Is this really the state of affairs in DBD?
Comments
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What goes around comes around, and 50% of toxicity is your perception. By that I mean;
The killer smacking you on the hook, or the survivors teabagging in the exit, aren't necessarily intentionally trying to piss you off. They may just be celebrating their own victory or intending it as some cheeky "banter".
Or the killer who left you but then came back to tunnel you, didn't do so intentionally, you're just the first survivor they encountered again.
But you perceive that as 'toxic' and it sours your mood and your interpretation of all of their actions. When you're expecting toxicity, you'll see it everywhere, sometimes when it's not there to begin with. This makes you more likely to get 'defensive' and play in a "toxic" way yourself. Perpetuating the cycle.
Sometimes you just need to lighten up, accept that in many cases camping, tunnelling, and survivors all escaping, are going to happen and are actually just part of the game. Sometimes you give the killer the opportunity to camp/tunnel, sometimes your mistakes are why the survivors escape. It's a game, wash it off and go again.
As a console player, I encounter very little real toxicity. No endgame chat means you have to make more of an effort to reach out to players. I'd say 95% of my PSN interactions are positive ones. The toxic players are the ones who have their PSN set to friends only, they attract toxicity through their own attitude and actions, or don't have the sense of humour to cope with unfavourable situations.
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Its really none of your business. Leave parenting to the child's parents.
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Basekit DS would Survs wanting to be tunneled to make the killer waste even more time, same ppl do with Basekit BT
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Thanks for explaining your point of view. I can see what you're talking about. I, too, usually expect 2~ gens to be completed by the time I get done with my first chase if the survivors are efficient or they split up. Corrupt Intervention generally helps with this situation but I won't imply we should fix X problem with Y perk because I know better and understand perks trying to band-aid core issues never helps with the balance of this game.
There's always a chance for both sides to make a comeback and most of the time first few gens popping doesn't hold much meaning but I still get what you're referring to. Unfortunately, easiest way to apply pressure is to target one survivor and Killers choose to do that.
I don't want to shame anyone for the way they play but also expecting a survivor to not be upset when they got thrown out of the game so early is hypocritical. People can play however they want but that doesn't mean everybody else has to comply and bowdown to their rules or not have any opinions about it. Your playstyle doesn't nullify their gaming experience. Waiting some time in queue just to be sent back to the lobby in a couple of minutes isn't fun and games should be fun.
(Last paragraph is a general statement and not personal to you Akuma!🫶)
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You are completely right.
Kids should not play this game. It's at their own and their parrents risk, because not only a "gory expirience" that this game brings, no one knows at the end-game chat that they're talking with a kid. The end-game chat is a 50\50 of being nice of not.
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I don't want to restrain my self from speaking, just because I was playing with a kid, who should not even be in here in the first place.
I personally think that there should be a reason to report and block the account for that kid, if I see a kid playing a gory game.
If a child's parents don't give a sh about what their child playing or watching, their parent licence should be removed.
I would never let my kid watch or play something like DBD. It can harm a kid in a very disturbing way.
And btw, it's in everyone jurisdiction to report that to the developers and they should act with all seriousness.
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Evil Incarnate is notoriously difficult though but I still don't wanna get killed at 5 gens. I got killed first last week by a tombstone Myers, didn't have any lockers close to me :(
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Have you played SoloQ? My matches are seldomly relaxed.
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Thanks for your nice response, don't worry, no offense taken <3 This is the kind of interaction that I also look for in my games: opposing, but respectful and both taking the other side into account. You said so in an earlier statement: if you look for toxicity, then you will find it everywhere, and I certainly have fallen into that trap myself. I know that not every t-bag is a vile disregard, or a single slap on the hook some extreme toxic behaviour, but there is surely a lot in the game, and its often fueled by frustration and bitterness towards the other side.
Playing both sides and walking in the others boots for a couple of miles helps a lot in coming to terms with this, but I would still say that the amount of hate, redicule and BM that a typical killer faces is way out of proportions to that what might happen to a survivor. When the killer slaps me on the hook till my meat is tender, then thats a somewhat remarclable occurence, while I see survivors waiting till the very last second at the exit gates, just to show me their twerking skills, every singel game and the games where it doesn't happen, that are the ones that make me pause and take notice.
But thats tangential, we are not talking about BMing and bad behaviour.
