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Do Survivors want Killers or Party Clowns?
Comments
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Aware? I don’t think you were.
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It’s sad. I love horror. I was brought to this game because of my love for horror. All I want as a Killer is to make the matches scary, thrilling and exciting for the Survivors like a horror movie
However it doesn’t really feel that way. It feels like the Survivors are always bored when I play. I’m not a good Killer by any means but I still at least want the game to feel heart-pounding for the Survivors. They complete generators so fast that by the time I have 1-3 hooks the exit gates are open. Feeling like a punching bag as Killer doesn’t feel very horror themed to me in the slightest. Yes the Survivors will run away when I approach, but just barely, just out of reach.
I don’t even mind it when all of the Survivors escape since that happens in some scary movies. However, overall the Survivors as a generalized whole do not seem to fear the Killer anymore. Again as someone who loves the horror genre this makes me pretty sad considering how many awesome horror elements exist within the game.
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"Actual threat"? What does that mean lol it's a game that loses any semblance of horror and scariness within a few weeks. I just want some bp and shards.
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People will say absolutely anything to avoid confronting their lack of skill, huh? Look at any big killer streamer, they win more than 90% of their matches. Some like Scott Jund are just bored of playing killer due to how easy it is. Keep in mind you can always improve. You might need to improve your macro game, learning better awareness of everything going on in the map. Learning when to drop chase, improving your mindgames. Trust me, you'll enjoy the game more and find more ways to improve if you stop believing survivors have succeeded in their devious plot to neuter killers.
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I want the opposite.
In other words, the survivors should not complain no matter what tactics or tactics the killer government uses. I also don't complain when the survivors repair generators at high speed and escape from the chase.
Instead, AFC needs to be abolished. I don't do FC myself, but 16m is too wide. Please give me the right to protect both the generator before it is repaired and the hook that caught the survivors.
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Most of your win rate will probably be due to a large number of fights involving survivors who clearly have no chance of defeating you.
Imagine if there was a 5-man match where everyone was equally into both Survivor and Killer.
I think most M1 killers can fit in one sacrifice per game.
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play however you like, be a threat if you can. don't try to entertain survivors if you aren't having fun, basic stuff. let them dc, let them suicide on hook if they don't like the challenge you provide who cares.
this is a thing i'll never understand either, and people with such a view exist yes. "bully squads" are so much fun because you always have interaction instead of looking for people with distortion all match long. except ftp buckle up though, there is no interaction or a chance to counterplay for that.
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When I play survivor I want someone who will give fun and challenging chases. Some of my friends agree, others want someone who's going to goof around. Surprising as it may seem, different survivor players have different ideas of what they want in the game; just because people are playing the same overall role does not mean they necessarily share any of the same thoughts
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I promise killer is not that hard
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No it shouldn't. It should be earned through gameplay, not guaranteed because BHVR gave survivors an "I Win" button for every situation.
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I'll counter that with another question. Do killers want to play against survivors who can actually beat them or do they just want to bully bad players? How else do you explain the five dodges I get every time I play on my P100? Killers seem even more eager for easy matches than survivors do.
Literally all I want them to do is nerf Nurse and Blight. That is 100% reasonable to anyone who isn't completely biased in favor of the killer side. I just don't think they should balance killers around top 0.001% gameplay. You can balance around top 10% high MMR for sure but balancing around comp gameplay in DBD is beyond ridiculous. I've never advocated for killers being made significantly weaker across the board. At this point I don't even know what killers want other than MFT being nerfed. Behavior has listened to nearly every complaint killers have made and acted on it.
- DS - Dead
- Dead Hard - Dead
- Circle of Healing - Dead
- Iron Will - Nerfed
- Self Heals - Nerfed
- Gen times - Increased
- Maps - Many reworked and made smaller like killers asked for
- Prove Thyself and BNP - Nerfed
What have they not done at this point? Some of you just aren't ever going to be satisfied unless you have a 95% win rate. Survivors are far weaker than they used to be. I know because I put thousands of hours into killer when old dead hard was at its peak. A meta survivor team from that era was far stronger than a meta survivor team from today.
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This post is based on pointless tribalism and accomplishes nothing.
You should instead talk about something more objective that aims to help the health of the game.
