Worst perk variety DBD has ever had?
Do you think it is now, or back in the days of BT/DS/Dead Hard? I want to say any given match half or more than half of the survivor team usually has made for this, resilience, and windows and it's pretty much the autopilot looping build
BHVR: We don't want there to be a meta
*introduces most meta perk in the last 5 years*
Comments
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DBD Community always was very meta heavy. I have never seen a community that blindly abides metas (and content creators) that much at all. The only thing that keeps it in check is that the cost of unlocking perks so high that many get discouraged.
Hell even games like R6 Siege aren't that meta heavy in my experience even in ranked.
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It certainly changed to the worse with the healing nerfs and subsequent addition of Mft. But its still not as bad as the pre 6.1 second chance meta.
Before the perk overhaul, the top meta perks (DS, DH, BT, IW, UB) had such an insanely high pick rate that you encountered full-meta lobbies in like 4 out of 5 games. And in the remaining game, there would still be one or two survs with full-meta. You would have to expect DS, DH and BT from everyone.
With the current stay-injured meta, full-meta lobbies are luckily (still) relatively rare (at least with randoms), and you can actually encounter some pretty diverse builds from time to time.
So no, not the worst variety DBD ever had, but it definitedly got worse with Mft.
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For the record, BHVR have literally never said they don't want there to be a meta, and have said explicitly that they're well aware a meta is going to form because it's the nature of online gaming. I'm not even sure where you got that from, honestly.
But, to answer the question, I wouldn't say either way when the worst perk variety was, but I do think it's better now than it used to be. I do personally see more variety, especially from survivors, but even disregarding that, there's more viable perks now compared to before, so the situation's improved from that front too.
As annoying as some specific perks/combos are right now, I'd also take this meta over the meta pre-6.1.0 as well. It's less aggravating, at least to me- even if for no other reason than that DH for distance is dead and gone, lol.
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I think it's really bad, on both sides. I'm tired of Resilience and MFT and Windows and Adrenaline. I'm tired of Pain Res and PGTW and Sloppy and Lethal.
This game is much more interesting when you're experiencing and interacting with a wide variety of perks. When it's the same thing over and over, it definitely feels like it, and it's boring.
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Nevermind...
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more viable perks? On killer end? there is barely any buffs to killer perks. killer's meta are still stuck in using game-delay perks. pain res/jolt/sloppy is what you see on most m1 killers. for killers that do not have good synergy with jolt+sloppy, you see nerfed pop goes weasel+corrupt.
variety for survivor has improved but not really for killer.
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That's 100% BHVR fault. We have 400+ perks but only few of them are use full, all the other perks are pure trash and no one will ever use them ever. I'm not even talking about being meta perks or op or else, but the pools of viable perks on both side is very small. Why on earth i should use "territoral imperative" "Hex : Lullaby" "Deathbound" or stuff like that ? Instead of a new killer every 3 months they should rework at least half of the perks every 3 months ( but yeah no money so it won't ever happen )
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Nothing can rival the gen-kick era:
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Perk variety is nowhere near as bad as pre 6.1 meta and even the following gen kick meta for killers
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reminds me of terrible times, especially eruption
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I'm still traumatized... Kick and leave... No chase... Games would last 30 mins... Can't interact with anything cause of incapacitation... Hoh...
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Took way too long for someone to mention this
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This has always been the case. But that is on BVHR - many Perks are simply not really useable or even worse versions of other Perks.
Even if we have way more Perks which are strong, there would be a Meta, but it would not be as extreme as it is right now.
IMO it is even worse on Killer (people always bring up the stale Survivor-Meta). But I think running 3+ Slowdowns each Match when there is a chance of more variety (because some Perks work really good on some Killers, Killers have more diversity in their gameplay and also the Perks they can use) is worse than the stale Survivor-Meta. (In a sense that even if a Perk is really, really good on a Killer, players like to put on Slowdown instead because it is the easiest way to play)
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That's only true if you assume both that game-delay perks are 100% essential, and that there aren't very many viable game-delay perks.
