit in mere seconds. I compare this with most other killers in the game and it just feels like cheating.
Yes I know he has solid counters.
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Balanced in what scenario?
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Look at all these Blights... omg 😍
Won't any of you add me and come play sometime? I promise it'll be fun! <3
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the scenario where the survivors understand how to counter them. both their basekits are fine, though nurse could use a few additions such as bringing back stun fatigue and lightburn. They have plenty of counterplay. But the best survivor in the world cant win a game if they get placed with 3 megheads. its a soloQ/MMR issue not a killer balance issue.
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Totally disagreed, back in the past hug tech was so rare since many people didnt even knew how to do it , and back them any decent blight main used to destroy any team including myself i used to like to run always the speed and the addons to insta-break pallets to see how god it was , SURPRISE was broken as hell but yet it still exist so i just stick to the lower rarity ones, also i never EVER used hug tech to earn my hit , however when i noticed how it works i just stopped playing blight after knowing how hug tech was becoming popular:
skill-expresion: Buddy please , you just look to the ground while looking a object and you slide and not only that you can easily turn your camera, there is no mindgame there you just use the slide to get close and the lethal rush to correct the aim.
(speed addons , hug tech , other broken addons , seems really BS to me and nothing stopping you from using them , yeah? )
if i gets fixed am ready to see a lot of posts about people needing hug tech to actually play blight , i just missed the days when people used to do insane pinball mindgames ; i love doing them but yeah the newer maps are a bit hard for that , still want hug deleted tho.
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They have removed several techs because they were exploits over the years. I said it back then with infinite locker safes and the removal of Skybilly and Spacebilly as well as the introduction of invisible walls to counter these. If we are going to remove exploits for the sake of removing exploits, then we have to be consequential about it. Meaning, no matter how much of an impact an exploit has, it should be fixed. Otherwise, it looks like very obvious favoritism.
In Blight's case, I think Hug Tech is just unnecessary. Why does he need it? Isn't he strong enough without it? I think it's fair to remove it. But, if they are going to fix Hug Tech, then they should also take care of Blight's other bugs. No more sliding off of trees and colliding into things that aren't even your screen.
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saying hug tech is unskilled because you just look down is like saying looping is braindead because all you do is press spacebar to gain distance.
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TLDR: As long as things are broken and OP in killers favor, "Its fine".
Just another day of the killer echo chamber that is the forums.
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Hug tech is fun to vs. Plus, when you look for it, you can usually easily see it coming. And if you pay close attention, you can often position or start pre-running the opposite direction of the loop when it becomes obvious what way they are about to hug tech around the loop. In many cases, the Blight can only really hug tech around the loop one way, so you expect him to come that way.
Plus, in many cases as the blight is 'setting up' the hug tech, you can just run to another nearby loop and his hug tech becomes worthless.
If you can't do either of these for whatever reason, a good old spin around the blight when he's tightly hugging the corner often works.
I think they should leave the hug tech in the game.
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claps , best argument , hug tech lover? and that survivor that do not know to hold a tile for longer than 3 seconds instead of pre-dropping?
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what does that even mean... all I did was compare hug tech to pallet looping to highlight that assuming its easy just because it looks easy doesnt mean it is. Running in a circle isnt hard. looking down isnt hard. its where, when, how, and why you do those things that make them skilled.
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that... is just false
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where do you guys always see the notes????? i checked the whole forum and find NOTHING
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Ok, my question is then, do we want killers like Demo or Nemesis be viable in most levels of play?
It's about making a general strength level and making all killers a bit closer to that.
Nurse and Blight are levels above the other killers. Only spirit, plague and Artist come close to them.
That's not ok.
If we want more killers to be viable, small changes to their power will not be enough ( Trapper). The game needs big balance changes.
But we can't make them with those killers being way stronger than the rest. They need both be tuned down for the sake of balancing out the others.
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don't forget random extra cooldowns, power not recharging when it should be, some attacks just don't have a hitbox, some lethal rush attacks just work like a normal lunge for some reason, blights a mess
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I think there should be killers that are harder than others that reflect the level of commitment to learning those killers in a better performance when mastered, the question is just where is this sweet spot... Because there are many killers in this game that just don't have much depth, that you can basically master in a day, at least from a mechanical standpoint.
And then there are other killers like Huntress, Billy, Blight, Nurse, Wesker, Plague and some more that require way more time to play properly. Killers like Nurse, Blight, Billy require you to know the maps better, especially on indoor maps for Nurse when you need to know the map layout to play the map. Or Blight and Billy where you need to know about collision and which tiles you slide off of and which ones you can bump into.
My point is it is fine that the killers vary in power, the question is just how much of a variance is ok, If we imagine a killer like Legion being close to the power level of some of those killers that are so much harder to play properly, then why would people even take the time to learn them? We have seen this with Singularity and Billy where the killer is quite good (Singularity) or rather average (Billy) and people just don't play them because it is too much of an effort and not worth the while. I think overall there should not be any killers that are on D tier level and below. As for the power level of Nurse and Blight, I would say with addons Blight is stronger than Nurse, otherwise Nurse stays the best killer in the game, but since they changed her addons they really don't give much to her strenght anymore. And the gap between those two and the next 3-4 killers is not that big anymore either, but ofc all of them are still way above Trapper, Trickster, Clown and so on.
When you design a killer that is really easy to play/learn/master I don't think it should necessarily perform as well as harder ones, just so you get a reward for the effort to put in, the question stays though, how hard is hard enough and what is the spot we should aim at for each killer to represent the amount of time you need to play it properly. So for example if we say Billy is that much harder than Legion to play properly, he should also be somewhat adaquately stronger than Legion.
