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Tunneling
Go ahead and say what you want about it being efficient but I wait 10 minutes to queue into a game just to be tunneled with lethal/UW and killed at 5 gens in the first 2 minutes of the game while being hit on hook for no reason. It's been 7/7 games now. Haven't even had a chance to touch a gen or get in a chase. Killer sits just outside the hook radius and waits for someone to come and then tunnels down.
Y'all really have fun playing like that? I'm not asking you to throw the game and let survivors win just why be so sweaty dude? It's not for money? Chill out
Comments
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"Y'all really have fun playing like that?"
Yes i do, next question ?
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I feel for you and I try not do this if I can avoid it. Sadly the game is not meant for casual players the game has shifted more to the competitive side in my opinion. They also absolutly gutted DS in my opinion with killers like Deathslinger able to bypass it with ease. These are just my opinions. If they buff DS back to it's old 5 second stun then I think everything will be better not ideal but I think survivors have a better chance.
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Waiting 10 min for a match?
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5-10 minute waits for survivor rn. I mix it up between survivor and killer but survivor wait times are bad
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Must be that time of the year again. 🤔
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Did I miss the part where the survivor is accountable for failing to escape the chase and have access to every pallet on the map at the start?
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Oh it's about to go down! Where can I follow this social experiment?😎
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Alright, so lets do some math here.
- Match starts and the killer has Lethal and picks a survivor and decides to hard tunnel them immediately.
- Survivors often spawn on the opposite end of the map as the killer and generally somewhat spread out to take at least 1-2 gens immediately with the 3rd taking a few seconds.
- Average map size is 100x100 square meters, so in order to cross the other end of the map, assuming killer spawns around 16 meters into the map, and objectives spawn around 16 meters into the map, it will take the killer 14.8 seconds to reach the survivors.
- Around 32 meters in the survivors should start hearing the terror radius and should be able to start reacting to them
- Let's assume you have terrible reaction time, and don't start running away for about 3 seconds, meaning the killer is now 22.2 meters away from you.
- Lets assume you are really bad at the game, and don't use any pallets or windows, but just shift +w away
- The killer gains 0.6 meters of distance and needs to get within 3.61 meters to do a lunge at max range.
- It takes the killer 30.9 seconds to hit you.
- You get as peed boost, giving you a distance of 14.4 meters.
- The killer takes 18 seconds to catch up and hit you again
- The killer is in hit animation for 2.7 seconds
- The killer picks you up for 3 second animation
- The killer walks to a hook taking ~10 seconds
- The killer hooks you taking 1.5 seconds for animation
Now, you have been hooked 1 time, and the total match time as been:
14.8 + 30.9 + 18 + 2.7 + 3 + 10 + 1.5 = 80.9 seconds.
Even if the killer stood right on the hook, and you used AFC to unhook yourself, and let the killer hit you twice without moving, and then hooking you again. It would still take another:
7 + 15 + 2.7 + 2.7 + 3 + 1.5 = 31.9 seconds per hook.
How exactly are you "getting tunneled out in 2 minutes with 5 gens remaining? What are you doing to go down so fast? What is your team doing such that after 2 minutes of the killer completely ignoring them they haven't completed at least 3 generators?
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Unfortunately this is the problem. Dead by Daylight is a party game that isn't suitable for anyone who isn't looking to grind their face against a wall. Party games have mechanics to try and keep players in the match for as long as possible (as it's boring for less skilled players to to be eliminated early). But the most effective thing you can do in this game as killer is target the weakest player and eliminate them. It just feels like bad game design if the game is designed around casual fun.
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If it truly was a "party game" then the killer would not be playable, and would instead be a bot.
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No my friend, DbD it is NOT a "party game" , it's a PvP game
Then, if you decide to play it casual, to have a party with your friends, to spend time doing dances around the generator it's up to you but you can't blame ME if i play to win because that's how the game it's mean to be
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Bear with me, this is my first time trying something like this. I hope I set everything up correctly ^_-
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It's very simple : if a killer wants to win, tunneling is kind of a must. (It's the last META move left)
I rarely do tunnel myself BUT ... I mostly play Nurse and I slug a lot.