Yes of course, the game isn't over at 2 gens left, but thats the entire early game fast-forwarded in a singular chase. Once this three early gens pop, we left the early game, skipped the midgame and went straight to the finishing mile. Old Skull Merchant was so reviled for her 60min 3-gen-tactic, because she could pull this off. No other killer can hold a 3 gen reliable for any amount of time, even Blight and Nurse can only counter it by downing survivors faster then they can rescue and heal themselves, but pure gen defense is basically impossible. So, when you enter the lategame with a single hook, what are your prosespects as the killer? Still going for 8 hooks before a kill? The only real proposition is going to tunnel that one guy on the hook as hard and as fast as possible, then, only then, you might have enough of a breather to pressure the remaining survivors enough that you might eek out a win. But if you let that hooked survivor go and go for someone else, what is that going to accomplish that? In the same vain, going after that survivor might incite some survivor to let go of a gen and offer themselve up as bait and take hits, which also generates more breathing room for the killer. BUT of course, seeing this will also rile up the survivors on the gens who never saw so much as a whiff of the killer to get angry and grumble and make sure that this gens get done ASAP.
My unpopular opinion is that this first 3 gens fly way too fast and too easy. With 2 gens remaining the killer is backed against the wall and the gloves come off. Anything before this and a lot (not all, of course) of them might be ok with playing the chase game and even go for a different survivor, like in the olden days. Hyperefficiency helps to win games, but it also drives the other side into a position to do the same, and thats why both sides optimized the parts of their job description that they have the best access to: slamming gens/gen before friends on one side and camping/tunneling on the other side. We can't make players unlearn this skills, so its up to BHVR to change the rules of their game in a way to incentivice this. And as you might have heared in school or psych classes: the carrot and the stick both work, but for different reasons. Up until now BHVR has mostly used the stick, by making certain options unfavorable or unreliable, but I think that we need more carrots in the game.
Basically, here is what I have proposed about a dozen times on other threads:
1) give killers old BBQs bonus blood points back, ie +25% per unique survivor hooked, BUT only increase the counter so long as all survivors are alive.
2) give killers a mini BBQ basekit by showing them the aura of one yet unhooked survivor after a hooking event - most peeps don't realize how old BBQ promoted a healthy game: everyone had it equipped for the blood points, but the aura reading also showed opportunities and peeled killers away from the hook.
3) give the game some kind of comeback mechanic: when the rating between hooks and gen percentage done is too one sides, make The Entity interfere: block gens, spawn medkits in a corner, spawn or eat a pallet as needed, but try to keep the game rolling.
4) give the survivors a gen repair bonus for each dead survivors, so early tunnels will result in faster survivor.
Something like this. Its not perfect, but we somehow need to make killers go for more hooks and not tunneling a survivor early, but also for the killer to not sabotage themselves by doing so.
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Imma be real with you, when I play survivor I only play SoloQ, even though you have less chances to win as a SoloQ player, it's nowhere as stressful as playing killer.
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This is a question I often ponder, as its a common thread for people to talk about killer being more stressful and scarier than survivor.
I mean what??
Its not a good thing in a survival horror if the protagonist is scarier and more deadly than the antagonist.
Just makes me wonder sometimes.
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I only play solo. (with the exception of a few matches, where i played with someone from the forum)
The only thing i find annoying is how my teammates suicide for no reason.
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I probably should wear this.
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That also means, that survivors take the game to seriously, when they dc/suicide because the game doesn´t go their way. When it actually is just a game.
I mean, seriously. Escaping is nothing more than a 5k bloodpoint bonus. Yet, some people behave like the killer harmed their pet or something, when they don´t escape.
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so, tunneling isn't a thing but it is a guaranteed "L"?
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It's down to the format of the game. Killer only has themselves to rely on to do everything. Meanwhile if another survivor is occupying the killer, you're likely free to relax and just tackle your objectives as you wish.
I also predominantly play solo survivor and rarely have stressful games unless other survivors are being completely incompetent.
In fact I find survivor the most fun when I'm either in a well coordinated team who happen to complement each other, so you're on top of everything and it's not stressful at all. Or when I'm the last remaining and trying to evade the killer. It's the good kind of stressful like a real survival horror game should be.
Killer is the bad kind of stressful, where you just have too much to do and not enough hands to carry it all.
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I get the pragmatics of it.
What I often ponder is the seeming need to ensure that all survivors are viable for a "full game".
Spawning in a game and dying in < 5 mins is not always a great gaming experience, but the threat of that happening is what made DBD exciting a survivor.
