Too many hooks

Sure. But why are we even having sabo mechanics in the game at this point? There's no more point to it if devs decide it's good idea to have a hook every 8m. Sabotaging at this point is pure bait on survivors to take meaningless perks that don't do anything, because even successful sabo results in hook. It's like having successful flashlight save that has 90% chance of not doing anything, because it's good idea to basekit give intermittent lightborn for 4 out of every 5s.

Every map rework goes waaay overboard with hook density. I know many people don't care, because not that many people play sabo, but given current situation they should remove the mechanics, because it's just bait

Remove sabotages. They are now meaningless. Why keep the mechanics in current broken form?

But you don't get it. If you get new map, you don't have to ever think about sabotages ever any more. They are now impossible. Even perfect sabotage with breakout and taking hit is not enough, because you will still have ample time to just go to next hook.

Sabotage mechanics is just pure bait at this point. The best use case you can get (if you are lucky with hook spawns) is to deny scourge hook. But you will never deny hook altogether.

Developers are really mean with this one. On one hand they buff saboteur and bg player with increasing wiggle progress with breakout and on the other hand they make sabo saves impossible with hook density. Like what is this stupid thing?

Count hook density on saloon, midwitch, new rancid abbatoir or new mac millans. As I said already - sabotages with new remakes (I wonder about shttered square, but given the trend I expect it to have also hook every 5m) of maps make sabotages pure survivor bait. Try it out in customs. I am sure you will conveniently be able to go around 3 hooks without any worries - and 3 hooks means sabotages are meaningless

Killers need hooks. I think it's fair. When he downed a survivor he should get the hook. There's no need to play break out or boil over (cuz the killer will still be able to hook) and I think that's fine. It's not the intention of the game to make wiggle off and Bodyblock easy for survivors. You should accept when the killer got you.

Understand that the hook is separated from the second floor and the first floor.

Also, understand that sabotage is not a guarantee of success in brain death, but only a remedy.

Understand the aim of the killer and predict where you want to hang. Killer wants to hang it on a tactically effective hook, not just trying to suspend survivors on a nearby hook.

"It's a your skills issue"

Saboing is meant to be niche, if you have an area where a hook is already gone from a sacrifice or its a map corner etc then you can do a sabo play every so often. But I beg lets not buff saboing so its actually a viable consistent thing, I just want to hook my survivors please.

Maybe people here don't realize the changes that happened.

What just happened is the same as if killers got new perk that allows them to fully block windows from distance and instabreak pallets (buff to sabotage, breakout, bg player) - but at the same time survivor was sped up to 120% (while keeping killers at 110/115%). Like why bother with such a new perks when you know there's nothing you can do, because survivor can just hold-W for you to never catch him (in case of sabotaging - killer is able to get to next hook no matter how well you sabotage).

I really mean it - if we want to keep sabotages THIS BAD, what's the reason in keeping the mechanic in game? It's pure bait of even trying to play for sabotages. It would be more honest from developers to remove possibility to sabotage altogether

Again. That does not matter. You overtake him. You sabotage hook killer was going for. Killer hits you once and you got away. Now there's nothing more you can do - but killer can still easily go to yet another hook.

What gives? Sabotaging is just dead. Going for sabotages is now throwing. Because hook density

Let's bring a tool box. Even after being attacked, you can surely destroy the hook by destroying it again.

If you bring a Breakout, the survivors who have been carried by the killer can get out.

If you can't solve it alone, another person should solve it. What are the four survivors for?

Do not try to solve anything free of charge. You may be beaten by the killer until you fall, and you can get the time for the survivors carried by the killer to get out.

I know and experienced an example of survivors who have escaped from the killer many times. And it also includes the wisdom comparison with the killer, so if I fail, I am convinced that I am the bad.

You have the freedom to doubt me, but you can find many precedents on YouTube.

I think there's too many gens. There should only be five, since only five are needed.

See the problem?

When a killer downs someone, that's supposed to be a hook. Blocking, saboing, Boiling Over, these aren't supposed to be an entire strategy for winning. Stopping a hook is supposed to be an extra thing survivors accomplish, not what they expect to do instead of running.

When a killer finds a way to stop gens completely, that's not a fun game, the basic objective of survivors isn't supposed to be stoppable. Stopping survivors is a bonus, but shouldn't be something that's consistantly do-able, shouldn't even be consistent.

If I bring gen progression to a halt, that's an accomplishment. If I bring all slowdown perks to bring gens to a halt, that's not an accomplishment, that's just being obnoxious. I don't want the game to be impossible for the other team, or miserable. I'm not trying to stop survivors from getting points, if anything, I'm piling them on.

And as others said, when a killer can't hook, there's no choice but to bleed survivors. Once a team shows me they don't think I should be able to play at all, that's when I camp, tunnel and bleed people out. If I can't get anyone hooked because they wanted that type of game, I have to make every hook as deadly as possible.