Choose your poison.
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Well its either tunnel and have a chance to get a 3-4k as a weaker killer or don't tunnel and lose out on any kills.
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It's a PvP game that is so fundamentally unbalanced that it can never really stand as a properly competitive game. It's a swirling vortex of RNG, imbalance, and godawful matchmaking, with a sprinkle of skill requirement. It isn't and can never really be a true contest of PvP skill.
If people want to feel like winning at DbD means anything, that's their prerogative, but it's pretty silly, imo. Going into every single public match trying to play "optimally" (i.e. tunneling for killer) like there's some kind of skill/strategy calculus that needs to be run is positively comical.
Hard tunneling right out of the gate is obviously the most efficient route to wins, but it's also totally unnecessary like 90% of the time, and it's also the lowest skill, most "path of least resistance" way to play killer. And it's positively miserable for survivors. Not miserable because they have been overwhelmed by the killer's skill, mind you, but because the way the game is designed there just isn't much they can do.
I mean if all that matters to you as a killer in the end are the numbers, then knock yourself out, you bought the game and it isn't violating any rules. But it sure doesn't seem like fun to me.
I can just never understand playing this game with that mindset when there so many PvP games out there that are actually balanced and properly competitive.
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I take the OP as an exaggeration-for-effect for sure, but if the killer finds you first, and decides to tunnel you out (and they aren't a total potato), there is a non-zero chance you end up having spent more time in lobby than in the match.
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Not to mention all the bugs introduced with each update on top of what you've already listed. How can anyone take the competitive scene of this game seriously is beyond me LOL...
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Your experiment is already flawed as killers do not always spawn on opposite sides of the map as the survivors. Not how the RNG works. I’ve had killer spawn on top of more times than I can count. It’s common to spawn next to a generator and the moment I touch it the killer is right there due to lethal.
Also keep in mind not every killer has a terror radius. There are stealth killers like Myers, Ghostface, Wraith, Pig.
Lastly, unless you’re a god tier looper there’s no counter to tunneling if the killer is set on tunneling you out of the game. Tunneling takes no skill, no perks, no add-ons to be effective at. And if you’re a sweatier killer who brings IRI instadown add-ons, it’s very easy for the killer to down you within 20-30 seconds into the match, hook you, move back to proxy camp and then come right back to tunnel you off hook.
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"But it sure doesn't seem like fun to me"
TO YOU, that's the point. TO YOU it's not fun
TO ME it is fun and i couldn't care less what do you think about what do YOU think MY fun should be
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If you get tunneled out at the start of the game and die with no gens getting done, then there's a skill issue somewhere.
Either your teammates are not doing gens or you are not lasting very long chase making you an ideal target to focus out first.
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Thanks for keeping up with my shennanings, Venusa <3
So, what do you say? Besides the couple of potatoes that the MMR system threw me, most of the games were like I described: the first chase decided everything, if I whiffed, the game was pretty much in the survivors lap then and there, if I got an early down, it was kinda in the open, but gens would soon fly around my ears left and right and I could either press the advantage and tunnel that first survivor or go down with 1 hook.
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I understand the hate for getting facecamped, because it is boring. But i don't understand the hate for getting tunneled. I LIKE getting tunneled, because it means i'm not sitting and holding m1 for 90 seconds with my thumb up my ass.
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Their fragile ego might sustain quite a lot of damage if they don't make the game easy mode asap by turning it into 3vs1 so they can win and attempt to fill that empty void caused by oh so many things wrong in their lives.
Whenever I get tunneled they usually waste the entire match trying and end up rage quitting.
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You sound fun. Reminds me of those people in ffxiv who play terribly (like how people have to tunnel to win) and cry "YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB."
Yikes.