It was a scary prospect to be found by the killer simple because it could nullify your ability to participate and even remove you entirely. Chases were sweaty because the stakes were so high.
I feel like the stakes are much lower on the survivor end these days. (to clarify I'm not saying survivor is easy, just the costs of interaction with the killer have generally gone down).
I get mechanically why, because they want players to feel like they can stay in game for longer than 5 mins especially if waiting in a 10 min queue to get in.
The byproduct of that though was the tension kinda fell out of the bottom of the game, leading to the antagonist juggling the protagonists for longer, while the protagonists have less to fear from the antagonist.
Neither of these are good things on the whole when it comes to survival horror.
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Calling this a long stretch would be an understatement...
I started playing the killer role. For years no issue. Good matches, bad matches. Nothing extraordinary. Then people claimed how harder survivor is compared to killer. So i started to play survivor, to see if its really that hard. Long story short, it felt like a different game way easier, more relaxed. I didn´t had to juggle 4 survivors, i only had to effectively complete 1 or 2 gens, do a totem or 2 (now optional). Get some rescues and escape.
The biggest threat to survivors are other survivors. Thats something i´ve been saying for a very long time and it still holds. I´ve encountered my fair share of teammates that dc/suicide when the match doesn´t go their way. Dooming the rest of the team to a loss. But the forum is full of people that defend this behavior or even recommend it. Because its playing against killer XXX. Who isn´t liked.
Fact is, if the 4 survivors are on the same skill level than the killer, the survivors will stomp the killer. There are only a hand full of killers who can stand a chance, if they play in a certain (mainly unliked) way. Other than that, no killer will get his 8 hooks and then start to kill, in the same time it takes survivors to finish the 5 gens.
Its no secret that in most matches, survivors complete 2 or 3 gens by the time the killer gets his first hook. Simply because a chase will take its time. Especially on certain tiles. While survivors usually spawn next to gens and can start with little to no downtime. No downtime, because Hex Perks are no threat anymore. No one would spend time searching for Ruin, because its a waste of time in comparison to just doing gens. Which contributes to how quickly gens get done and how killers struggle to keep survivors in check. I simply can´t blame a killer for camping or tunneling, when he lost 3 gens after the first chase. Having a 5 minute match is as entertaining for the killer as getting tunneled is for survivors.
There seems to be a general lack of empathy towards the other side in the game. If you don´t agree with an opinion, you get called a XXX main and everything you say gets disregarded as biased opinion. But if more people would play both sides and not just for a daily. Then more people would see how unbalanced the game is. I really don´t blame the devs here. Its a 4vs1. So one side will always be louder than the other. Just look at the flashlight exploit we had during the release of the Xeno. Tons of people complained when they kill switched flashlights. Twitter and Reddit were full with people complaining that they got robbed of their flashlights, when it was just fun. Or payback for whatever wrong they perceived in the past. Completely disregarding how the killers felt during that weekend. How awful it was to play, having almost every match someone who would attempt to keep the killer hostage.
Now i´ve spend way to much time on this answer. Which will probably be disregarded as nonsense by a biased killer main. But meh, i just had to get this of my chest.
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I stand by what I said.
I am also not debating with you on a public forum about this.
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As @Seraphor pointed out. Its a bad kind of Stress.
Survivors can see what their teammates do at all time. They see what affects them, who got hooked, who is getting chased, etc. With all the responsibility shared between the 4.
The killer has to keep track of who he hooked how often, while keeping track of the progress of the gens, what perks the survivors were using (DH, MfT can drag out a chase for a very long time), etc. All by himself.
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Saying "DBD has one if not the most toxic and generally speaking worst community someone can think off" because people tryhard and say "gg ez" in end game chat is quite endearing ngl. Preserve your innocent soul and don't play any multiplayer FPS game ever please.
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Interesting point of few. Gaming communitys must be in a really bad place right now if toxic behavour is fine. But hey, my innocent soul lasted for over 25 years in gaming, i might make another year or two until it falls apart. Sidenote: I have played infamous toxic games like LoL, but even there its not nearly as bad as it is in DBD. I might not be alone with that complain either, at least according to countless steam reviews that agree how miserable this community is.
But i am glad you enjoy that stuff. I wish you could take this burden of my slim shoulders.