Since neither of those things are true, there are a lot of viable perks on the killer side. Just recently we had Furtive Chase buffed to genuinely be usable, and before that I can recall Gearhead becoming a genuinely solid perk, among others. There aren't that many perk buffs coming for either side, but killers are getting some pretty great ones, at least recently.
I'm not making a claim as to what most killer players are actually running, to be clear. I'm talking about what can be run, in terms of what's viable.
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i would consider gen-delay perks as essential, that is the problem. your not suppose to rely on perks. they're suppose to be optional choices where you can run gen defence but you don't need it to be competitive. that is something that they said in 6.1.0 that killer should not be required to run gen defence.
Guess what majority of killer are running? Gen defence.
Just recently we had Furtive Chase buffed to genuinely be usable, and before that I can recall Gearhead becoming a genuinely solid perk, among others.
Furtive chase is still not very good. Sure it went from F-tier perk to like usable c-tier perk but it is obsession perk that gives situational undetectable and situational speed. if they improved old design of the perk then it would be worthy of obsession status. Gearhead is suppose to be like discordance where you get dynamic information to gain information to bounce from one survivor to the next through hit & run. it went from perk that was F-tier to C-tier. it is usable but it is not that good.
Ultimate weapon and Nowhere to hide are solid recent perks. killers still have ways to go when it comes to gaining good stealth perks, instant down perks and strong chase perks. I guess for chase, there is coup the grace which is ok but then there is.... rapid brutality. I am still playing around with rapid but.... I just don't see much value out of it. the healthy survivor just seem to always make it to a loop which makes question what is the point of the perk? The speed boost alone seems to get them to any loop on the map. Until they provide more solid different options for killer, it is unlikely your going to be seeing any killer perk variety beyond gen defence. that is why i said that base-kit gen defence might be needed for killers to even attempt to change their builds along side buffs to different perks.
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It was worse before 6.1.0 (and for killer, during the gen-kick meta) than it is now.
It’s pretty bad right now too though.
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To start, gen delay perks are not essential, the game's just easier with them. That's fine, of course, but they aren't the same thing.
But what I'm more interested in talking about is that the goalposts have shifted here, and I don't think it was done on purpose, so it's worth calling attention to. We've shifted from talking about viable perks, to talking about the best perks- see how we're talking about Furtive Chase and Gearhead, both agreed on by the two of us as usable C-tier decent perks. That means those perks are viable, which promotes my point that there's a lot more variety available to killer players regardless of whether they're choosing to act on that.
The real reason that you're going to see gen defence over-represented in a lot of matches is because it is simply easier to play the game with them. It's not required, you can get very potent slowdown on gens from any perks if you're playing well but especially chase and info perks, but doing that is noticeably harder so people generally don't bother. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it is the reason, not that those perks are required and not that all the other perks aren't viable.
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That means those perks are viable
I would not consider C-tier perk as viable. I would consider C-tier perks as perk that trigger useful effect but are not good. What I would consider a viable perk is a perk that is B-tier or higher.
The real reason that you're going to see gen defence over-represented in a lot of matches is because it is simply easier to play the game with them. It's not required, you can get very potent slowdown on gens from any perks if you're playing well but especially chase and info perks, but doing that is noticeably harder so people generally don't bother.
I disagree. gens with gen defence still fly too fast. the only aspect that improved is early game for killer. it is a lot better now compare to before but mid-game is still lacking for killer.
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That just means your definition of viable is too strict, though. Personally, I'd argue viable perks are "perks which will consistently raise your chance of winning, if used right". I'll grant that "using right" can often imply them being pretty niche in specific builds or on specific killers, but they're still viable in that context. Furtive Chase and Gearhead are easily contenders for that description; FC might require a little investment (The perk Nemesis is a great pairing with it, for example), but Gearhead just works and works well.