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Simple anwser MMR/SBMM. Makes people play more sweaty on both sides. Before MMR there was way less tunneling and camping back in the day now it's everywhere.
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Yesterday I literally had a 300h player in my lobby getting replaced (drop out) by a 3000h player. It happened right before my eyes :D
Nature at work is awesome and humbling.
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It was fun to watch! To be very honest while watching you I felt like MMR was too wonky and random to test out these kind of situations properly.
Because sometimes you would get the most potato (I say this lovingly) survivors and the other match you would get e-sports legends. Some matches you didn't go out of your way to tunnel but still won and some I felt like if you didn't deliberately try to tunnel maybe you could have gotten more than 1K. It was all very random as expected because DBD is like that. I wouldn't even say you hardcore tunneled most of your matches like I described. You were playing casually and your strategy changed based on how the game was going and some survivors were straight up asking to be tunneled. So many variables!
That's why I always said I don't think tunneling is a necessity and it's better to be used as a strategy depending on how the match is going. Loading into a match with the "I need to tunnel someone out asap or I lose" mindset is an exaggerated and stressful way to play the game.
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I really would have liked to watch this. But there is no VoD. Can you keep me updated when you stream the next time, please?
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The fact that you had to wait 10 minutes for a match, should tell you everything.
Have you tried playing killer instead?
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I think I will try to stream tonight, again. Should be around 10pm european time
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PvP games can't be party games? Guess I missed the memo.
You don't play the game "the way it's meant to be played". You play the way you want to. That's not objective game design, that's just a preference. Just because someone chooses to play super sweaty doesn't make the game competitive. Dead by Daylight is loaded with RNG, jank and all kinds of crap. I have no idea why players would look at that and come to the conclusion that the game is intended to be a sweatfest. If that were the case, BHVR wouldn't have matchmaking that hands free wins to killers by adding random potatoes to survivor squads.
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I get that playing killer can be rough at times, but I've played solo queue for two years. The amount of awful, unplayable matches I've suffered through is unreal, and yet I don't have this kind of doomer mentality towards the game.
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So tired if hearing people say Dead by Daylight is a party game.
SWFs wasnt even in the game on release.
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Well "Versus" in PvP mean the game IS competitve by nature
But feel free to don't trust me
Here, review on the Steam page of DbD, shall we read them togheter ? "Competitive multiplayer game" "concept for a competitive horror game" are they wrong too i guess ?
YOU can play as you want, you can dance around generators with your friends or do funny emote the entire game it's up to you but if i play to win well..i play to win in the sweatiest and dirtiest way possibile i can ( without breaking any rules of course )
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I'm glad to sound fun to you and yeah you're probably right i play terribly and i tunnel to win so..? What's your point ? I'm violating any BHVR rules ? I'm violating their code of conduct in the game ? I don't think so and, as long this is not against their rules ( BVHR rules, not survivors's fake rulebook) i'll keep play as i prefer. That's a terrible playstyle for you and you think i've a fragile ego and "attempt to fill that empty void caused by oh so many things wrong in their lives" ? Ok if you say so i don't care but if that's make you happy i'm happy as well
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Mario Party is technically a competitive game. Just because a game has a win condition doesn't mean the game is built around sweaty competitve play. EVERY game that involves multiple players is either going to be labelled Co-op or Competitive. You have to look at the game itself to know whether it's meant to be more geared towards fun rather than competition.
YOU can play however you want. The game gives you that freedom. The same way that survivors squads can bully killers into standing in a corner so they can do the gens with no resistence. It doesn't mean it's good for the game though, and it doesn't mean the game couldn't be better at maximizing fun for the playerbase overall.
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The problem is that you're trying to enforce the narrative where fun can't be competition and this should apply to everyone. In every game where there's a "verus" you have to expect there will be people tryin hard to win. To me competition IS fun
But my friend we're both right, the issue is to have only one single mode and we're both forced to play in the only mode we have so there are players like you who want a fun and casual relaxing match and people like me who want to have a fun and hard sweaty game and that's the problem. It's like going to a chess tournament where pro players and regual players are put togheter, what do you think it will happen ?