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The state of the game is a bit unbalanced
Perks are either strong or weak... barely any that are in the middle
Maps are either Killer favored or Survivor favored... barely any that are in the middle
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Then i play against extremly bad survivors 80% of the time.
Some may argue that a killer will (almost)never face a single DS if you are not tunneling. DS, like i said, should have a simple rule: It deactivates once a survivor is doing a healing, cleansing, repairing or sabotaging action.
If the killer really eats a DS with those perk restrictions, the survivor did either nothing (which is arguable the worst survivors can do) or the killer simply tunneled. And if, for whatever reason, the survivor takes a down for a teammate, the killer can still slug that person and go for the next one. The pressure he creates with 2 downs is in a normal game already loosing condition to survivor teams.
I would even be fine showcasing the killer that the survivor has DS.
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And another day in paradise.
First game hard tunnel by 5K hours Nurse, could run her for a good minute. During that time, 1 gen was touched. Funny enough because of my recent experience, i thought i bring DS, better then nothing. Tunneled of hook, she eats ds. Tunnel more, gets the down relative quick since i dont gain any distance. Getting camped to death. 1 Gen done.
2nd game random gets destroyed after 30 seconds in the game because of afk. Blight tunnels the random off the hook. I have 1 gen done, while the team is doing pumpkin smashing. Game is a 3v1. Ends pretty quick.
3rd game Mastermind. Goes for me first, after 1-2 minutes we have the first gen. He gives up. Goes for a random, gets the down. Tunnels him off the hook. We are in 3v1 2 gens up. We loose the game.
Its not even that killer goes for a second person meanwhile, just straight tunnel.
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So, what good players will do is none of those things and body block. Know that you have to tear through an automatic BT would warn you, but if you drop then and lose track of time and pick them up too soon it's punishing. That's what old DS bully squads were doing. That's why it got so bad in the first place.
Showing DS to killer is an interesting idea. Not very thematic considering the source material, but balancing.
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I beg to differ. I find playing a game with potato teammates (which is a good chunk of my game) pretty stressful.
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You are talking about a time when DS had no downside. Those so called bully squads (who were more trolls then actually good teams) could heal and still had DS up - that was the point. Without beeing able to do that, DS would not work that way.
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Easy example how you fail the see how good basekit DS can be. I get unhooked with DS, if the killer is trapper, hag, demogorgon,singularity,skull merchant,pinhead and so on you can cleanse/destroy their traps/props and still be completely safe because of DS. The killer might not even be tunneling then WOOP all their setup is gone and if they go for the survivor who is taking away the setup they still get DSd and lose time for it, they are in a lose-lose situation.
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No, it wouldn't. Survivors just do nothing for 60 seconds so even if you downed and hooked someone else, even two other people, they'd still have it and hit you with it. Someone else being hooked should deactivate it, period.
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Killers want to do event stuff and survivors want to gen rush typically. The event in general feels like it's poorly designed and encourages slugging for killers to maximize points gained from it. Also eliminating 1 person drastically increases pressure the killer puts on survivors and with how survivors have been lately i don't really blame them.
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This the number of comments on my steam profile. The overwhelming majority of them are "colourful" remarks from people I played with in DbD.
This is a folder I've created a little while ago with screen shots of more "colourful" remarks I received in the end-game chat. Some of the things that have apparently provoked the people I've played with into sending insults, unhinged rants, and demands for my immediate suicide include:
- Playing a certain killer
- Using certain add-ons
- Using certain perks
- Not chasing them enough
- Chasing them too much
- Tunnelling
- Tunnelling (When I didn't)
- Camping
- Camping (When I didn't)
- Slugging to avoid being pallet stunned
- Slugging to avoid being blinded
- Slugging because other survivors were nearby
- Bringing a mori
- Bringing a hatch offering
- Bringing a map offering
- Nodding or shaking my head
- Having too many hours in the game
- Existing
It's not an exaggeration to say that the DbD community is filled with the most toxic, entitled people I've ever encountered in my years of playing online games. I seriously have people who have held grudges against me for over 3 years because of something that happened in a game we played together 😐️
It's pretty wack.
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Stressing about potato teammates is something you choose to do, while being focused 100% of the time on killer is mandatory.
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Recently i´m also seeing lovely comments on my profile from my former teammates. Because i played in a way, they didn´t like.
Our community is really something.
My profile is like a timeline when i take a break from DbD. Suddenly the comments stop.