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Actually crazy how both sides are just saying the other side wants them to be their punching bag.
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Multiplayer games work best when everyone has agency. They also work best when people interact with the opposite side in versus, or the same side in cooperative (even better if both at the same time). Due to the nature of this game, denying players of agency is required, but shouldn't be done any more than necessary.
When people chase/get chased and have options in chase, they have agency. When the Killer is forced to entity block too strong of a window with 3 vaults, they don't have agency, they have a flowchart. When a Survivor is facecamped and is forced to sit on hook and not end the match early, they don't have agency, they have a flowchart. Mechanics that give agency to agency-less situations should be encouraged and embraced. Mechanics that deny agency should be tooled to give agency.
Since this is a versus game, the skill of both sides comes into play. This also is a game where you can supplement a lack of skill with overpowering tools, like a giga-toolbox or Blight. As such, when each side brings those powerful tools, they are seeking victory at all costs. The other problem, is a player has no control over the caliber of their opposition. The match where I bring meme perks, can be met with a sweaty Nurse. The next match I could bring a giga-toolbox expecting fire to fight fire, but then I run into an add-onless Trapper. People too frequently bring forward stronger tools to counter the sweat they faced last match, and that leads to an arms race essentially. The best way to try to face this is do your best to not engage in the arms race, that's why I call this a party game, to not engage in a sweatlord mindset.
Part of the sweatlord mindset is lobby dodging, which is the current greatest threat to matchmaking. Lobby dodging causes an autofill player from any skill bracket to fill the lobby dodger's space. As such it increases the rate of being forced into outmatched lobbies for one side or the other.
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Question
If dodging lobbies starts to get punished(not as much as dcs but a ramping affect) and there was a queue with no items/add-ons for both sides would that be better? I guess the end result is that killers don't play add-on reliant killers and the general tier of killer goes up but I would still think that to be fair.
Blight with meta perks and no add-ons vs 4 decently meta perk survivors with no items would be pretty balanced for ex.
I know dbd players hate the idea of a penalty for game ruining bhvr but it needs to be punished to move forward. This game is so stomp or be stomped to an extent and that comes from the two big things you mentioned.
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I don't feel like a party clown.
More like a underdog fighting an oppressive and overwhelming force.
But from what I see on youtube: party clown it is.
Drop that Mario galaxy music!!!
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As a survivor, I want a killer who is trying to kill me. Killers messing about is fine on a rare occasion, but mostly it feels like a wasted trial for me. Sure, some enjoy it and I won't be upset if they get what they want rarely, but if it happens more than not it feels tedious and a waste of time for me.
As a killer, I go for hooks and kills and play the game as a killer. I may meme a little bit if something funny happens during the trial and I will help survivors if a bug traps them (I remember that bloody hill glitch where a dip would trap someone!), but ultimately I'll play as a killer would.
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If such a queue were to exist, I think that would make item perks remotely viable, and chests remotely worth wasting your time on them. That I view as a good thing.
It also is a bit strange though, because Killer add-ons can range from as worthless as Pyramid Head's to as overpowered as Blights. Plus many of the standard M1 variety almost 'need' their add-ons to remain remotely competitive. I admit I've crutched on Killer add-ons for near all of my time playing Killer, but it just feels weird not to play without them. Survivor items on the other hand don't feel as integral to the experience, and I often go into Survivor lobbies 'naked' on the item department. So I'm not fully sure about such a queue mostly for standard M1 Killers. Even a limited rarity add-on would seem strange, because some Killers can run Brown and Yellow like Huntress hatchet cooldown, but some other Killers might need Iri and Purple to be in that same league.
The strange thing is I've seen lobby dodges against the least effective things, like keys and flashies, more than a full 4 Toolbox squad.
As a similar yet still separate issue, I think we should have a distinct item model for each different item. We get it for each event item, so before you could bring an event Med-kit or Flashlight and the Killer wouldn't necessarily be scared since it was only a Yellow equivalent. I suppose the Flashlight part is the same, but Med-kit differences have been butchered, so they might as well all mean the same thing now. Assuming they don't go the route of hiding items from the onset like they are testing with Prestiges, I think having a separate model for items would help immensely. At the same time, it may have the same issue as Prestiges, with people dodging if they ever see too high of a number/rarity of item. In general though, I think lower skilled players still within top MMR are the main group that lobby dodge, so they likely see big number and run away. As such, they wouldn't be the ones to dodge a larger toolbox because they don't know enough about the game to actually know it was a better toolbox model.