What we should ask is a "ranked mode" ( or tournament mode or championship mode ) and a "unranked mode" ( or training ground or fun mode ) so you can play in your enviroment and i can play in my enviroment but, as long only one game mode exist, we have to play as we prefer because, by design, is what they want
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What is it with you trying to psychoanalyse strangers? This isn't a one-time deal, either. I've seen you accuse strangers countless times of being egotistical, having mental health problems, or just stuff like the above. All because they played a game in a way you don't like. You don't know these people, you don't know their lives; stop trying to belittle strangers to make yourself feel better. If people here decided to psychoanalyse your repeating pattern of behaviour, how flattering do you think their conclusion would be? Would it find you kindly, you think?
There's a difference between disliking what people do in game and writing off said same people as wretched, broken individuals in need of hugs and pity.
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Reality does not work like that. You can't always just run in straight line.
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I'm not trying to enforce a narrative. I'm just adding my thoughts to a pool of other thoughts. I'm not telling anyone how they should feel, I'm simply offering my views so other people have the option to at least consider a different perspective.
I get that fun is subjective. So I would never bother arguing on an individual basis as there's nothing to argue when it comes to personal taste. When I speak about how I think the game should change, I'm looking at the game as a whole. The game could make changes that make it more fun for more casual players whilst maintaining a competitive identify. It's not impossible to engineer that.
If the solution is to simply make it impossible for killers to tunnel without changing the game in other ways to compensate, then no, it would be a bad idea. It's currently necessary in many situations. But if I was offered a deal (this is off the top of my head and not that well thought out) where I permanently gave up a hook state in exchange for hard tunneling early in the match to go (imagining a world where that cannot be exploited in any way), I'd probably take it. It would be healthier for the game, as casual survivors would have a better chance at maximizing their contribution to the match, and killers wouldn't need to sweat so hard to reach twelve hooks as they would only need nine. That's as objective as I can be with my perspective. Just focusing on the game's overall health and playability.
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I'd be fine with them removing tunneling if they gave killers some significant blanket buffs to compensate, which they'd never do. As it stands, yes, tunneling is generally incredibly unfun for most survivor players but it's kind of a necessity for most killers against a good survivor team.
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Usually players tunnel to have easy game without competion. Well if you do that every game is your goal 100 win streak or more? That's like only way to be competive. Most matches are easy to win no matter how you play but getting big win streak that's hard.
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I do hate tunneling myself, so I do always pursue a healthy survivor to have a fair and fun chase; Having an advantage before the chase even begins robs me off of the fun, you know? A healthy survivor plays differently than an injured survivor, killer-to-killer based, of course, as getting injured against the Spirit is no longer 50-50, as she does rely a lot on your cries in pain..
While playing as a survivor myself, I don't mind being tunneled.. As long as the rest of the team isn't hiding around and repairs generators or keep healing themselves. At that point, I'm glad that the killer keeps pursuing me as I keep running Off The Record with Decisive Strike 24/7. What I dislike is the proxy camping and camping, so the other survivors don't even unhook me and I don't get to play the match anymore.
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Lol, smack down! 👊🤸♂️
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Wouldn't it be great if they made all the killers viable at high levels and then allowed solo queue to actually communicate with each other? Would be so much better for everyone.
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Gotta do something to keep yourself occupied while doing the most boring thing in probably any modern game out right now.
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Would a game that was designed to be a party game release without any way of playing with your friends and not actually release said feature until after months and months of complaining and begging for it?
Here's a better question. I think most people here would agree that mario party or mario kart are "party games"
So, do you think that Mario Party or Mario Kart match you using MMR against people "of your skill level" Or do you think that they probably just throw you into a match with the first people it can find?
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This is actually the only thing that will ever close the gap between solo and swf.
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A bit late for me. Is there a way to turn VoD for your Streams on?
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