Once it's clear the plan is to not let me get hooks or points, the only thing left to play for is kills.

Don't yearn for a game that's too hard for killers, killers just adapt. I was here when sabos were permanent, I've played when the only hooks left were in the basement. Survivors didn't leave happy, they didn't leave at all. The game is healthier and more fun when basic objectives are possible.

And I really have to ask you. Did you see new maps? Do you really think sabotages can be called consistent strategy? Do you trully believe it? Or do you think sabotaging as a whole concept (not just a rare ocasion when it works) was OP at say patch 6.1? Answer truthfully please.

I agree it shouldn't work every time. If we disregard several parts of game (most recently boil over fiasko that indeed could make you unhookable), this wasn't the case. I also am not talking about having consistent way how to sabotage - that's why I was concerned with bg player buff.

But I didn't expect hook changes that were implemented. That's the only reason why I am quite frankly very unhappy. If sabotages were as strong as specifically at patch 6.0 (6.1 reduced hit cooldown which changed some crucial timings), I would be super satisfied.

There were some maps that were strong for sabotages and others that made it impossible. You could force some trades if played reasonably well, but even that wasn't guaranteed.

Right now there are no maps that are good for sabo (with exception to parts of selected few maps), but there's growing number of maps where going for sabo is stupid no matter what

As others have said, sabotage does not guarantee a successful escape.

And for example, when a survivor is downed in the middle of the map, are you still trying to sabotage them? The killer can go anywhere from there. Survivors who try to interfere cannot block all paths. The killer's movement is restricted at the edge of the map. Let's understand the situation.

And your claim that there are hooks at 5m intervals has already been refuted. If you've played a killer for any length of time, you'll know that there are many situations in which the hooks used to hoist up survivors are not convenient.

Did you spend 1000 hours on sabotage? All you need to do is play the killer for 1000 hours and develop the ability to read the killer's reality and psychology.

With every map remake hook density goes way up. It started with Midwitch (this one was "justified" as hooks were really terrible there - now it's one of the harder maps for sabotages, but still possible), then they changed Rancid Abbatoir where it's absolutely not viable ever to sabotage (no matter if you are on map edge or anywhere) and now new mac millan variants are like Rancid. And they did nothing with Saloon - which was always very hook dense (and the only possibility of sabo was literally only if you had lucky RNG + the down happened inside gate, or if killer panicked and didn't realize 1 hook down means nothing).

And I will repeat myself - I don't want to have guarantee. I never did. But I don't want to have guarantee sabotage will fail. That's the issue I am talking about. Right now on new maps it's guaranteed sabotage will fail. 5m was of course hyperbole, but what is NOT hyperbole is, that killer can literally go for a hook that will go down right to his face, survivor can take hit and killer still has enough time to go for next hook GUARANTEEING that sabotage will fail. All I want is guarantees to be off for both sides.

Also I do play a lot of killer. So your comment in that regards is meaningless. Also playing as killer (on M&K) I still don't get why some people bring boil over (as it got value against me literally just 1x and even that one was mainly because of successful sabo and last wiggle hitting me on hook instead right next to it so that I could animation lock into it) - but that one is still popular.

Then those 2 games were on one of the old maps. I am 100% certain you either panicked, or you were not in mac millan (new variants)/saloon/rancid abbatoir. My guess is it's the map thing not panic thing

Really? works for me. (not 100% of the times tho)

Too many hooks?

"House of Pain" and lower level of Badham Preschool would like to disagree.

Admitted that i havent tried on the new maps.

I disagree with the Oak offerings, our swf always use them when we play sabo, and we defo see an effect. Also as a former killer i felt the effect.

Yes. Sadly this is true. Sabo is no longer usable on it's own. You need whole team to sabo otherwise it's wasted effort while flash save is both easier, more reliable and less costly.

And these are all the results of recent patches where hook density only goes up. This absolutely wasn't the case at patch 6.0. And even though most people didn't care and those that did were admitting sabo is too hard (with ocasional complaint about boil over which I don't really get), we are still getting new maps that are even harder for sabo then previous one.

Why? I have no idea. But looking at this discussion it's shared sentiment that sabotages should be slowly deleted from this game.

I take your word for it. Whenever I tried it, RNG played much bigger role so I didn't keep statistically large enough sample to make informed decision (and basically almost stopped using the offering long time ago).

Still it's quite common to see better hook RNG without any offering then with stacked offering (which can be random fluke, but this absolutely does happen)

Yeah then killers complain that the hooks shouldn't break/permanently break when sacrificing lol

Saboing is already niche as it is, no need to make it worse

Not enough hooks.

Agree. Similarly, there is no need to make it better.