As far as an escalating DC equivalent lobby dodge penalty, I think it might work at a 15s/30s/1m then jump sharply, but it resets to nothing after an hour from the most recent dodge. I believe the DCs reset daily, so I'm not sure they could re-use the same code for this theoretical lobby dodge ban. I do feel there are times that justify a lobby dodge, like people with a steam profile 8+ timezones apart, or valve bans on record double digit days ago. That's why I think 3 within an hour is enough for low penalties, especially if it resets the hour timer multiple times within a row like every 3rd normal match had a former cheater and you didn't want to risk it. I do think this lobby dodge penalty should be for both sides, but independently in play. That way if you dodge too many times you could still swap to the other role to wait out the timer.
Edit: (I borked the timers in the final paragraph, the mistake was 15s/30[MINUTES]/1m, the correction exists above.)
Post edited by mizark3 on1 -
I disagree and I've got 13,000 hours total and about 7,000 hours are in the killer role so it just depends on who you ask, I personally think if you feel like a party clown in 2023 it's a skill issue, at some point people have to admit they aren't the best killers in the world and climb off their high horse.
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Complete agree
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DBD has always just been a reskin of old-school Scooby-Doo. You know, the monster/killer pops up, looks slightly menacing, goes "rarrr", and ineffectually chases the gang/survivors around, who were never in any actual danger and could have left at any time.
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Pot shots at us for being honest won't help either ~
Regardless we got a genuine question at this point: What do you want for killers and how would you go about it? In depth if you can.
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No you're missing the point. People don't enjoy the game. They force themselves to play for some weird reason.
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This made me think of a funny quote from Demi Plays for when he was describing old DH for a build video. “When you are injured you press a singular button and win the entire game”
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Imagine having no interest in football but playing FIFA. Listen I don't get it, I only play what I'm interested in. Obviously I don't speak for everyone else, each to there own. But I don't think the community would be this bad if people knew what the word killer means
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I've notice my survivor queue times are getting longer each night. I said this was gonna happen. We want a horror experience not a scooby doo experience.
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Not a pot shot. You tried to attribute an argument I never made to me then brushed it off.
We? Who is we?
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Hese speakin French 🐀 🥖
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We is rulebreaker. They've always used we and us pronouns to refer themselves
You still haven't answered their question
Post edited by HaunterofShadows on4 -
You will have to explain. Sending what sunk cost means brings nothing to the table.
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Fair enough. Perhaps I missed it but they never answered mine. I have noted 2-3 answers to my original question in my thread despite many more posts.
It’s not though, it’s the core of the issue. If what Survivors want is a Party Clown to amuse them and BHVR is accommodating them, the game heads in a quite negative direction. There are some folks who are fine with this role but for the most part people want to feel strong when they play a role like Killer.
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Allow us to be clear then. Ayodam implied your bothered by human opponents. You dismissing it as you did (which is strangely missing) was not helping disprove that (your case). We're not brushing it off per day as we simply don't care.
We is the 3 of us who share this account. Or we're French. We'll never tell.
And you seem to not know what you want for killers or how to get it.
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That's fair. We want a fair and interesting challenge as survivor. We don't want clowns, but we don't want sweatlords either. We don't want to see the same thing time after time, nor do we want a lack of interaction such as camping. We want Abit of everything the game offers like the greedy birds we are.
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I play both side and have a lot of hours in both roles,I feel solo not that hard I escape mostly of my matches,what makes solo feel hard is who the killer is and how your team works.
I don't escape every match but your not meant too same with killer your not meant to 4k every match but killer is still the harder role. it depends on the killer you use and perks and add on used and map you end up on some killers will have easy time but a lot will have a hard time because most can't handle a match.
in other words both role can feel hard but the game is 1v4 game so the killer role is always harder.
also remember this game is random anything can happen to turn the match around.