Gen speed as it is right now is dictated more by your own play than by your perks, in a lot of cases. As long as your macro play is good (keeping track of where people are, occupying many survivors at once, chasing into deadzones, etc), gens don't really fly unless the survivors brought crazy stacked toolboxes and such, which in my experience is relatively uncommon.
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The meta is always going to be the same no matter how much they try to change it.
Survivors will always have perks that help their longetivty, extend chase or speed up objective.
Killers will always have gen defense, tracking or alternatives to slowing survivors down (Sloppy or Plaything).
Everything else is just overlooked.
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IDK about worst per variety... There are good perks for all situations
Aura Reading... leads to chases
Chase perks... leads to downs and hooks
Gen defense perks.... leads to longer matches (for the most part)
Anti-healing... easier downs and hooks
So it's more like general perk builds do better then 4 similar perks
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Well... the current Killer-Meta is the most boring ever:
Corrupt, Deadlock, No Way Out, 4th perk of your choice, mostly Ultimate Weapon, Pain Res, STBFL, Bamboozle or Noed
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you need hook obsession to trigger effect and it costs two perks slots to use perk effectively. Now Nemesis and Furtive would be fair perk cost if it was reduced your TR permanent but it is not. it is just temporary undetectable trigger. After that you have consider how often your hook obsession. In some games, it might be 0 but let say you commit two perk slots. On average, your tunneling little bit with killer, your likely not going be doing 12 hooks. let just say your doing 5-9 hook. if half your hook are obsession hooks, you get to trigger this 4 times without super going out of your way to change the way you play.
two perk that give undetectable with much less conditions are Tinkerer and Trail of Torment. Tinkerer used to be decent 7/10 perk before it got weakened. Now it is like 5/10 perk. something average. Tinkerer triggers on generators and you get it 5 times automatically. Trail of Torment is a perk where when you kick a gen, you become undetectable as long generator regresses. it has 60 second cooldown. these perk are a lot easier to trigger to gain undetectable and because each of these perk are slot efficient. you will be undetectable for more often.
I am not saying furtive is useless or anything but it is like 3/10 perk for what was a 0/10 perk for stealth. While these perk are fun to use, the generator are too fast for killer to consider running fun perks over just running classic gen defence perks.
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In term of raw finding survivors, Ultimate weapon, BBQ and Nowhere to hide are like 9-10/10 perks when it comes to activating and showing where survivors are. This is ok because these are general perks. Gearhead is more specialized type of detection perk. It is the type of perk where you trigger it and you expect to get information for when survivor are on generator so you can detach chases and apply "gen pressure". The issue with this functionality of the perk 3 three-fold
1) there is no notification when this perk triggers. This makes perk hard to use because you need have hawk eyes to use it. It is hard to concentrate of chasing survivor and looking at general direction of gens to trigger the perk. Red aura with Red gens is hard.
2) it relies on survivors doing normal skill-check. skill-check are random and the duration of the perk is only 30 seconds. it is unreliable.
3) lastly, Gearhead gives tends to give information at "late-time". when you trigger other perks like BBQ, Nowhere to hide and Ultimate weapon, Their effects are immediate. With Gearhead, it is waiting game.
This perk is really useful for what it is trying accomplished for killer but it needs more QOL changes to make it easier to use, to give information immediately when it triggers so killer can act on it and to be less dependent on survivor.
What I would like for the perk to be more consistent is noise notification when it triggers and when it does trigger, it randomly shows a single survivor's aura that is on generator IF there is anyone on a generator. The second change would means that you get information immediately and you rely a little less on rng skill-checks for the perk to trigger.
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*introduces most meta perk in the last 5 years*
*and refuses to touch it for 4 months regardless of community's complaints since before the chapter was even released.*
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Never seen one? Have you ever seen MOBA communities? They start trashtalking to you if you don't follow the meta in those games. I've seen that happen even in begginer matches against bots.