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That is a fair argument. On top of that, we both forgot something else. What if a survivor lets say runs into a hag trap and gets downed. The hag might not even have tunneled and the survivor just randomly ran into that trap.
I think an option would be base kit DS, but it would not hurt if the timer is only 30-45 seconds. It is really not that easy to find a great solution to that problem.
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Yeah this was addressed a few posts back I'm well aware of the mechanical and behavioural concept.
Just the point is survivor is supposed to be scary, the scare element here comes from the high stakes complete inability to participate or elimination if caught.
These days there is less impact of being caught so all the stressors present for killer are largely still there but a lot of the cost to survivor for being caught has been attenuated in an effort to increase player, participation and game time.
i.e you don't just insta kill people with mori's anymore, greater limits of insta down mechanics, anti-camp. All designed to increase survivor game time, which is good from a player participation point but kinda bad from a scary survival horror point.
The key source of fear for survivors is non-participation and elimination, so without that what are survivors to be scared and by in large stressed about?
The threat is going in the wrong direction.
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It makes sense from a business standpoint, for selling skins/DLC chapters/battlepass.. player experience is more important than being faithful to original DBD, this game is different now it's not really survival horror, it's played like every other competitive pvp games, most players follow meta builds/try to play optimally
for example new sadako can still insta kill at 0 hooks pretty consistently, for me it's really not the best thing this game has to offer, I find it more annoying than scary
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Yeah I absolutely get it.
I just miss when I used to sweat playing survivor, because I really needed to get away from the killer or I was done for, like a real horror movie.
One could make the argument that the appeal of the horror experience will make people buy stuff because of the unique horror experience, I know I was more invested in the game when it was scarier and lil more unfair. Both as killer and survivor.
The reality tends to be different though, to profit you need to "broaden appeal", which means we need the same bland oatmeal everyone else is serving because it broadly appealing and inoffensive, so more people in general will consume it.
Its the trend, the moment someone in a design role says the words "broaden appeal" the you know your on the slow train to banality.
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Can your niece - who do'nt even have the recommended age to play this game - get consistently 4Ks? Or its just in a single match? Really, i know some streamers that can get nice matches playing a match not focusing hooks into one person, but spreading through the whole team of survivors. And yet, those streamers have 8k to 10k hours of DBD, facing people with 2 to 3k hours. And they endure a lot of losses because of this, but its their playstile.
Sorry, but if your niece keeps playing with a tier B/C (even some A tier), eventually she will get to a point where most of the time the first chases will lead to 3 to 2 gens lost, even being very fast chases. Its not about the killer, but the current state of the game: people are getting better and better at doing objectives, doing gens even faster. If you spread hooks through everyone, you will get to the end of the game with everyone dead on hook but alive enough to leave.
Tunneling and camping cannot be seen OBJECTIVELY as toxic gameplay, mostly because its not a personal thing. Except for cases where the killer knows the survivor he/she is facing, they will use every strat at their power to ensure a win (as survivors do) .
I think that once most understand that tunneling and camping are tools to solve some core design problems of the game, they will abandon this mindset of "camping is toxic" to understand that this is not personal, but a way of playing to achieve a win.
Tunneling and camping does not lead to a certain win: there is some situations where camping and tunneling can be detrimental to the killer, as the survivor team can play efficiently around gens and even secure the escape of the target survivor depending on everyone perks.
Really, if that is your experience with the game, you should consider find some friends to play with, or play another thing. I have fun playing DBD as Solo Survivor, SWF and playing killer. If there is a time where i cannot enjoy it anymore, i will play another game for sure, as games are a way to relax and feel good, not feel stressed about it.
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You fix it by removing SBMM. There was still games where people camped and tunneled hardcore back in the day but, it wasn't as common as it is now. The trash talking you can't do much about as that'll be in every multiplayer game but, MMR you can do something about and it would have games be more fun as Killer and Survivor cause it wouldn't be like a comp match all the time.
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Well no. I hated that perk. Just like the camping mechanics they added, maybe they can explore some straight tunneling mechanics as well.
I'm all about fair gameplay. But we all know playing "fair" ruins killers matches. We need to fix that!
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I do agree that nerfing the stun duration of DS was a mistake, but only like half of people running actually used it to, you know, escape a tunneling. A huge chunk of survs running it ran it offensively, and would plaster themselves all over the killer after being unhooked (much like people bodyblocking with basekit BT now). This sort of crap is why we can't have nice things.