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Not pulled from thin air. I’m familiar with OP and the assertion I made tends to undercurrent everything he posts. He isn’t shouting into the void, he’s saying the same stuff he always says. Lol
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I think how MMR weights outcome has a lot to do with skewed perception of the game and the feeling of unfairness.
That said, for me personally I play DBD because I'm a horror fan and what I want from DBD is a horror movie experience.
When I play survivor... I want killers who play as mean/viscous/nasty and unfairly as possible. I want to feel like I have to run from the killer or I'll die... rather than sink the killers time so my team can complete the objective as mechanically as possible.
When I play killer I ask myself what would Michael Myers/Jason Voorhees/Freddy Kruger/ Leatherface do in this situation and I act accordingly.
So yeah I'm sometimes a lil bummed when survivor tools make things generally easier over killer tools because it often waters down the horror experience. I understand mechanically why these changes exists but they do make the experience less horrifying and lets face it... less horrifying is not great for a horror game.
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Sorry I'm ending this conversation. Don't take it personally.
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No worries buddy. Lets just move on anyways. Have fun in the fog :)
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Fair enough
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I didn't want to re-open a kettle of fish here, I get where you are both coming from.
There is nothing I dislike more than when survivors as a team, every chase, just start running in circles around the nearest rock/junk/wall.
We aren't really mind gaming, using the terrain to its fullest or making interesting decisions at that point, we are playing mechanically not thematically.
Its a mechanism to sink killer time, you are gonna go down but you are gonna stay up long enough to waste time so others can complete gens sure I get it, looping works. But the hold W pallet save then attempt to rinse repeat does feel a lil Scooby Doo rather than Halloween, and perks that promote hold W tend to exacerbate this.
I think maps need more LOS blocking terrain or fog just needs to be thicker and more impactful in general. I don't know.
But if some player's motivation is to win a PVP game over playing a horror game, then you've gotta expect some "less interesting" more mechanical playstyles.
My hope would be that changes focus on the theme and thematic experience over mechanical competitiveness but that's not often the case. As the thematic aspects of the game tend to be viewed as problematic by those who play more mechanically, which is fine they often can be because of the unbalanced and asymmetric nature of the game.
That's how we get into the messy topic of are people fans of horror or not and should they be if they are playing DBD, because catering to fans who aren't here for the horror leads to more mechanical play, while catering to the horror tends to lead to more thematic but highly skewed play. The key is finding the balance between the two.
I think BHVR do an ok job of this but like all things it does tend to swing wildly.
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When I read your comment it sounded like you wanted them to create a killer that had no counters. But yea, I agree, counterplay shouldn't be handed to you but it should be available for you to use.
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Saying it was pulled out of thin air is generous. You are saying I am here arguing for Survivor bots when Survivor bots have been a readily available feature for almost a year. All perks are available at tier 3 in custom games, so there is no need for BP if playing against bots is someone’s goal.
I’m sure this will be torn apart, but you answered my question, so I will respond in kind.
HexHerbz put it well, it feels like Scooby Doo more than a horror film. I fear the game is too far gone to be anything else at this point.
The Killer should be someone you don’t want to get in the face of, style-on, taunt, or hang around with. That doesn’t mean Survivors don’t escape, but you can escape an intimidating antagonist without it being a joke at the end, even if the Killer was technically crushed.
Escaping Darth Vader in Jedi Outcast or, a more obscure example, Kirie in Fatal Frame are good illustrations of this. You may have played the part of the game easily but you still didn’t want to hang around.
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Only thing we can tare is the fact you skipped the second part of the question. We can't tell you what you want after all.
Though we would like to say that players have to work to be intimidating (whether or not killers should be by default is a matter of opinions) as both sides are "fighting" for dominance. Most times when survivors try facing off they end dead quickly with just about anyone because we put in the effort to out play them (or out smart in alot of cases). When we fail it's because they usually out play us (we're going to politely ignore the maps messing with us).
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The only sane person here Jesus Christ half of the chat is 1 guy complaining about how “weak” killer is if survivors are good and his word is gospel because he has 3k hour
Bruh half of the comment section is you complaining about killer being “weak” when survivors are good? As someone who has no idea how many hours they have, you just sound like you have a massive skill issue
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