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Nothing will ever rival survivors OG OP meta(with some CoH sprinkled in after that was added). I had to quit playing dbd in april 2022 because I was just so bored of playing against the same 5 perks on 4 survivors every game. I had 0 sympathy for survivors back then because of it. Called them bots with perks and that was true.
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I tried rapid brutality + Stbfl.
The outcome: it's the next loop, not the third in a row.
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I'm not trying to be rude in any way, but did they really say they do not want a meta? That is quite the task to accomplish.
In any game, players will always take the easiest path to victory, be it in an MMO (they will play OP jobs) or in this game, they will use the most powerful perks.
No matter what, they will always find them.
It seems like as long as perks will continue to be nerfed instead of buffed, and brought up to par, this will be a vicious cycle. I'm not a fan of it.
Now we have perk bloat, a ton of rather useless perks and a few solid ones that everyone uses.
Imagine if they never nerfed those other perks, but instead buffed killers perks or abilities, and allowed many fun combinations of perks for the opposite side.
I'll say this, playing against sloppy butcher non stop literally makes me fall asleep while playing. Never experienced that in a game before.
FFXIV does this every expansion and it makes me quit. They finally stopped and instead got rid of useless abilities and only keep useful ones. Or buffed useless abilities to make things more fun.
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I think there's a lot of different issues with perks now compared to 3-4 years ago. For killers some just synergize way to well with their power or get buffed and survivors seem to lack a lot of meaningful perks as only a few are pretty useful and there are a ton of niche use perks.
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I have been seeing a lot of the same perks on survivors lately. Pretty much every match I see 1-2 Deja Vu, 1-2 Kindred and 1-3 MFT. I honestly don't think I've had a single match where MFT wasn't being used since it's introduction. I also haven't gone a single match without seeing Deja Vu since its buff.
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not the old meta but og coh made me take a massive break as well. dark days of dbd
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Not surprising a lot of Survivors don't think healing if worth it now, they were use to having 100% self-healing rate for months and when the nerf came for healing, they just couldn't handle it anymore.
Newer Survivors wouldn't have been able to handle no basekit BT back in the day.
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The worst perk variety was during the 3 gen meta. Literally every killer was running cob/eruption/overcharge and a filler perk.
For survivors, the worst perk variety was very early in the games life cycle. You HAD to bring BT, so survivors were basically playing with 3 perk slots, and those 3 were usually ds/ub/dh
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Yeah, I was a hag main when CoH and God DH was added. Didn't take long for me to drop her after that. Nothing will ever be more frustrating than hitting someone and standing still as they dash forward a whole second later because they got 200 ping.
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I'm going to say perk diversity is worse now then it was in the past.
In the past meta perks were stronger but there was less overall perks. Meaning there wasn't a lot of overlap in what perks did so if you wanted to regress gens better, you ran pop bc it was the only option not because all other options were worse.
Now we have significantly more perks with many oerks having the same role as others and there's just clear winners. Diversity is just much weaker because there's far more perks going practically unused because they serve no purpose.
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The meta will never change, if the amount of actual good perks is like 5
they should buff at least 20-30 perks to become insanely strong, for both sides
then the meta will be unpredictable
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Killer players rely on them because they want easy wins not because they absolutely need them.
You don't NEED gen-delay perks. You don't NEED to tunnel. You don't NEED to camp.
Those who do it, do it because it's easier. It's easier to win if you immediately tunnel someone out and have 4 slow downs in your build.
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DBD community is meta heavy because most of non meta perks are too situational or directly trash, there are only a few underrated ones.
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Unpredictable or likely unbearable.
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It was certainly worse back in the day. For survivors, everyone had their exhaustion perk, usually DH, along with DS, UB and Adren or Iron Will. Throw in the occasional Prove Thyself and that was really it.
Killer was possibly even worse with Corrupt, Tinkerer, Ruin and Undying or Pop.