And like many problems with DBD, it's much more of a player issue than a game design issue.
Still, I would revert the DS stun duration nerf (but keep the end game deactivation). If I had even a shred of confidence it wouldn't be abused, I'd even back buffing the DS stun duration to something really punishing, like 7+ seconds. Something to put even the orange glyph to shame.
Hell, add no scratch marks/pools of blood/grunts of pain for 10 seconds. Try tunneling then.
This line is the BS habitual tunnelers sell themselves to justify tunneling and quiet the cognitive dissonance that tells them better. I never tunnel in the first half of matches, play pretty fairly generally (as in I almost never sweat), am at least at the MMR soft cap, and very rarely don't get at least 1K, and average between 2-3.
Can you beat a highly experienced and coordinated SWF without tunneling? Probably not. But no one is facing those every game. Or even a quarter of the time. There is no "TOP MMR" where you have to play like your life depends on it just to compete. That's a proven myth; DBD's SBMM is simply nowhere near effective enough for that. Most matches are a mixed bag.
I'm not saying people should never tunnel, just that it's generally not necessary, and that as a killer people should let the match breathe a bit to see if it is. Most times, it's not at all. Unless of course they are someone with an ego so fragile they NEED to get a 4K every time.
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I get tunneled (like really tunneled) maybe 1 in every 10 games. It's anecdotal, but I just don't see the mass tunneling some people talk about.
And while you can't advance objectives without losing DS protection, the "conspicuous actions" list isn't comprehensive enough. Remove the ability to interact with the killer at all (remove collision) to the perk, and I'd be all for buffing the hell out of it. Like make it so you're all but guaranteed to get away, but literally nothing else.
Increase the stun duration to 7 seconds, give the surv haste for 10 seconds, with no scratch marks, blood pools, or grunts of pain for like 20-30 seconds. This kind of immunity would be truly unprecedented, and would all but guarantee the end to a tunnel, but would need to pretty much preclude doing anything else as the trade off.
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Unfortunatly, this is not the case for me. Sure, you have those games where the killer plays a normal round but i have noticed that those games became much more rare as it used to be.
There are often games where the killer comes back to the hook and at least hits the unhooker first and only then runs for the unhooked person, but even that seems only happen when it gives the killer even a bigger advantage.
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I agree. Too many tilt queue or queue when having a bad day. There are a lot of angry individuals who see a slight infraction as a reason to bleed someone out / post on twitter/ click. Most of the casual players left because of how tryhardy this game has become. Of course people will say that tunneling is a strategy, but when It happens every game, imagine how new players feel, or how boring it is. Or when you play killer and you get a bunch of ayrun watchers trying to get a sick tiktok baby killer montage clip. It doesn’t even feel rewarding to win anymore. Just my 2 cents
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This is the definition of toxic. “I get joy out of upsetting people let’s go!” Lmao
Youre exactly what people are talking about when they say how toxic this community is. Congrats.
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Not really no, i do nothing wrong, i never insult people in chat, i never use slur or anything else, 99% i just say "ggs".
Then if people are mad because i tunnel or else and start to throw insults at me, make death wish or anything else well i find that's so damn fun to see how people can be mad over a game online and yes that's so damn hilarious
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DS could not be used as a weapon because its activation condition was entirely up to the killer. All you had to do was not pick up the survivor that got pulled off the hook in the last 60 seconds before they performed a conspic action.
I've been hit by DS -once-, and it was an obvious bait that I fell for. Entirely my fault. I've never been hit by DS again afterwards, and not for lack of trying.
DS needs to go back to 5 seconds of stun.
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The game is getting more and more survivor favored, more basekit buffs, uncounterable survivor combos (such as ftp + bu), free permanent speed boosts (and don't say being injured is a risk, all survivors do is 99 their heal so they aren't at risk whatsoever), now can run 200% speed for guaranteed pallet saves and guaranteed flashlight saves if survivors don't go down at a wall (which is in THEIR power, mind you), accessibility buffs for survivors only, regression perks oractically being removed from the game, removal of kick gen viability which originally encouraged killers to not chase to tunnel, and survivors being able to completely disable killer powers and turn them into weak m1 killers for the past few killers.
Unless you're playing broken nurse or blight, and especially if you're playing an m1 killer, tunneling is practically mandatory. If you want to know why, just ask BHVR - they are the ones strongly encouraging tunneling.
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OTR is better and would be better even if old DS came back.
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