Blight is a mechanically very demanding killer, and probably one of the hardest to play, in my opinion right after Billy. He should be rather strong, but some of his addons are just busted, they should get nerfed, but his basekit is just fine. And btw. obviously Billy is way too weak for how hard to play he is, but that's just a side note.
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Random extra cooldowns and power not recharging? These are news to me. I also haven't heard of Blight's attacks not having a hitbox.
If these are indeed bugs, then of course they should be fixed as well. In my opinion EVERY killer should work as intended. Even the strongest ones.
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I strongly disagree. In what world should a trapper, wraith, or Freddy, be even remotely close to blight in strength? The mechanical difference warrants the drastic difference. It’s important to have your weaker killers who are simple and easy to play, and have much stronger killers who require much more mechanical input, thought, and game knowledge to use.
If every killer is generally in the same realm, it’s boring.
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The shoelace bug dude…. Don’t get me started. It’s so frustrating. That and double fatigue annoy me the most, and they happen nearly every game.
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Balance balance balance. This game is NOT a game that has balance in mind. This will be an ongoing argument for the lifespan of dbd if you want balance.
Just make your own fun in a match. I am TOTALLY allergic to gens, Plague or not. So I usually end up stalking the killer moreso than otherwise. Taking chase at the right moment to maybe save another survivor is what I like to do. Usually get camped but... thats going away, right?
I hope not...
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This i definitely agree with.
Old Billy was so fun to verse and play as. He truly was a balanced healthy killer, pretty much universally loved. All he needed was the engravings better death with.
As far as Blight is concerned, it's hard to be unbiased because I'm forced to run him with a controller. Against him I for some reason usually did well, but playing as him I felt so limited.
What really needs to happen is tweak several add-ons and fix the dozens of collision issues first, leaving his base as is. If all that actually happens, then let's talk about techs.
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I agree that the killers should vary in strength but not that big.
Also I disagree that Blight is one of the hardest killers to play. He's one of the hardest to master but to perform good with him takes very little time. That's just due to his power being that good (even only for mobility) and the general survivor being a little clumsy.
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No. It's not boring. Killers play differently.
Again. Performing good with Blight isn't that hard. Same with Nurse.
Mastering Blight on all maps is very hard.
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What buff would you give?
It's not possible. It's core game mechanics that make weaker killers weak. Making Pig faster in crouch will not make her way better on huge maps with tons of strong structures and unfair tiles.
But changing core mechanics to fit more the average killer isn't possible whith killers like the 3 mentioned. They need to be toned down a bit for core changes to be possible.
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I wish M&K support was added for console players. He is so much more fun on m&k… which is probably the case for the entire killer roster.
I would agree his addons need work. Alch ring + c33 essentially makes me unbeatable in pub matches. Less experienced players won’t get the same value, but these addons turn good blights into an unstoppable killer to your average team.
I would also agree with you on that last bit. You cannot go after his techs until collision is fixed. BUT as history shows, tweaking collision has always messed things up… creating new techs or bugs.
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nurse and blight are not bottlecapping buffing those killers. you could very easily give nemmy or demo buffs that fix their issues without buffing nurse or blight. Basekit buffs to the killer role will never be a good idea with minimal exceptions, because unlike survivors killers are not a monolith and never will be. It is impossible to make every killer be of equal power.
Why are nurse and blight the best killers in the game? because they have very strong chases, and chasetime controls dbd. And blights also got very good mobility. if a killer lacks either then they are bad. Thats not because of nurse and blight, thats because that killers basekit is inadequate. nurse and blight do not prevent making demo portals take longer to destroy or have him move through and exit them faster. Nothing is stopping the devs from making marvins blood basekit or completely shifting how tiers progress.
Xeno and demo share plenty of similarites. Are they the same killer? no, but in a lot of ways xeno is an improved demo. He has the tunnels which function similarly to the portals, except they needn't be placed at the the cost of taking a bit longer to traverse and not controlling where you put them. Xeno also has access to them at the start of the match, and can linger in the tunnels as long as he likes. Xeno can also hear footsteps while in the tunnels, so he can choose if he really wants to emerge somewhere. Demo needs to place his portals and they can be destroyed. Sure he has versatility in that he controls placement, but it doesnt really matter since you would just put them on gens anyway. You also have to commit to a teleport, you either do or you dont.
Xeno also has the tail attack. it has a shorter range than demo's shred, but a much much faster wind up and fire along with being able to hit and curve over objects for hits. Xeno is always zoning you out while still gaining distance. Demo needs to wind up shred and fire it which takes a while, and he loses distance while charging it. and if he misses he is now out of position and stunned, while a xeno would just lose some distance but still be in postion.
Xeno can have his power removed though so hes nowhere near just being demo but better. But there are plenty of things about xeno that are just a better version of demo. Nothing was preventing the devs from making any of those things part of demo's kit, they chose not to. nurse and blight are irrelevant.
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That's what I meant by saying play properly ^^ It is not about performing well, because that is mostly an issue about the matchmaking and survivors not knowing what options they have in chase against a Blight.
Think about how hard Billy is to master and how easy Legion is... This should be represented in the difference in power. Also as demonstrated by several content creators (Hens, Knightlight and more I think), you don't need to play only top tier killers to perform well, they played games without tunneling camping, using the killers power and so on and had a win rate of over 90%... When we look at results it is a skill issue, the problem is how easy to achieve the results are... Whereas with a harder high tier killer you have to learn him first and put the effort in there, to have easier games later, whereas with weaker easier killers you have a harder time during the match but you can pick them up without much training.
I think the concept itself is alright, the question is only about the relation of skill needed to play properly and strength.
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