Yes obviously there were people who changed it up slightly or went full meme-build but this was the standard for most players for months. It's FAR better now, even with perks like MFT, Windows and Pain Res being mega-popular.
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why?
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A ton of perks, just like killers being buffed up to Adrenaline level as an example would be terrible to play against.
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The meta right now isn’t great, especially MfT and that multiple slow down is still the best strategy, but it’s WAY better than the past.
Eruption meta was probably the worst killer meta ever. Current killer meta is a lot more varied and going against full slow down isn’t as oppressive, even if it is still unfun verse. Eruption/CoB/Overcharge was just miserable watching gens regress while the killer avoided chasing anyone.
As for survivor, the Small Peepee (DS/UB) build plus Dead Hard was probably the worst meta. Literally removed any counter play to DS and Dead Hard was one of the most broken perks to ever exist. And this meta lasted a LONG time. MfT is poorly designed but I’ll gladly take that over the DH/DS/UB meta.
The meta is always going to get stale but as long as it isn’t overpowered I don’t mind. Only perk right now I think needs adjusting is MfT and Buckle Up, otherwise I’m ok with the meta.
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I dont agree
like I said before, if tons of perks were stronger, players would have to pick 4 perks among all strong perks therefore more variety and unpredictable matches
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Yeah maybe in the very low MMR where suvivors have no idea what they are doing
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If everything is OP, then nothing is OP.
On a more serious note, rather than this approach of nerfing a few perks at a time and watching the meta settle around the next strongest thing, they should take the bottom 20 perks on each side that can be boosted with easy number changes and buff them up to be in contention for meta usage. Obviously a lot of perks can't be helped this way but I think you can do enough to give a serious shake up to the meta. See where things fail and make adjustments as necessary. There will always be the "best" build for a given situation but the more choices you have, the more varied the builds will be.
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The problem with that is that if you want people to actually stop using meta tools, there are only two options: Buff everything to meta level (deeply problematic, see: release Circle of Healing), or nerf the top stuff.
Otherwise, you'll get an influx of good viable perks (Furtive Chase, Gearhead, Crowd Control, Claustrophobia...) and nobody will bother using them because their current builds work just as well as before and still work better than the newly-buffed alternatives.
I'm not personally saying I want them to do this, to be clear, I still want those bad perks buffed just so that they are available for me to use, but I do think it's a mistake to assume that'll do anything to the overall meta.
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An issue, perhaps the issue, with nerfing the top perks to be as weak as every other perk is that it’s going to further grow the power imbalance between roles (kill rate grows beyond 60%—and I’ll explain why in a moment). Nerfing perks without buffing anything is just going to highlight the fact that in this game survivors are totally perk-reliant, while killers have powers/abilities and base-kit mechanics that aren’t reliant on perks at all. So they’re less affected by perk nerfs that target both sides. Like if neither killers nor survivors had any of their current meta perks, or really any perks at all, one side edges out quite extremely. It would simply be too imbalanced. And this would lead to attrition that the devs don’t want (see Death Garden).
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I don't want people to stop using meta perks because they are nerfed into the ground (see Thana, also kind of CoH). I want to see small adjustments to problematic perks to keep them strong but not causing major issues from their usage while increasing the number of perks at that level of strength (as a side note, I really think that there are almost no problematic perks at this time.) Rather than being effectively forced to not use a meta perk because it's been turned to garbage, I'd like the option of running that perk or choosing something else equally as strong, but that allows for a different style or focus of play. If you have more options on hand, you'll have more variety just based on the different ways people would prefer to play.
The more you lower the average power level of perks, the more you limit the design space available for creative new perks.
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Yeah but how in the world do you make monstrous shrine or red herring without making them completely absurd or unfun to play against? Like if you make clown the same power level as wesker, how in the world would there be any gameplay left for the survivors? Some things in this game just don't have the design to be strong. Ofc there are some that are viable to be buffed to adrenaline level, but I simply don't have faith in bhvr to pick those correctly.
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